It had to happen...

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The Mexican government is seeking changes to a plan that would expand fences along the United States - Mexico border. It is due to a threat to migratory species accustomed to roaming freely across the frontier. The Environment Department called on Washington to alter the border barriers. The goal is change the border where necessary because the fences could seriously hurt species that cross a 1,900 mile stretch.

Mexico also wants Washington to expand its environmental impact study on the fences. "The eventual construction of this barrier would place at risk the various ecosystems that we share," said Environment Secretary Juan Rafael Elvira. He noted that the border is not just desert, but includes mountains, rivers and wetlands.

A report prepared for the Mexican government by experts and activists from both countries said the fences could isolate border animals into smaller population groups. Thereby affecting their genetic diversity.

Environmentalists add that highly endangered species like the antelope - the Sonoran Pronghorn of which only about 100 still exist - could be wiped out in coming years. They are used to moving across the border in search of scarce grassland.

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Which is worse for this environment, a fence or thousands upon thousands of illegals overrunning the land, letting campfires burn out of control, killing whatever they can find to eat and otherwise trashing the place?

Well, I know which side of the fence you sit on! PMSL reading this thread you started.

You know what I find most curious? The fact that the Mexican government is actually concerned about the ecosystem. How progressive of them. ;)

Since when have Mexicans ever cared about the environment? Since we decided we wanted to put up a fence!

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Originally Posted by nauticalstar420

Since when have Mexicans ever cared about the environment? Since we decided we wanted to put up a fence!

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Yep, here's a nice shot of Mexico City:

http://www.pollutionissues.com/image...02_img0237.jpg

I even hear The Goracle is taking his road show to Mexico :D

Oh trust me, I know what it looks like. I've been to Ensenada, Tijuana, and Juarez. I hope and pray that the U.S. doesn't end up looking like any of those places, but its already headed in that direction.

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Originally Posted by RubyPitbull

Well, I know which side of the fence you sit on! PMSL reading this thread you started.

You know what I find most curious? The fact that the Mexican government is actually concerned about the ecosystem. How progressive of them. ;)

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Hey now, besides their newfound eco-conscience, the mayor of Mexico City plans on adding 'fun' instead of just the same old "express kidnappings." :D

Well, will wonders never cease! Now that is what I call a case of really taking the bull by the horns (or cajones, whatever the case may be)! What a mover and shaker he is! Do you think he has a snowball's chance of doing this during our lifetime? Ahem. Nah.

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speechlesstx agrees: If you've been there, how can you not notice? I found Tijuana to be a sad, sad place, and that could be the kind of 'urban renewal' we're headed for if we DON'T build that fence.

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Oh trust me I do notice. That's why I said we're headed in that direction. California is crap, so is Texas for the most part. Arizona and New Mexico aren't THAT bad, but they're headed there too. We need to get that fence built before we become Mexico, Part 2.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

It had to happen...



Which is worse for this environment, a fence or thousands upon thousands of illegals overrunning the land, letting campfires burn out of control, killing whatever they can find to eat and otherwise trashing the place?

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As far as I'm concern the U.S. might as well make Mexico the fifty-first state. There certainly are natural resources to be shared, lots of land, and plenty workforce. As for the topic: in 1992 Mexico had one of the largest disregards for the environment and humanity on our shared continent. So disastrous it became a National Geographic special.

Chemical Blasts Rock Guadalajara



Bobby

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Originally Posted by nauticalstar420

Oh trust me I do notice. Thats why I said we're headed in that direction. California is crap, so is Texas for the most part. Arizona and New Mexico arent THAT bad, but they're headed there too. We need to get that fence built before we become Mexico, Part 2.

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Hang on there, my part of Texas is booming and quite nice... except for those Wal-Mart bags decorating our trees thanks to the wind, and those ugly Caddies :D

http://justinsomnia.org/images/amari...llac_ranch.jpg

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Hang on there, my part of Texas is booming and quite nice ... except for those Wal-Mart bags decorating our trees thanks to the wind, and those ugly Caddies :D

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LOL, I said "for the most part" on Texas. There are still SOME nice parts of California, but that's only because its too expensive for them to live there. Unfortunately, its too expensive for me to live there as well.. lol :)

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Originally Posted by BABRAM

As for the topic: in 1992 Mexico had one of the largest disregards for the environment and humanity on our shared continent. So disastrous it became a National Geographic special.

Bobby

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Why does that not surprise me? Lol

"Why does that not surprise me? lol"



The Guadalajara blast in 1992 was horrible. I think instead of spending untold amounts of our tax dollars we should uses the resources of Mexico with our U.S. ingenuity.



Bobby

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Originally Posted by BABRAM

"Why does that not surprise me? lol"



The Guadalajara blast in 1992 was horrible. I think instead of spending untold amounts of our tax dollars we should uses the resources of Mexico with our U.S. ingenuity.



Bobby

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Crap. I guess I misunderstood what you said, after all I was 9 when that happened. I don't even remember it. It did sound horrible though.

What do you mean by "uses the resources of Mexico" though? As far as I've seen personally, Mexico doesn't have much for resources.

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Originally Posted by nauticalstar420

There are still SOME nice parts of California, but thats only because its too expensive for them to live there. Unfortunately, its too expensive for me to live there as well..lol :)

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Which is why I don't live there, lol.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Which is why I don't live there, lol.

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I'm getting ready to move there soon, but not to a very nice part. :( My husband is going to be a CO for one of the prisons over there.

My hometown is Reedley, CA. It used to be so beautiful when I was younger, but it has turned to crap. Garbage everywhere, people loitering in front of stores and shopping malls, the whole town stinks in general, I mean actually has a bad smell. Its such a shame.

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Originally Posted by nauticalstar420

Crap. I guess i misunderstood what you said, after all I was 9 when that happened. I dont even remember it. It did sound horrible though.

What do you mean by "uses the resources of Mexico" though? As far as i've seen personally, Mexico doesnt have much for resources.

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That's the problem with the issue. Most Americans have been looking at the issue with negatives for decades and now have resigned to building fences. Mexico has much to offer. We have to share our ingenuity to make it productive for both societies. The following list is not updated, but it is a good primer.

MEXICO

Agriculture: corn, wheat, soybeans, rice, beans, cotton, coffee, fruit, tomatoes; beef, poultry, dairy products; wood products. Labor force: 43.4 million; agriculture 18%, industry 24%, services 58% (2003). Industries: food and beverages, tobacco, chemicals, iron and steel, petroleum, mining, textiles, clothing, motor vehicles, consumer durables, tourism. Natural resources: petroleum, silver, copper, gold, lead, zinc, natural gas, timber. Exports: $213.7 billion f.o.b. (2005 est.): manufactured goods, oil and oil products, silver, fruits, vegetables, coffee, cotton. Imports: $223.7 billion f.o.b. (2005 est.): metalworking machines, steel mill products, agricultural machinery, electrical equipment, car parts for assembly, repair parts for motor vehicles, aircraft, and aircraft parts. Major trading partners: U.S. Canada, Spain, China, Japan (2004).

Communications: Telephones: main lines in use: 12.332 million (2000); mobile cellular: 2.02 million (1998). Radio broadcast stations: AM 851, FM 598, shortwave 16 (2000). Radios: 31 million (1997). Television broadcast stations: 236 (plus repeaters) (1997). Televisions: 25.6 million (1997). Internet Service Providers (ISPs): 51 (2000). Internet users: 3.5 million (2002).

Transportation: Railways: total: 19,510 km (2002). Highways: total: 329,532 km; paved: 108,087 km (including 6,429 km of expressways); unpaved: 221,445 km (1999 est.). Waterways: 2,900 km navigable rivers and coastal canals. Ports and harbors: Acapulco, Altamira, Coatzacoalcos, Ensenada, Guaymas, La Paz, Lazaro Cardenas, Manzanillo, Mazatlan, Progreso, Salina Cruz, Tampico, Topolobampo, Tuxpan, Veracruz. Airports: 1,823 (2002).



Bobby

I don't know about the Natural Resources, but we pretty much have all of the other things that they have. I guess I can agree that Agriculturally and Industrially Mexico is okay, but the people themselves don't care about anything. The environment, education, etc. I feel that they think they've trashed their own environment all to hell and now they don't want to live in it, so they move on to the U.S. and do the same thing.

FTA:

Environmentalists add that highly endangered species like the antelope - the Sonoran Pronghorn of which only about 100 still exist - could be wiped out in coming years. They are used to moving across the border in search of scarce grassland.

How about we make a deal; we'll build the fence and keep the antelope. Mexico can keep their citizens.

:)

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As far as I'm concern the U.S. might as well make Mexico the fifty-first state.

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You make the assumption Mexico wants to become a part of the US. You also make the assumption all the illegal immigrants into this country are Mexican. You've also not considered the extreme difference in culture and ethics which would have to be overcome in order to take advantage of the natural resources in Mexico. Mexico is on it's way up in the world (thanks in large part to NAFTA) but they still aren't first-world. They still don't have a reasonable govt, suffer from a lot of poverty, crime, drugs, etc. I don't know about you, but I think we've got enough corruption in our govt, enough crime, poverty and drugs in our own country that we don't need to INVITE more in.

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Originally Posted by nauticalstar420

I dont know about the Natural Resources, but we pretty much have all of the other things that they have. I guess I can agree that Agriculturally and Industrially Mexico is okay, but the people themselves dont care about anything. The environment, education, etc. I feel that they think they've trashed their own environment all to hell and now they dont want to live in it, so they move on to the U.S. and do the same exact thing.

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On an individual level I've seen born and raised U.S. citizens live in filth and I'd rather give credit when it's due and not all Mexicans are guilty of trashing neighborhoods. There is no doubt that if we could force a higher standard on Mexico govt that in return they can learn to do better. In fact I put the link in my original post to demonstrate they (Mexico govt) are hypocritical to call us out for not being environmentally conscience. The other issue is that Mexico has plenty of potential. With our U.S. laws on their books we would see things work for the better on both ends.



Bobby