Should the United States build a fence along our southern border with Mexico?
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Should the United States build a fence along our southern border with Mexico?
Two, and some level of security between them.
In the military areas such as nuke missile base, they have automatic guns that shot anything that moves within an area.
That should must certainly slow them down abit.
We actually lecture other nations about the security of their borders.
And then of course make it a serious crime to be in the country illegal.
Now police will not even detain an illegal, since Immigration don't want them
I really do believe they should, living out here in California it's outrageous seeing some of this stuff that goes on out here, and I would suspect it's just as bad in Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas. I think it needs to happen because no longer is this country needing immigrants.This country has changed from what is was in the early 1900's when around 8, 500,000 immigrated to the U.S. from 1900-1910, we don't have that many positions to fill anymore yet they keep coming. And when the world population rises, it seems likely that more and more will come. Just because there is more people doesn't mean there is more land. However, a fence is a very primitive way of keeping them out, I hope that America and Mexico could work together so that Mexicans will want to stay in their country and have pride in where they come from. I believe that is the best way to prevent immigration.
My brother lives in Las Vegas and would definitely agree with this,that's why he's moving to Oregon. This however, would not be necessary if the Mexican politicians were not so darned currupt and start caring about it's people, instead of keeping them all poor. But then again, maybe Canada should put up a fence too now... don't get me started... :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Or, once that fence is up, let them in and make them get good paying jobs to pay taxes, and also put on a uniform instead of letting them take the money back home and using them as cheap labor- there's a double standard here and it should be stopped. Even though illegally in the US, they put up with abuse, minimum wages - kind of makes you think of what it's like in their country...
Hi,
Very good question.
The problem is that those who patrol the borders can't get enough money from the Federal Gov't. We need more patrols, more people, better equipment, and it all costs money; Federal money. The money isn't there, cause it's being spent in every other country in the World!
The US is trying too hard to protect other countries' borders and we here at home are left out in the cold. Until this is curtailed somewhat, nothing will change.
Many doctors here in my own local area are from other countries. They keep up their Visas, are not US citizens, and don't pay US taxes, but drive Mercedes and live in "mansions".
Many things will have to change before anyone is going to build double fences around any part of the US. The fencing we already have leaves a lot to be desired, with many finding ways to get over it. Money is the key to protecting our borders, and it falling way, way behind, along with money for Social Security, Medicare, and prescription help for our Seniors.
Unless those spending money in Congress wake up and smell the roses, the spending will not stop, much less to control our Mexican borders.
I'm not sure this is applicable to all, as when you have a car, you need a license, and when owning property, you have to be 'registered' somehow, and therefore probably need a social security card to work too, so I think they do pay taxes. The ones that are illegally in the US don't pay taxes, that's the majority of the 'low paid' workers. If the physicians from other countries are allowed to practice in the US they also have to go through tests and accreditations to get their license to practice medicine in the US, unless they do this in basements and illegally working - then they would not make their lifestyles so obvious.. Just a thought...Quote:
Originally Posted by fredg
NO FENCE. We nedd a cement wall 15 ft high with barbedwire, it should be about 12 feet wide so two vehicles could pass by on it, and we should have border patrol constently patroling the wall with sniper rifles. (Just because they have sniper rifles doesn't mean I think they should shoot everybody, purily intimidation.) *back to rational thought* yes, something needs to go up.
This is a distraught and depressing issue.. Maybe a time-machine should be constructed and used by the American Native Indians to biuld those cement walls to prevent immigrants from moving in to seek freedom of persecution and striving for a better future. Why the heck can't the currupt politicians be gotten rid of so that the world could concentrate on true brotherhood and peace. Are there any votes for a new planet? This one is going to hell and I really don't want to be around. I feel sorry for the future generations and leaders.
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_19_5.gif Can we really in all good conscience let this go on?
I feel you!!
I will admit that having illegals can help the economy by taking the low-end jobs, however, we are losing so much money because somehow they find ways of getting benefits. A fence, or wall, or what not would not be necessary if we reformed our welfare program etc, so that these people couldn't use them. However, aside from the economics discussion, I feel the fence should go up due to the war on terror. It won't be long until (or maybe it's already happening) we are being attacked on the main land because it's so easy for people to cross the border. It's a liablility issue. I agree, that illegals are just trying to make a living and imporve their living situation, they don't really affect me at all, but with the latter issue of terrorism, I have to conclude that something must go up.
I think we have to remember that some people out there just don't want peace, and there will always be corruption on this planet, there can and never will be a utopia, as easy as it is to do something good it is even easier to do something harmful and you cannot have one with out the other. It sort of ying yang. But we can improve it, I think that instead of improving this country for them, we should improve their country for them, because we are running out of room, and it will create problems if not already being a nuissance, so a wall yes, but maybe one that can open both ways.
As a baptized american the thought of a fence along the southern border of the U.S. sort of offends me,it goes against everything american that I grew up believing in.Even in today's world of fanatical terrorist just the thought of a fence just boggles my mind.Its a real shame that some of these ivy league politicions can't at least solve some of the problems facing us now,such as homeland security and illegal immigation.We've already got ordinary citizens patroling the border along with the border patrol and still they come.If mexicans can get through so can terrorist.What a world! Well the chinese built a wall I guess we can at least build a fence.I can go along with it but my heart just ain't in it. :confused:
I'm not sure what I would say whether we should or shouldn't but think about what America is supposed to stand for. The people and freedom and welcoming anyone and everyone. The whole philosophy is hell because it's going to kill us in the end we'll just welcome terrorists because we didn't know they were. I mean it's a load of bull and a double standard live one way or live the other. On the other hand I do understand a little how mexicans coming into America without going through the right channels to get here could be a problem. The way the government is it could take a year or two to get through the right channels eh? I don't blame them and I don't believe we should do something like that but I do believe they should go through the right channels it's just the government isn't doing their part. And about terrorism, like 9/11 so clearly stated, if you're a terrorist you're a little smarter than just rushing in to America illegally... you would most likely get here become a citizen work your way up and then make a move... Although China wouldn't really have to do that most anyone else would.
If you can't go over or around it... go under it. A fence will not fix anything. It will just make the coyotes more money from having to charge more to cross people just wanting to work and make some money.
Install turrets? :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Gsxr13
If they want to come over and make money then they should do it legally.
EDIT - Whoops I just realised how old this question is, sorry!
Hello s:Quote:
Originally Posted by shazamataz
It's still a viable question, and you're still wrong. In order for your answer to be correct, there would have to be a viable legal way to get in... There isn't.. It takes about $5,000 and about 5 years... That's not going to work for a hungry family with a husband who just wants to feed his family.
excon
It's a double edged sword, while the immigrants coming to America do work the low level jobs, during this economy it would be needed. But that's not my main concern, my main problem is immigrants getting tax breaks when they come here and committing crimes with the only punishment, being sent back only to return again. Forget the fence, build a wall.
Hire some wall defense personnel to guard the wall, it won't eliminate the problem, but certainly slow them down.
Hello Rome:Quote:
Originally Posted by Romefalls19
You're wrong on a couple of counts. I don't know what tax breaks they get. As a matter of fact, they have taxes deducted, but can't file a return to get the overpayment back, like you can. So, they PAY taxes. If there's a benefit or two they get, they're paying for 'em, just like you and me.
The other thing is the criminals... They don't get off... What do you think kind of prison system we're running here. We, for SURE, ain't no softees. No Siree. We make them do TIME, and THEN we deport them. I don't know if they come back or not.
excon
The tax breaks I am talking about are the ones that they are allowed 7 years without paying taxes, to establish residency here. A lot of the immigrants get them. This is from NJ, but they also get money to get started as well.(worked for the department that gave out these checks, didn't stay long because I got too angry)
And personally, I feel out legal system is a joke and completely imbalanced.
Ima have to say I don't agree on what your saying about tax breaks, I know a guy who's dad is illegal and he pays taxes every time knowing he won't be getting anything back at all, has a house he's paying on including property taxes. And I'm sure the government doesn't mind all those illegals being here when they get to keep all that uncollected tax money at the end of the year and you see everyone else going shopping like if they just won the lottery. Id have to say that's maybe millions if not billions of unclaimed tax money the government keeps.
Gs, I never once said the government was fair, believe me. I am one of the most anti- government people in America. They lie through their teeth and us Americans pay for it. Point lately, this whole bailing out banks and companies.
Here are a few questions that need to be answered.
1) Does the USA have a right to determine who enters its borders? Does it have the right to prevent criminals from entering in order to protect its citizens? Or are the needs/desires of foreign nationals of greater importance than the security of the USA?
2) Does the USA have the right to limit the number of people entering the USA to work or for any other purpose to prevent jobs currently held by Americans from being lost to foreign workers?
3) Does the USA have to have an open border policy to allow anyone and everyone who wishes to enter to do so without answering to any oversight?
4) What means has the government allowed for LEGAL immigration into the USA? Are these means sufficient? Why or why not? Are they insufficient? Whay are why not?
5) Which is paramount: The needs of foreign nationals to come to the USA to find work, or the need for the USA to protect itself from criminals, terrorists and other dangerous persons who are a potential danger to the USA and its citizens?
Until we answer these questions, we cannot address the issue of a fence. Until we are clear what our national goals are, we cannot determine the best way to achieve those goals.
I already have my answers to these questions. I already know what my goals are. Build the fence. It has been working well in Israel to limit terrorist incursions into Israel proper. We can do it just as well here.
Elliot
Hello Elliot:Quote:
Originally Posted by ETWolverine
Couple things. The Mexicans want to wash your dishes, not blow you up. Plus, I for one, am not interested in paying lots more for my lettuce, grapes, clean sheets, and clean plates in my local restaurant. You are! How perfectly UN right wing of you.
excon
And here I thought you would be opposed to near slave like working conditions and well below standard wage.
The only way you get that cheap produce you desire is by maintaining that system here ;or by importing the product of low wage labor from elsewhere .
Hello again, tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Only people with full belly's sit around and discuss working conditions.
And, I'da thought that you would be opposed to an illegal immigrant union, but it looks like you'd support one.
excon
How could I be in support of an illegal immigrant union when I oppose illegal immigration ?
Your earlier response about reforming immigration rules made plenty of sense . However ,we the people have a right to decide who gets to live here. A nation that can't control it's borders has no claim to territorial control at all.
Hello again, tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
I don't know. It looked, for a minute, like you were worried about their employment conditions.
I don't disagree about our right to control who comes in... But, when you make a law that virtually PREVENTS people from coming in through the front door, as our immigration law with Mexico does, you encourage them to come in through the back door.
It would seem to me, that the way to fix it, is to change the law - not to try to throw out the million's of people, and destroy their families, simply because they wanted to mow your lawn.
But, that's just me.
excon
Nowhere did I say that anyone should be thrown out ,although the people who are here illegally need to be properly vetted and recorded . Some may need to be thrown out .
What we have shown in this country is a willingness to reform ;to give amnesty on condition that we would properly control the borders at some later date. The second part of the bargain has consistently been ignored once the first part is enacted.
I am all in favor of reform ;but this time lets take the steps to control the flow into the country 1st .Then WE DECIDE WHO COMES IN .
Hello again, tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
I was referring to your party. But, I'm glad to see that you disavow that particular plank. I think we agree here.
excon
I have tried to tell you before that I am not Republican . They are closer to me philosphically than the Dems but there is a significant part of the party that is not and never was conservative.
Hello again, tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Wow! So, you and Steve are coming over?? Cool. I know, I know. You won't be bringing Elliot along.
excon
I never was Republican .I quit the Democrat party some time ago and remain a registered independent. I may have to register at some point if the Republicans get their heads out of their butts in NY... but I don't see that happening soon . Even when the Republican party was legit in NY it was of the country-club Republican wing .
First of all, how do you know that?Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Second of all, are ALL of the people coming over the Mexican border Mexicans?
Third, crime and terrorism are not the only sources of danger to the American people from beyond the border. There's a swine flu pandemic spreading throughout the world, and it originated in Mexico. Do we have a right to know that those coming over our borders aren't bringing swine flu with them? Or TB? Or avian flu? Or any of the thousands of other contagious bugs that exist outside the USA, but have been virtually wiped out inside the USA. (TB WAS one such case... we had it licked here in the USA until Mexicans with TB came here illegally and started spreading it around. Now TB cases in the USA are on the rise again.)
Fourth, whether they are Mexican or not, don't we have the right to determine who is coming over the border into our country before they come in?
Are you really bringing financial arguments into this again, excon? Haven't I kicked your butt enough times on economic issues?Quote:
Plus, I for one, am not interested in paying lots more for my lettuce, grapes, clean sheets, and clean plates in my local restaurant. You are! How perfectly UN right wing of you.
Labor is roughly 3%-6% of the cost of fresh produce at the store*. Even if we DOUBLED the cost of labor by only using Americans for our labor force, the cost would only increase by 12 cents on the dollar. So your $5 head of lettuce will end up costing about 60 cents more, not $20 dollars.
The REAL costs associated with fresh produce are in the transportation costs and the costs of storage. Scarcity als plays a role in the price of the produce. But labor is just about the smallest variable involved in establishing the price of produce.
But you miss my point again, excon. I'm not talking about keeping Mexicans away from doing these jobs. I'm not even talking about keeping them out of the country. I'm talking about making sure they aren't here ILLEGALLY. Let them come here if they want to. But let them do so in a legal manner, with proper oversight and proper checking of a) their intentions, and b) their health.
What part of that are you against?
Elliot
One more thing:Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Why is it that when I ask an inconvenient question (or in this case a bunch of them) you ignore them completely and make a comletely different point. Please answer the questions that I posted above. Because it is by answering those questions honestly that you will have your answer to the question of whether we should build a fence on the border with Mexico.
Excon, I find it interesting that you, who are so worried about the cost of healthcare in the USA, are willing to risk importing disease to this country from Mexico, AND are willing to import uninsured illegal aliens to drive up the cost of healthcare in the USA.
Can you explain how or why a person who is so worried about the cost of healthcare in the USA is so willing to take actions that drive up the cost of healthcare in the USA?
On the other hand, if they are here LEGALLY, which is what I advocate, they will be sponsored by an employer or supported by family that is already here, who will help pay for his medical costs. And if he is here legally, we will know about his health status, and know that he's not bringing disease here, which will also keep costs of healthcare under control.
Aren't there many visitors to your country from all over the world? Do you view them as disease carriers as well? When you build the wall, will you also ban the tourists because they may carry diseases?Quote:
Originally Posted by ETWolverine
Hello again, El:Quote:
Originally Posted by ETWolverine
It IS interesting that you bring this up... Tis true, the first white men who didn't respect OUR borders brought along disease and pestilence. What people it didn't kill, they did.
So, given our own history, I'd worry too. But, you got to consider that not all peoples are as barbaric as we were.
excon
They all come here LEGALLY, with passports, visas, etc. They can be, and based on where they are from they often are, checked before entering. If they are from a high-risk country, you can be sure that they are either coming with medical documentation verifying that they are safe, or they are submitting to quarantine until they are cleared by a physician for entry. And YES it does happen regularly. Additionally, agro items, especially foods, are restricted as well, because of plant-borne disease risks. That is the job of the Department of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE). Or at least it is supposed to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
I never get "checked" before I cross the border, nor has anyone I know been checked, in fact that simply doesn't happen. Is Mexico and all its citizens always been considered a high-risk country for diseases?
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