Some of you know me, and know that I am a public school teacher. However, on weekends I've taken a part time job as a bouncer at a couple of nightclubs. Boring, really. At least most of the time.

Anyway, the topic came up concerning the likelihood of terrorist attacks in crowded nightclubs, and whether it was a credible enough possibility to be taken seriously. My written response to the owner read thusly:

I definitely think that the US should begin pulling its collective head from the sand and begin seriously considering the possibilities/probabilities of terrorists in nightclubs.

Having a background in CT (counter-terrorism) from my years of working for dear ol' Uncle Sam, I know that the best practices to combat terrorism are PROactive, not REactive. In other words, don't wait for a tragedy to occur before you implement some precautions. Here in Texas, we call that "closing the barn door after the horse ran off."

I know that in many of the overseas places I went to, metal detectors at the doors were simply a matter of course. Yes, it is incovenient (especially at punk/metal bars). There were always a couple of guys by the detectors whose sole function was to assist those patrons who had set off the detectors. That way, the lines keep moving smoothly and any problems can be solved at the door. Of course, those places always had men armed with shotguns or submachine guns by the entrance, as well. In addition, there more other men roaming the club who were not identifiable as staff who were carrying concealed weapons. This was simply a way of life for the patrons, and no one seemed the least bit put out by it.

Similar measures should be implemented in the US. Not only to protect patrons from terrorists, but to also decrease general and gang violence, as well. I should add that armed security could quite possibly cause more problems than it would solve, at least at this time, and so should receive a great degree of thought and evaluation on the part of the owner. And as always--federal, state, and local laws must be adhered to.

Metal detectors, cameras, and the like would be of some deterrence to those wishing to cause mass carnage, and should be seriously thought about.

Yes, it can be expensive. But how much is a human life worth? No one should have to die simply because they wanted to have a couple of drinks and dance for a night.

Am I over the top on this one, or do you agree?

I don't disagree, but I think parking a car laden with explosives near a night-club would be more likely. As was attempted in London.

I fully agree . It hasn't happened here... yet . But Americans have been victims of night club attacks overseas ,and the largest single attack on Australians occurred in a night club in Bali .

While I agree more needs to be done to protect our society, finding the funding and the necessary manpower to monitor the cameras, in a manner that would prevent an attack, seems almost insurmountable.

We could follow the example set by Israeli defense, personally I don't it's necessary at the present time.

There are not-so-subtle reminders of the conflict, such as the metal detectors or security guards in front of restaurants and bars, or the armed bodyguard who accompanied us on our tour of Jerusalem.
Other reminders are even more in your face.
We were subjected to a 15-minute interrogation at the airport in Eilat, in southern Israel, after spending the weekend in neighboring Jordan. The young, bespectacled security official was robotic and driven in his questioning. He asked to see a copy of my husband's invitation to his conference. The full names of anyone we knew in Israel. More and more questions, raising suspicions that started to make me feel guilty.
"Did you give anyone your e-mail or phone number? Did anyone want to stay in contact with you?" He had us pegged for naïve travelers who could become the tool of terrorists.
He even went through our digital photos, stopping at a picture of a little boy, holding a baby goat. "Who is this?"
"It's a Bedouin," I snapped. "We don't have his contact information."
In the same calm tone, he told me not to become angry. Later I realized it was a necessary part of traveling in Israel, as a safety precaution. Ironically, we didn't have to throw away our water bottles or take off our shoes when we passed through the security gate -- which made me wonder at the effectiveness of U.S. policies at airports.

Understanding the many worlds of modern Israel / Meeting its people, exploring its history is first step to comprehending the conflict

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Am I over the top on this one, or do you agree?

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Let's see.

The Dolphinarium attack in Tel Aviv.

The Sbarros Pizzaria attack in Jerusalem.

Varius pubs, galeries, museums and casinos in France bombed in the 1980s.

Bombing of Fraunces Tavern in New York City in 1975.

Bombing of the Schubert Theater in Chicago in 1979.

Bombing of the Centenial Olympic Park in 1996.

Berlin discothèque bombing in 1986.

Suicide bombing of the Maxim Restaurant in Haifa in 2003.

Park Hotel Passover bombing in Netanya in 2002.

The Matzah restaurant bombing in Haifa in 2002.



No, I'd say that your concern is based on credible histoical evidence.

Elliot

If you know anything at all about how Jihadists operate, you know that they scope out potential targets and plan an attack accordingly... ***easily sidestepping*** any preparation put in place. The guys planning are intelligent guys, college degrees, physicians, and so forth. The cannon fodder carry out their plans.

It has been INTELLIGENCE / ESPIONAGE and local POLICE WORK that has prevented terrible Jihadist bombings!!

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Originally Posted by kindj

Some of you know me, and know that I am a public school teacher. However, on weekends I've taken a part time job as a bouncer at a couple of nightclubs. Boring, really. At least most of the time.

Anyway, the topic came up concerning the likelihood of terrorist attacks in crowded nightclubs, and whether it was a credible enough possibility to be taken seriously. My written response to the owner read thusly:


Am I over the top on this one, or do you agree?

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Hi Dennis-

First off I think we should pay our teachers more so they don't have to be part time bouncers in night clubs. Both of my parents were teachers, as was my grandmother. In addition my father was also on the school board, the president on a local hospital board, and had extra work to supplement his income. Anyway back to the subject, when 9/11 was occurring I thought for sure we (Las Vegas residents and tourists) were going to catch an airliner in the side of one of our Hotel/Casinos. Vegas has some of the largest hotels in the US. Another prime target could had been the Hoover Dam. So I'm thinking we can never have enough security measures in place. The problem is how to streamline the measures so that the public doesn't become impatient and at the same time understand this is for their benefit. Since your statement was written opinion, I think what you have suggested is not that over the top. Well OK! Maybe the sub-machine gun part. Next go around try to write using less words. In others words, cut through the fat and get to the meat. If their interested in what you've written they'll ask for seconds.


Bobby

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Yes, it is incovenient (especially at punk/metal bars).

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LOL, yet another reason to forego that next piercing. Dennis, I'm with you man. It doesn't bother me one bit to take my shoes off at the airport, walk through metal detectors at the stadium or wait for my wife's purse to be searched at Seaworld. Nightclubs seem a no-brainer candidate for stricter security measures.

Steve

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

LOL, yet another reason to forego that next piercing. Dennis, I'm with you man. It doesn't bother me one bit to take my shoes off at the airport, walk through metal detectors at the stadium or wait for my wife's purse to be searched at Seaworld. Nightclubs seem a no-brainer candidate for stricter security measures.

Steve

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I’ve read accounts by American Slaves who where born into a fair and charitable Plantation owner who thought life there was OK.

I suppose my having been raised in the 50’s and experiencing the freedom of that age has something do with my discomfort towards losing its freedom.

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Originally Posted by Dark_crow

I’ve read accounts by American Slaves who where born into a fair and charitable Plantation owner who thought life there was ok.

I suppose my having been raised in the 50’s and experiencing the freedom of that age has something do with my discomfort towards losing its freedom.

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DC, I'm a boomer so I know a bit about 'freedom' and all, but I also understand I am not free to do just anything I want. I am free to fly on an airline when I meet their terms - buy a ticket, be there on time, follow safety procedures and adhere to the rules that govern them. In these examples I'm talking about a contractual relationship where someone offers a service or product, I agree to their terms and expect them to meet their obligations - or we are both free not to enter into that contract.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

DC, I'm a boomer so I know a bit about 'freedom' and all, but I also understand I am not free to do just anything I want. I am free to fly on an airline when I meet their terms - buy a ticket, be there on time, follow safety procedures and adhere to the rules that govern them. In these examples I'm talking about a contractual relationship where someone offers a service or product, I agree to their terms and expect them to meet their obligations - or we are both free not to enter into that contract.

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I think that is just fine, in fact I wish there were more of you out there that are willing to give up freedoms; particularly some of the Terrorist. What I hate fiercely is that you are willing to give up my freedoms for your sense of security.

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Originally Posted by Dark_crow

I think that is just fine, in fact I wish there were more of you out there that are willing to give up freedoms; particularly some of the Terrorist. What I hate fiercely is that you are willing to give up my freedoms for your sense of security.

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You'd have to be more specific DC, which of your freedoms am I willing to give up?

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

You'd have to be more specific DC, which of your freedoms am I willing to give up?

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I have no way of knowing which freedoms you or someone else is ready to give-up in the name of security, that’s what’s troubling…

However you say “It doesn't bother me one bit to take my shoes off at the airport, walk through metal detectors at the stadium or wait for my wife's purse to be searched at Seaworld.”

You did agree with Dennis who said “metal detectors at nightclubs, Of course, those places always had men armed with shotguns or submachine guns by the entrance, as well. In addition, there more other men roaming the club who were not identifiable as staff who were carrying concealed weapons.”

At what cost increase in living does this get us?

You see we have become an air bag society that wants guarantees on everything that we buy. We want to be able to take everything back and get another one. We want a 401-k plan and Social Security; we want to sue for Doctors misdiagnoses, a crack in the pavement, a 6% return on the dollar; a guarantee for every thing imaginable…and we wonder why the true value of a dollar has been in a continual decline for 50 years; why a family now needs two incomes to get by on what one did in the past.

DC, why should it bother me to go through reasonable security measures to be able to enjoy myself at a Dallas Cowboys game? The freedom is in whether you want to contract with Jerry Jones and buy his product. He asks for his $75 ticket price, to not carry a gun into the stadium, endanger or disturb other fans and in return he puts on a show - hopefully a good one. You're free to enter into that contract or not. You don't have the right to go to an NFL game under YOUR conditions alone.

I don't want to be an "airbag society" any more than you do, but there has always been a cost to get or do what you want to get or do. If that cost is a metal detector at the stadium that's the cost you must pay if you want to contract with the team for an afternoon of entertainment... it has done nothing to jeopardize your freedom. You're still free to pay the price, watch it on TV or do something else. The nightclub thing is no different, if you want to go you agree to the contract... or have a glass of wine at home instead. It's not that difficult to understand DC, and it's nothing new or remotely recent.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

If that cost is a metal detector at the stadium that's the cost you must pay if you want to contract with the team for an afternoon of entertainment...it has done nothing to jeopardize your freedom.

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No, but it cost me for security I don't need, and someone else wants.

I just can’t make it any simpler that I have, if you don’t understand that when the cost of doing business goes up that cost is passed on to all consumers; whether it is free enterprise of government security, I suppose you never will.

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Originally Posted by Dark_crow

No, but it cost me for security I don't need, and someone else wants.

I just can’t make it any simpler that I have, if you don’t understand that when the cost of doing business goes up that cost is passed on to all consumers; whether it is free enterprise of government security, I suppose you never will.

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DC, you needn't worry about me understanding your point, but you seem to think that cost is because of my willingness to pay it as opposed to evil terrorists threatening our very existence. A metal detector and a few extra minutes is very low price to pay for your life.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

DC, you needn't worry about me understanding your point, but you seem to think that cost is because of my willingness to pay it as opposed to evil terrorists threatening our very existence. A metal detector and a few extra minutes is very low price to pay for your life.

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I tend to agree. I'll spend a little more time entering a facility, but that's only going to make the occupants safer once inside. The larger concern is the bozo that wants to blow up the whole block. Me going through a metal detector isn't going to stop that.

If we had cameras on every street corner in America, any public threat would have to be identified as it occured, or we'd be watching results rather than providing protection.

That's why I believe we need to keep the bad guy's, whom ever they happen to be at the time and where ever they happen to be, reeling back on there heels. A classic example of a good defense is a good offense.

If you disagree, either you don't believe me, or I'm just not explaining it right...

Hello Dennis:

Frankly, most right wingers would solve the problem by closing down the bar, so I think your solution is a good one.

I guess graffiti is a problem again, here. The right wingers solution is to make it illegal to buy spray paint. Bwa ha ha ha.

excon