Ask Me Help Desk - Untreated 2X6 on poured concrete pony wall (above ground)

Seeking confirmation that my / our understanding is correct.

Both of us have heard / understood that untreated (lumber yard lumber) is not to be placed (fastened down) on top of concrete.

The contractor placed a 2X6 (untreated) directly on top of a 6"W poured concrete wall with NO metal flashing between the lumber - concrete.

This is an exterior uninsulated (garage) 2X6 wall which will be finished with vinyl siding once completed. To be fair, the top of the poured concrete wall and the bottom plate (2X6) are at least 3' to 7' (grade drops along the 38' wall) above ground. The remainder of the home which rests on a poured concrete basement has pressure treated 2X6s between poured concrete walls & bottom plate (different contractor).

The wall was erected today while we were NOT here/home. The 16' attic / storage space floor joists have been installed from the home wall to the exterior wall. Tearing down and rebuilding the wall is probably not a realistic option. But, before MORE weight (OSB sheeting, upper level wall, roof rafters, roofing, etc.) is added it might be practical to 'lift' the plate (& wall) 1/2" to place flashing between the two surfaces? Of course the flashing would have to be notched where each tie down bolt /anchor extends out of the concrete and through the single bottom plate.

Should I / we 'insist' on the wall being demolished & rebuilt or 'request' / demand, that at minimum aluminum flashing be added somehow?

BTW, this is a rural area so there is no 'building code' / nor inspection that we can fall back on. Any links, cites, URLs, etc. would be APPRECIATED! Thanks

Thanks

Using treat material on a concrete or brick foundation is common practice and code, but lets just be totally honest here, what's the big question here is what is the main problem with having the untreated material where it is, in my opinion someone most likely said it will rott. It can but as long as your not getting water on it, it will be fine, yes you get some condensation from the brick or concrete but not enough to rott it away, having a treated board is just a preventive measure that has been adopted as code, just a good idea,

As for removing it, there's no need to tear anything down, the wall can be braced and the bottom plate cut out, and replaced, do keep this in mind, pick you battles carefully, remember the contractor you piss off is still building your house , and I assure you they do much better work when there happy,
I do understand you want things right, but in a house and all that can be done wrong, if that is it, your doing well... also they do make a treatment solution you can put on this untreated board, and the flashing isn't a bad idea

Quote:

Originally Posted by glavine

using treat material on a concrete or brick foundation is common practice and code, but lets just be totally honest here, whats the big question here is what is the main problem with having the untreated material where it is, in my opinion someone most likely said it will rott. it can but as long as your not getting water on it, it will be fine, yes you get some condensation from the brick or concrete but not enough to rott it away, haveing a treated board is just a preventive measure that has been adopted as code,, just a good idea,

as for removing it, theres no need to tear anything down, the wall can be braced and the bottom plate cut out, and replaced, do keep this in mind, pick you battles carefully, remember the contractor you piss off is still building your house , and i assure you they do much better work when there happy,
i do understand you want things right, but in a house and all that can be done wrong, if that is it, your doing well...also they do make a treatment solution you can put on this untreated board, and the flashing isnt a bad idea

Galvine,

Thanks for the response! My fault for failing to include more (sufficient) detail. Since the carport / garage floor (may or may not end up with a pull down door), even with a center drain installed can and surely will be wet at times. The top of the poured pony wall (on which the untreated wall plate rests) will be close ?4"? or possibly less above the final poured concrete floor. So, there seems real potential for moisture wicking / migration?

As to/for your suggestion to brace the wall and cut out the bottom plate then replace it, I failed to mention / explain there is only one horizontal 2X6 below the 2X6 wall studs so there is NO plate below the stud plate. I'm 'thinkin' they could brace the wall, place 2X8 under the ceiling (attic floor) joist, remove the hold down bolts and with hydraulic jacks, lift the wall say 1", enough to slide aluminum flashing between the concrete and the stud plate? At least they wouldn't have to remove every ceiling joist, and every wall stud then trim the studs 1 ½" if they were told to / had to / or chose to raise the wall and place a treated 2X6 under the stud plate/bottom then rebuild everything.

We understand and agree a happy contractor is a cooperative contractor, but he promoted our hiring him after the earlier con artist jerk who called himself a contractor made SO MANY mistakes (didn't place milled lumber on concrete) by pointing out he, the new/current contractor would do everything 'right'. Untreated wood on concrete as you acknowledge is NOT 'right.

THANKS!

Mrs. Robin A-W

What Ever They Do It Going To Be A Job To Do It, Good Luck
They Do Make A Roll Out Foam For Brick To Untreated Wood Contact Which Ive Had To Use Before, Its About 1/4 Thick But Will Compress To A lot Less.
May Be Able To Lossen The Nuts On The Bottom Plate And Raise The Wall Just Enough To Slide This Under It, You'll Have To Notch For The Bolt But That's It, This Is Also Code To Use It, Good Luck

yes \ you are right, this just being my own personal experience and not that of a trained professional. Three inch grade is a little to close to the ground. After an extended period the bottom plate will rot.
This being the reason for a treated bottom plate.
Treated wood is a dangerous material, this may be the reason a carpenter might not put it into use. If for some reason it were to be swopped out make sure the builder use the new style galvanized nails, as the famldihide in the 2x4 will rot out the older style concrete nail.
If it where me, I would take a flat shovel and lower the grade a couple of inches or make sure the run off water is directed away from the garage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by natetheskate

yes \ you are right, this just being my own personal experience and not that of a trained profesional. Three inch grade is a a little to close to the ground. After an extended period of time the bottom plate will rot.
This being the reason for a treated bottom plate.
Treated wood is a dangerous material, this may be the reason a carpenter might not put it into use. If for some reason it were to be swopped out make sure the builder use the new style galvanized nails, as the famldihide in the 2x4 will rot out the older style concrete nail.
If it where me, I would take a flat shovel and lower the grade a couple of inches or make sure the run off water is directed away from the garage.

Thanks Nat!

Either I wasn't clear (likely) or you misread what I wrote about 'grade' and the wall.

We designed this home (our last, for more reasons than room allows me to explain) and we are making all entry/exit doors wheel chair friendly. 'Grade', as in actual exposed dirt/gravel/grass at the entry end is about 2'? Below the top of the pony wall. At the other end it is at least 6' - 7' below the pony wall.

The 2" - 4" measurement will be the inside finished concrete floor. The garage center floor drain will be about 5" maybe 6" below the door sills on the dwelling side of the garage and probably 2" - 4" below the bottom of the single untreated 2X6 that the exterior wall studs are nailed to. The difference between the dwelling & exterior wall height will allow a 2" sloped concrete ramp up to the two entry/exit doors.

Not only will there be a center floor drain, there will be a French / trough grate drain just outside the front 16' door opening, so while standing water or excessive moisture should not be a frequent NOR an on going problem, we do NOT think / feel it's prudent to leave the lumber yard untreated 2X6 in contact with the concrete pony wall.

I / we know (understand) pressure treated has and probably emits for a LONG time chemicals that are NOT good for people. Since approximately 1/2 of the total feet of basement wall is poured concrete, there's at least 80' - 110' of treated 2X6 under the living space. The exterior garage wall is not under / part of our living space.

Again, thanks for you input!

I got a tree 100 feet tall 48 inches diameter some one give the estimated board feet in that tree see if I did it right

Nate, you say "Treated wood is a dangerous material" Do you have some data to back this statement up since they quite using arsenic some time ago.