I have installed about 8 toilets to date. So know the basics well. And this is the third one in my parents home in a basement, on ceramic laid on a concrete floor. Aging, more flush, higher toilet etc. I installed last night a new American Standard Champion two piece comfort height elongated toilet. Floor is not even and have read the threads how to correct this and did exactly that last night. Biggest problem is I am leaking again on floor and will fix that with a new wax seal and re-install it but real problem source I believe is the bent steal Flange re: I cannot get it to bend down its black metal.

The Flange when I did this four years ago created same problem. The closet bolts pop out easy since the flange is now raised on both sides from improper installation 20 years ago or overtightening on original install. So two areas of flange are bent up right where closet screws should be snug. Nightmare. Bolts come up as tightened and you start over or screws are crooked. Last night right bolt came out so had to reinstall. Suspect wax seal did not hold well on second install. I tried to support screws with thin pressure washer on flange and some extra wax around screw.

The flange appears to be screwed in and I suspect its into concrete. DO I try and unscrew it and re-isntall -- how complicated? Or do I attach something that will give me better control of closet screws on top of old bent flange. Flange is flush with floor at least ceramic installation was clean around the opening and pretty flat. I used a standard wax with horned gasket so suspect that was standard size since everything fits toilet and sits on flange exactly where wax lands. Would I be better off using longer screws? And a synthetic seal?

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Originally Posted by handymeister

I have installed about 8 toilets to date. So know the basics well. And this is the third one in my parents home in a basement, on ceramic laid on a concrete floor. Aging, more flush, higher toilet etc. I installed last night a new American Standard Champion two piece comfort height elongated toilet. Floor is not even and have read the threads how to correct this and did exactly that last night. Biggest problem is I am leaking again on floor and will fix that with a new wax seal and re-install it but real problem source I believe is the bent steal Flange re: I cannot get it to bend down its black metal.

The Flange when I did this four years ago created same problem. The closet bolts pop out easy since the flange is now raised on both sides from improper installation 20 years ago or overtightening on original install. So two areas of flange are bent up right where closet screws should be snug. Nightmare. Bolts come up as tightened and you start over or screws are crooked. Last night right bolt came out so had to reinstall. Suspect wax seal did not hold well on second install. I tried to support screws with thin pressure washer on flange and some extra wax around screw.

The flange appears to be screwed in and I suspect its into concrete. DO I try and unscrew it and re-isntall -- how complicated? Or do I attach something that will give me better control of closet screws on top of old bent flange. Flange is flush with floor at least ceramic installation was clean around the opening and pretty flat. I used a standard wax with horned gasket so suspect that was standard size since everything fits toilet and sits on flange exactly where wax lands. Would I be better off using longer screws? and a synthetic seal?

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First off I need pictures of what you're talking about. You haven't given me any details. Pipe material? PVC? Cast iron? ABS? How are the flanges connected to the closet bend? Hint: They don't screw in. Steel flanges that are 20 years old? That would put them back in the 80's. We used cast iron or PVC flanges back then. I've never installed a steel flange or had occasion to change one out. Why would anyone install flanges that have slots so weak that they will "bend" up when you tighten up the closet bolts? Send me some pictures so I can better understand your problem. My addy is; [email protected] Head the post PLUMBING so it doesn't get lost. Regards, Tom

Definitely cast iron then. Will take digital camera and respond tonight. Pipe is black not sure if PVC and ABS but looks like ABS. Will get shot of bent closet bolt tracks. Stay tuned. Thanks.

Updates: I deinstalled new two piece champion toilet by american standard and cleaned up and removed new wax ring.

Picture shows two buckle points where screw would be to come through toilet bowl. I have a Super Ring that could be installed on top in concrete with concret screws. But after close examination in the 3 x 4 bend the installed flange is not even its just over 1/4 inch below ceramic floor in rear and just over 1/8 above on buckle points. And even to floor or below in between those points. It appears to be attached as ABS material but feels very hard. This is Canada by the way.

Check my picture in email from Richard T. I removed all loose material. Thoughts I have are to etch out the ceramic tile to allow a almost flush super ring install with cement screws into concrete but since I have two buckle points on current flange I would have to cut those two points out with dremel tool or hack saw to have a shot at a flat install less than 1/4 inch above floor level. Could shoot whoever did ceramic install and drain in the 80's.

I also saw at home depot flange extender with plastic foam and then abs type flange but suspect that would only put me higher than floor level and more for wood floors and soft tile installs above original flange.

When I remove the bowl tonight there was some water on ceramic and it showed that wax ring did not completely seal last night and might be due to fact had to lift and reinsert right screw at buckle point.

Other observations material is likely ABS flange, 3" hole into waste pipe and 4" wide floor opening. It was glued or cemented on hard to tell re: cement floor and ceramics around it. Normal house built in 1958 had cast iron from upstairs toilet but this was in basement in 80's and likely ABS its all black going down into waste hole and looks smooth.

Thoughts?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by handymeister

Updates: I deinstalled new two piece champion toliet by american standard and cleaned up and removed new wax ring.

Picture shows two buckle points where screw would be to come through toilet bowl. I have a Super Ring that could be installed on top in concrete with concret screws. But after close examination in the 3 x 4 bend the installed flange is not even its just over 1/4 inch below ceramic floor in rear and just over 1/8 above on buckle points. and even to floor or below in between those points. It appears to be attached as ABS material but feels very hard. This is Canada by the way.

Check my picture in email from Richard T. I removed all loose material. Thoughts I have are to etch out the ceramic tile to allow a almost flush super ring install with cement screws into concrete but since I have two buckle points on current flange I would have to cut those two points out with dremel tool or hack saw to have a shot at a flat install less than 1/4 inch above floor level. Could shoot whoever did ceramic install and drain in the 80's.

I also saw at home depot flange extender with plastic foam and then abs type flange but suspect that would only put me higher than floor level and more for wood floors and soft tile installs above original flange.

When I remove the bowl tonight there was some water on ceramic and it showed that wax ring did not completely seal last night and might be due to fact had to lift and reinsert right screw at buckle point.

Other observations material is likely ABS flange, 3" hole into waste pipe and 4" wide floor opening. It was glued or cemented on hard to tell re: cement floor and ceramics around it. Normal house built in 1958 had cast iron from upstairs toilet but this was in basement in 80's and likely ABS its all black going down into waste hole and looks smooth.

Thoughts?

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I got your picture. It's indeed a ABS flange. Have you considered repairing the flange instead of replacing it. To see repair kits click on; http://www.quickfixplumbingproducts.com/
Look over at the right hand side and check out RF-3200 and SAB-1000. Let me know what you think. Regards, Tom

The Super Ring I picked up is flat steel designed to go over current flange much like SAB-1000. I did see at home depot RF3200 type products. My question:

Should I cut out the two spots where the old closet bolts hit the buckle which would be about 1 inch on each side of current flange then repair? This would allow a more flush attachment of SAB-1000 or R3200 otherwise my current flange has a low point of just under 1/4 inch in the back and is just under 1/4 inch above the floor in the bulge points.

Placing a replacement plate on bulges is very uneven. Or should I assume just attaching something like RF3000 bends with gasket to accommodate uneven current flange surface. I would predict I would be in bulges then at least 1/2 inch above ceramic floor at closet bolt points.

Thanks again Tom this is really helping me size the job up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by handymeister

The Super Ring I picked up is flat steel designed to go over current flange much like SAB-1000. I did see at home depot RF3200 type products. My question:

Should I cut out the two spots where the old closet bolts hit the buckle which would be about 1 inch on each side of current flange then repair? This would allow a more flush attachment of SAB-1000 or R3200 otherwise my current flange has a low point of just under 1/4 inch in the back and is just under 1/4 inch above the floor in the bulge points.

Placing a replacement plate on bulges is very uneven. Or should I assume just attaching something like RF3000 bends with gasket to accomadate uneven current flange surface. I would predict I would be in bulges then at least 1/2 inch above ceramic floor at closet bolt points.

Thanks again Tom this is really helping me size the job up.

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The SAB-1000 goes UNDER the flange and not over it. As you can see by the picture the slot has already been cut out and removed and I would do the same with the parts that are buckled. Don't make the same mistake the original installer did and crank down too hard on the closet bolts when you set the toilet. Even though the replacement slots are metal rthey are still secured by the old ABS flange. Good luck, sounds like you're on your way. Tom

I am seeking the under the flange part now. Will post a response once I finish the job with observations and lessons learned. Thanks Tom.

I managed to install a product similar to Part # CFK 5000 from your last post. Re: when I sanded down the bulges from my last photo to you, I was below floor level by about 1/4 inch on average. So needs changed this to adding a .25 inch adaptor to come up just above floor level with extender adaptor including foam gasket Now I am about a little less than1/4 inch above ceramic floor but have the four concrete screws fitted through old flange and its tight pre-toilet install. I added gasket wax to foam below adaptor and created a seal as I installed four concrete screws to secure to old flange.

Some complications:

I believe the space Tom has increased between original flange and the top of the pipe. The emailed original photo I sent you would show the jagged edge where that might happen. I am going to email original shot with that area circled again now.

The screws hit concrete so I used flatheads which held well to old flange and concrete below. I used 1.75 inch concrete screws on first screw did not drill far enough so may have created a little pressue on old flange than I made hole deeper. Screws that came with extender where meant for wood floor and about 2 inches. I installed four screws flush to holes in new adaptor.

I did locate a kit similair to SAB1000 but the only opening I have is the open closet bolt spot. The concrete is flush against the old flange so I cannot put anything below it.

I have a secure sealed new flange on old flange but feel I have more space between old flange and waste pipe where the jagged edge is with old photo - looks like about 1/4 inch gap. Might have to photo this again to show you. Unfortunately I did not have digital camera with me but may go back at lunch tomorrow and take a quick photo. If this is not clear enough. I could likely re-install toilet now with new gasket and have a good tight fit but wonder about the space below old flange. Should I fill it with some material like plumbers putty, silicon, or Should I remove adaptor and cut old flange out and start over? On second thought I just printed last photo I sent you and definitely will go and reshoot this picture to show you specifics. Should post an update in about 5-6 hours and will post or email new picture. I am learning new stuff! But may have just created more work. Darn should have stuck with 1.25 inch concrete screws.

Richard

P.s. sorry this got a new life.

Seat looks the same to me re: original seat was already cracked but its all pipe at that crack level so no issue. Sent you update photo. So should work tonight on reinstall of toilet.

Also during great advice from Speedball I joined the keep media site and got the full version of the attached which provides tools, pictures and great advice on flange repairs. Combined with Speedballs knowledge the Internet is incredible! :)

http://www.keepmedia.com/pubs/Family...3/06/01/516863