Hi,
I have been looking into installing booster pump because our water pressure at home (3 story home) is at 60 PSI (city limit) but the problem is when 2 taps are open at the same time or toilet will be flushed the water pressure goes down to 21 PSI and it takes time for it to go back to 60 PSI and its very annoying not to have pressure when 6 persons in the house hold.

I have been looking into a good booster pump with pressure tank and I spoke to a plumber and he seemed to think that this will solve the problem now the problem is that the plumber installed Aermotor shallow well jet pump with 5.3 liter pressure pump it's still not working as he said they need to change the pressure switch so I am still waiting.
My problem is that we initially spoke on a booster pump with pressure tank and that's not what he installed, He says it will do the job the same as a booster pump but from looking around and doing some phone calls I realized that the price difference between the booster pump and the shallow well jet pump is huge.
I feel I been cheated and I really need an advice from someone who knows the difference between the two and can tell me what he thinks before I let them change the pressure switch and also what will work better between the 2 pumps.
Regards
Avi

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Originally Posted by Avi s

Hi,
I have been looking into installing booster pump because our water pressure at home (3 story home) is at 60 PSI (city limit) but the problem is when 2 taps are open at the same time or toilet will be flushed the water pressure goes down to 21 PSI and it takes time for it to go back to 60 PSI and its very annoying not to have pressure when 6 persons in the house hold.

I have been looking into a good booster pump with pressure tank and i spoke to a plumber and he seemed to think that this will solve the problem now the problem is that the plumber installed Aermotor shallow well jet pump with 5.3 liter pressure pump it's still not working as he said they need to change the pressure switch so i am still waiting.
My problem is that we initially spoke on a booster pump with pressure tank and that's not what he installed, He says it will do the job the same as a booster pump but from looking around and doing some phone calls i realized that the price difference between the booster pump and the shallow well jet pump is huge.
I feel i been cheated and i really need an advice from someone who knows the difference between the two and can tell me what he thinks before i let them change the pressure switch and also what will work better between the 2 pumps.
Regards
Avi

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Good morning Avi,

At 60 PSI coming in to your house you don't have a pressure problem, (the average house pressure is 45PSI). It's not pressure that you lack but volume.
You didn't say but I'd bet the farm you have a older home with galvanized piping. Yours is the classic complaint, " When I'm in the shower and the toilet's flushed I get scalded." This is a dead givaway that the pipes can't carry enough water to supply all the fixtures when more the one is in use.
I'm amazed that your plumber attempted to patch the problem with a booater pump instead of correcting it by a repipe job. Please believe me when I tell you that all the pressure in the world won't stop a pressure loss if the pipes
Can't carry enough water to supply more then one fixture.
I place the blame squarely on your plumber. You should have been informed before you spent your money on a booster pump to boost pressure that's already sufficient to supply your house. My friend, you don't need more pressure, you have enough already, What you need are pipes large enough to supply the pressure you already have to the fixtures that need it.
My advice? Before you toss any more money on a useless project get a second opinion. Please keep me in the loop on this and let me know what turns up. Gross incompetence by someone in my trade always makes my blood boil. Regards, Tom

Hi Tom,
I will try to address regarding what you wrote,
This was a 2nd opinion from a plumber and both said the same so I am confused.

The house is 36 years old and from what I understand the pipes are coper and it's 1/4" all around the house, From the main (the city)I have 1/2".
Let me try to explain again the problem in the house: when the bathroom on the 2nd floor is on we can not use anything because there is no pressure and if we flush the toilet by mistake the person that taking a shower will scream that he has no water and it will take couple of minutes to go back to 60 PSI.
The first plumber checked the pressure of the tap in the bathroom upstaires and while the gadjet is on he opened the water shower and the pressure went down to 21 PSI and only when we close one of them it takes few minutes to go back to 60 PSI.
So from what I understand from you it will not help to install the booster pump or the shellow well jet pump right?
Regarding the pipes they are behined walles (most of them) do you mean I need to change the pipes all over the house?
Please let me know.
Avi

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Avi s

Hi Tom,
I will try to address regarding what you wrote,
This was a 2nd opinion from a plumber and both said the same so i am confused.

The house is 36 years old and from what i understand the pipes are coper and it's 1/4" all around the house, From the main (the city)I have 1/2".
Let me try to explain again the problem in the house: when the bathroom on the 2nd floor is on we can not use anything because there is no pressure and if we flush the toilet by mistake the person that taking a shower will scream that he has no water and it will take couple of minutes to go back to 60 PSI.
The first plumber checked the pressure of the tap in the bathroom upstaires and while the gadjet is on he opened the water shower and the pressure went down to 21 PSI and only when we close one of them it takes few minutes to go back to 60 PSI.
So from what i understand from you it will not help to install the booster pump or the shellow well jet pump right?
Regarding the pipes they are behined walles (most of them) do you mean i need to change the pipes all over the house?
Please let me know.
Avi

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Hey Avi,
As I said your problem isn't a pressure problem. It's a volume problem. You have the pressure, 60 PSI coming into your house, (the average is 45PSI) your pipes just don't have the capacity to maintain that pressure when more then one fixture calls for it. I don't care how many plumbers you've asked. I speak from over 50 years experience in the plumbing trade and any plumber that's been plumbing for over six months will tell you the same thing. Let me give you the pipe sizes for water pipe per The Standard Plumbing Code book. These are the regulations we're held to in the US, ( you ARE in the United States aren't you?)
You say your pipes are-- from the water meter to the house, 1/2" and then 1/4" inch pipes in the rest of the house. UNBELIEVABLE!
Plumbing code calls for-- from the water meter to the house, 3/4" to 1" PVC,(not less then 3/4"). In the house the house main remains at 3/4" with a 1/2" branch serving every three fixtures with no more then three fixtures off a 1/2" branch, (that's so you won't get scalded when someone flushes). Any thing under a 3/4" house main or a 1/2" branch is outlawed. One more time! YOUR HOUSE PIPING IS WOEFULLY UNDERSIZED AND ALL THE BOOSTER PUMPS IN THE WORLD WILL NOT CHANGE THAT FACT! If you wish to correct this you must repipe the house with the correct size pipes. Your plumbers are giving you misinformation and charging you for pressure that you already have and don't need.

Hi Tom,
I was in my office when I wrote I am home and I went to check for the pipe size,
First I am in Canada and from the main I have 3/4 and then it changes to 1/2 for the house (I am sorry for the mistake).
I really appriciate your help. Now that we know the size of the pipes What do you think will solve my pressure problem? Is it still the pipes?

Regarding the pump I have not paid yet because as I said they need to change the pressure switch and they are waiting for it,I have already told them that what they installed is not what we agree on in the first place and they said that they will make sure I will be pleased with the results (that remains to be seen).
Let me know what you think?
Avi

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Avi s

Hi Tom,
I was in my office when i wrote I am home and i went to check for the pipe size,
First i am in Canada and from the main i have 3/4 and then it changes to 1/2 for the house (I am sorry for the mistake).
I really appriciate your help. Now that we know the size of the pipes What do you think will solve my pressure problem? Is it still the pipes?

Regarding the pump i have not paid yet because as i said they need to change the pressure switch and they are waiting for it,I have already told them that what they installed is not what we agree on in the first place and they said that they will make sure i will be pleased with the end results (that remains to be seen).
Let me know what you think?
Avi

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Hi Avi,

Do you have more then a total of three fixtures in your house? If the answer's yes then your system's undersized.
The fact that you lose pressure when you open more then one faucet just screams LOSS OF VOLUME. As a rule when we have this problem it's galvanized plpes that have built up so much rust on the pipe walls that a 3/4" pipe has the opening the size of a pencil. Do the math. The average house pressure's 45 PSI in houses that are piped to code with no problem. You have 60 PSI, (15 pounds more then the average home) and you have a problem with pressure falling off when you open more then one faucet. Gee! What could it be? Why do people with less pressure coming into their homes have no problems while you with 15 psi more they have coming into your place have all sorts of pressure problems? What could be different about your place then theirs? Oh! I know! Their homes are piped to code while yours is not. If you boost 60 pounds of pressure that's putting a strain on your entire system. I hope you hang in there long enough with me so that when they boost your pressure and you still have the same problem I want to know what the excuse will be this time. By the way. You now have 60 PSI entering your house. Just how far do they plan on cranking it up? Cheers, Tom

Hi Tom,
What you say sounds very right! Tomorrow they are suppose to come and change the pressure switch and then will see what happens.
From what I understands they are adding 20 - 30 PSI more then what the city gives me.

Any how Thank you so much for all your help,I will let you know what happens tomorrow once it's changed.

Cheers , Avi ;)

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Originally Posted by Avi s

Hi Tom,
What you say sounds very right! Tommorow they are suppose to come and change the pressure switch and then will see what happens.
From what i understands they are adding 20 - 30 PSI more then what the city gives me.

Any how Thank you so much for all your help,I will let you know what happens tommorow once it's changed.

Cheers , Avi ;)

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Thanks Avi,
I don't mean to get on your case but it frustrates me when I see plumbers diagnose a plumbing problem incorrectly when the answer's right in front of their noses. Let me know. B oosting the pressure won't give you more volume so this oughta be fun to watch. Don't tell them but here's what I think will happen. You will have 90 PSI when you open a faucet OK but when the volume falls off you'll be faced with the same problem. To make a water system work you have to have both pressure and volume. I'll wait on the results. Regards, Tom

Hi Tom,
Here is the update, the guy just came to change the pressure switch and then asked me to open couple of taps on the 2nd floor (he was in the basement) it's started to show more pressure coming out from both faucets but then he asked me to close it, I was wondering what happened then he came and said that the motor is heating up and he had to close it, Then left.
I received a phone call saying the plumber will come back with the technician and they will not leave until everything will work.
So were back to square one, I think that the pressure was building up because the pipe is clogged has you said and with the over pressure it made the motor heat up.
What do you think?
Avi

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Avi s

Hi Tom,
Here is the update, the guy just came to change the pressure switch and then asked me to open couple of taps on the 2nd floor (he was in the basement) it's started to show more pressure coming out from both faucets but then he asked me to close it, I was wondering what happened then he came and said that the motor is heating up and he had to close it, Then left.
I received a phone call saying the plumber will come back with the technician and they will not leave until everything will work.
So were back to square one, I think that the pressure was building up because the pipe is clogged has you said and with the over pressure it made the motor heat up.
What do you think?
Avi

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Hi Avi,
What do I think?
Let's see, Laurel and Hardy, Abbot and Costello, Cheech and Chong, Take your pick. I think your plumbers are a comedy team and are in the wrong business. How long has this comedy show been going on anyhow?
Save all my posts and at the end when everythings said and done show them to your "floor show troupe". When are they going to snap to the fact that your pipes just aren't big enough to handle the demand put upon them?

Avi, I got to thank you. Yours is one of the more "fun" complaints that I get. You're bringing a smile to these withered old chops. Thanks!! Tom

Hey Tom
I am glad you are enjoying this I am beginning to enjoy this too and I can't wait to see what they will come up with now

Though I need to know if you think that there is any danger of the pipes to explode or any danger at all while they re-try to fix it or what ever it is they will try to do as I have kids and I am not willing to take chances and I will stop this show now.

Thanks, Avi


:D

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Originally Posted by Avi s

Hey Tom
I am glad you are enjoying this i am beginning to enjoy this too and i can't wait to see what they will come up with now

Though I need to know if you think that there is any danger of the pipes to explode or any danger at all while they re-try to fix it or what ever it is they will try to do as i have kids and i am not willing to take chances and i will stop this show now.

Thanks, Avi


:D

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I don't think your pipes will explode, but I am concerned that they propose to run twice the normal pressure in your system. This just has to put a strain on joints, faucets, or anything that holds back or shuts off pressure. Please! Please keep me in the loop on this. I don't get too many chuckles on this job. And I'm glad you're developing a sense of humor about this also. Cheers, Tom

Hi Tom,
Here is an update,
The 2 guys came and fixed it but it's still not giving the pressure I get a lot of dirty water coming in so were back to square one.
Then the manager came and looked, he says the proble is the volume as you said but none of them can understand why it will be blocked because everything is coper can you let me know what you think?

I have asked for estimation to change pipes from the basment do you think changing the pipes will solve the problem?

I have to say that they did not charge me a anything and they will probebly remove the pump but at no cost to me..
Any input?
Avi

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Avi s

Hi Tom,
Here is an update,
the 2 guys came and fixed it but it's still not giving the pressure i get a lot of dirty water coming in so were back to square one.
Then the manager came and looked, he says the proble is the volume as you said but none of them can understand why it will be blocked because everything is coper can you let me know what you think?

I have asked for estimation to change pipes from the basment do you think changing the pipes will solve the problem?

I have to say that they did not charge me a anything and they will probebly remove the pump but at no cost to me..
Any input?
Avi

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You had to have two plumbers and their manager that were on site and on the job to come to the same conclusion that I came to setting in front of my computer? After how long on the job attempting to figure out the obvious? UNBELIEVABLE!
What's happened is that in messing around your pipes and changing this and trying that they disturbed minerals that have built up on your pipe walls and the entire system needs to be flushed.
You've asked, "I have asked for estimation to change pipes from the basment do you think changing the pipes will solve the problem?"
If you mean repiping the house to conform to code, the answer is yes.

Let me address this; "Then the manager came and looked, he says the proble is the volume as you said but none of them can understand why it will be blocked because everything is coper can you let me know what you think?"

You're not blocked, (unless the debris they dislodged clogged your aerators)
The problem is,( and always has been) loss of pressure and volume due to undersized pipes. What's so hard to figure out about that??
I've changed my mind. Instead of the two plumbers acting like Larrel and Hardy, Abbot and Costello or Cheech and Chong. A new comedian has been added to the act. The manager made them , "The Three Stooges", Larry, Curly and Mo.
When you find yourself in the middle of a situation like this you can do one of three things. (1) and complain, (2) Break down and cry, or(3) see the humor in all of this and laugh like hell. I hoipe you've picked door number three. Keep me informed, You have the "wackiest" situation going that I've ever had in all the more then 5 years I've been a expert on three plumbing sites. I feel great sympathy for your situation but for my own pleasure I hope it never ends. Cheers and keep smiling! Tom