I am planning on running grounds to my upstairs plugs that are currently K&T with the two hole groundless plugs.

Question is, can I run several of the grounds into a centrally located j-box and then just run one larger ground back to the panel?

I can't imagine running a separate wire for every receptacle back to the panel. My panel doesn't have enough ground lugs to accommodate all of them. Actually, I'm not sure I'm going to do all of them. Maybe just the ones where I have ground critical equipment installed.

Also, should the wire be the bare type wire, or the green insulated wire?

Thanks to any and all... you guys are very helpful.

Your plan to install a separate equipment grounding conductor to each existing ungrounded outlet box is not allowed by the National Electric Code.

Without getting into all the details of why, one simple reasoning is if you can run a ground wire to each outlet, then you should be able to run new cable that contains an equipment ground, and abandon the K&T.

I am sure this is not the answer you wanted to hear, but it is the correct answer.

Should you decide to rewire and the rooms are bedrooms, you may also be required to use Arc Fault protection devices. This will be up to the local inspector. You will be applying for a permit, correct?

Doing it right may not be as bad as it sounds. Likely everything is assessable except going up through the walls. Removing the tube should leave a hole modern 12-2 with ground will fit through. Use the old wire to pull the new wire in. Cut about 8'' of the jacket off the cable. Cut 2 wires off at staggered points. Strip a couple of inches of the third wire and make a secure loop twisting it to hold. Strip the end of the old wire, and pass it through the loop in the new. Twist it into a loop. Now starting at the uncut jacket, wrap electrical tape around everything forming a smooth, slick taper over the entire joint. Doing one section at a time, you should be able to pull the new wire in where the old one was. You should have a helper, one pushing while the other pulls. You may still have to cut a few holes in the wall here and there.

Tkrussell, thank you for the reply.

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Without getting into all the details of why, one simple reasoning is if you can run a ground wire to each outlet, then you should be able to run new cable that contains an equipment ground, and abandon the K&T.

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Yes, I've thought of that, but the problem with running new cable is the lack of enough spaces in the panel to handle it. What I was going to do is just punch a hole through the bottom plate for each receptacle and run the ground wire from there. Unfortunately, the existing receptacles are on circuits with some lights, so I can't just remove the old circuits from the panel to make room for the new ones. I have a flat pitch roof, so there is not much in the way of attic access.

I recently upgraded my panel to a 200A panel, but it is filling up rapidly with my basement remodel, which includes a small kitchen, bath, bedroom and living room. Plus a sunroom that was added last year.

Maybe I should have put in a 400A panel. :eek: :o

Labman, removing the old wire would require me to nearly destroy all of the sheetrock on the walls to gain access to it. I have seen some of the old wire during some past remodeling, and it is attached to these porcelain knobs which are nailed to the studs. The wire cannot be pulled loose from them without removing them from the studs.

Thanks guys for trying. I guess I will have to take a few days and rethink my situation.

Randy

You may have a 200 amp service, but how many circuits are in the panel? 42 circuit is the maximum size 200 amp panel available. Simply going to a 400 amp service is not the answer,why have all that horsepower with no need for that kind of amperage. Need to know how many circuits total in your panel to advice further on this.

Yes a flat roof with little attic space is a problem. There are other ways of snaking in wiring thou. But it is not necessary to add several circuits for a few outlets, How many outlets need to be rewired? Probably most can be fed with one or two circuits. And no reason you cannot refeed the outlets and leave the lights on the K&T wiring. You should be able to squeeze a couple of circuits out of your new panel.

To get new wiring to outlets on an upper floor, you may need to be creative to avoid ripping out the sheetrock. You can remove the wood baseboard to install the horizontal runs outlet to outlet. Find a location that a minor amount of drywall can be removed, or even in a closet that is stacked above another on the lower floor to get the wiring down to the basement.

To avoid any fishing of wires, you can install a complete new surface wiring system. A popular system is under the brand name Wiremold. Very easy to install, and even thou is sits on the surface, it can be painted, and is not terrible to look at left as is.

Or you can do a combination of fishing and Wiremold. A strong knowledge of wood framing is beneficial to help with fishing wires. Since I have years of experience, I have fished wires in places you would never know how I did it. Yes sometimes you do need to make a small hole in the finish surface here and there, but after patching and painting you will never know.

I am sure there are some DIY books and info on the net that can show you how to fish some areas. This is not impossible. If I can fish wires in a 1700 circa 20 room mansion on the Historical list,that George Washington slept in, really, no kidding, without any damage at all, you should be able to to do this. And believe me, when they built a house in 1700, they did not use plain two x fours. Massive chestnut beams were everywhere.

You really need to consider rewire your outlets properly. Get back and let us know how you will proceed.

My reply is just related to your flat roof access problem and how I dealt with it. My house is an old farm house with an addition. The addition is on a slab with a flat roof. For those 2 reason it was real stupid for them to locate the 200amp breaker box in this part of the house, but unless I wanted to move it, I had to learn to deal with it. The house didn't have central air when I bought it and I needed to add it, but unless I wanted to run the conductors outside the house, I had to figure out how to get to the box. I came up with this solution that worked real well for me. From the room, in the old part of the house, next to the addition, I opened a small hole into the small attic area of the flat roof. I then shoved 1/2" cpvc pipe through the opening to just above the breaker box. I ran a 'wire pulling snake' through the cpvc pipe. At the end above the breaker box I hooked a 'pulling sock' (a Chinese finger torture type of devise for pulling cable). I secured #2 service cable to the pulling sock. I then pulled the cpvc pipe, with the pulling snake still in it, back out in the direction from which I had shoved it in. While pulling the cpvc pipe and pulling snake out, I was pulling the #2 service cable in. Once I had this pulled into place I wired in the service cable to a 100amp sub-panel I had installed in the basement of the old part of the house. I then connected the other end to a 100amp 2pole breaker in the 200amp panel. From the sub panel I was able to run anywhere I needed to, and thus I was able to install the central air conditioning when I installed the new 90+ furnace. I also have room for future projects.
I hope this helps,
Doug