My 9 year old child does not want to go and spend time with her father who is supposed to get them on Tuesday and Friday nights overnight. She is scared of him and feels he yells too much and is not nice at times. There is no physical abuse but he is harsh when things don't go his way. She has asked when she will be old enough to decide if she wants to go with him or not.

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Originally Posted by Moxi72

My 9 year old child does not want to go and spend time with her father who is supposed to get them on Tuesday and Friday nights overnight. She is scared of him and feels he yells too much and is not nice at times. There is no physical abuse but he is harsh when things don't go his way. She has asked when she will be old enough to decide if she wants to go with him or not.

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At 18;)

I thought it would be less than 18 in Canada. I am surprised.

It is not the child's choice. You as the parent has a court order that you are to make the child available and to have the child visit.

If you do not make the child go ( or go back to get the court order changed) you can be held in contempt of court.

This is a legal issue between you and the ex, the child is merely part of the order that you must provide

We don't have any court order. We made a separation agreement ourselves and had it notorized. I have full custody of the children but am not to stop the father from having access. I don't want to stop him from having access it is just that the child cries and is scared of him and doesn't want to to go.

If there is a court order for visitation you have to prepare the child for the visits. You do not have to force the child to get into a car with the father or go into his house,

But if you don't you can be cited for contempt of court. You can go to court and ask for a modification of the visitation, but based on what you are saying I doubt if it would be granted.

A signed separation agreement is a legal document and is enforceable, so in essence it is the same as having a court order (even if you didn't have it notorized, as long as both parents have signed it, it is a legal and binding agreement).

I took legal assistant courses at Centennial College and was told that beginning at the age of 12, the courts may listen to the child and take his or her opinion into consideration. My teacher (who was a Family Law lawyer) said that before the age of 12, the courts consider that the child can be influenced by either parent far too easily so it's hard for them to know whether the child actually doesn't want to go see their other parent, or if it's the custodial parent pushing them to say so.

In any case, if your daughter is afraid to visit her father, there might be something else going on there and you may want to call Children's Aid to investigate possible abuse or neglect. Of course, with a 9-year-old girl, she may just not feel comfortable away from home or with her father as opposed to her mother, as some girls prefer spending time with their mothers (i.e. a female) at that age.

Good luck!

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Originally Posted by teddybear_160

A signed separation agreement is a legal document and is enforceable, so in essence it is the same as having a court order (even if you didn't have it notorized, as long as both parents have signed it, it is a legal and binding agreement).

Good luck!

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Your wrong in your thinking. By signing and by getting a document noterized it doesn't make it a legal document. And depending on what's said in the document the courts can throw it out. If the language is illegal. The only time it becomes a legal document is when it has passed through the courts for certification. It doesn't matter what type of agreement it is. And using a notary is just for the purpose of signature only. It has nothing to do with how legal something is. Its only a validation (by states law) that the person signing is the person in question on the documents.

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Originally Posted by califdadof3

Your wrong in your thinking. By signing and by getting a document noterized it doesnt make it a legal document.

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I guess teddybear_160 lives in Canada. There a separation agreement IS a legal document and IS enforceable.

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Originally Posted by GV70

I guess teddybear_160 lives in Canada. There a separation agreement IS a legal document and IS enforceable.

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I agree that there are separation agreements that can be drafted to meet the law. But documents that don't meet the law can't be legal documents until approved by the courts.

Example: 2 parties make a agreement for selling a person into slavery. If a notary puts a stamp on it then its now a legal document? No. And its with those rules of law that such documents must pass court muster before they can be actual legal documents.

In a case like this there are many things that might not hold up in court. Your not allowed to give up certain rights knowingly or unknowingly unless a court approves of it.

Yes, I live in Canada (Ontario, which is where the person who posted the question is from). And yes, in Canadian law, there is a provision stating that a Separation Agreement IS a legal document and IS enforceable. However, let me address califdadof3's comments and agree that absolutely a signed and/or notorized Agreement doesn't suddenly render illegal things legal. But, if your Separation Agreement contains a clause that is not legal, then only that clause is not enforceable - it does not render the entire document null and void. The premis for this is that the Separation Agreement was entered into willingly by both parents and that they did not knowingly include a clause that was unlawful. The rest of the Agreement stands up in court and is as enforceable as a Court Order signed by a Judge. No matter how many clauses of the Agreement contain "illegal" provisions, the rest of the document as a whole remains enforceable.

GV70, I've posted a question and would appreciate your response if you have time. Thanks very much!

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