TDS was on full display during the pandemic Trump floated the hypothesis early on that the Chinese were lying and that the virus' origin was not from some meat market ,but originated from the Wuhan Institute of Virology .

So of course since Trump said it there was widespread rejection and he was accused of racisim ;xenophobia yada yada yada the typical leftist smears .

But now that he is out of office ,it is ok to speculate that the lab is the source . I go further and say that not only was the lab studying the virus ; a strain that they knew of since 2012 when workers in a copper mine a thousand miles from Wuhan came down with mysterious pneumonia like symptoms .Some even died . Researchers went to the caves , collected bat guano,and began to extract genetic material from fecal samples of bats They have been studying the virus in Wuhan since... perhaps even weaponizing it("gain of function" ....taking a virus that could infect humans and making it either more transmissible and/or pathogenic for humans.) Researchers at the lab discovered that it was easy to " exchange genetic material with similar ones to create a new coronavirus" .They also experimented to see if the bat coronaviruses could bind to an enzyme in human cells.

According to WSJ ,U.S. intelligence found that three researchers from the Wuhan Institute of Virology were hospitalized in November 2019 with symptoms consistent with Covid-19. That is well before the Chinese government’s claim that the first confirmed case occurred on December 8, 2019. That is based on a US fact sheet published January this year .
Fact Sheet: Activity at the Wuhan Institute of Virology - United States Department of State

So now it is cool . Quid has given an investigation into the virus origins his blessing .

When Trump and Tom Cotton mentioned it ;it was called a debunked fringe conspiracy theory . Chinese and American scientists who published anything outside of conventional accepted science were disregarded .Dr Fauchi a year ago said that the virus“evolved in nature and then jumped species” ;and did not originated in the lab he is a patron of through the National institute of Health (NIH) .
How did he know ? The Chinese told him so .....and WHO backed him up. Can researches go to the caves to investigate ? NO the Chinese have sealed access. None of the scientists who continue to claim it was transmitted naturally can identify the source .So their claims are unscientific . They are at best speculative and the scientists are more likely complicit in a cover up of.. the facts.
Journalists who went with the apparent fiction instead of doing true investigative reporting are also complicit .They were more content on leading with the fiction that since Trump and other conservatives floated the idea that the virus was not natural ,that it should be summarily dismissed as a theory born in racist roots. Over the past year this game was played continuously be it masking ,lockdowns ;even the possibility of a speedy vaccine development .
There was no science behind the conventional wisdom ......just group think speculation by scientists ......and uncurious journalists giving them cover

Look Tom when other attacks have been made the answer was to use cruise missiles to wipe out the site, it worked in Syria, so here is the solution wipe out the institute of virology in Wuhan, problem solved

I can except the possibility that it was an accidental release . Just like I accept the possibility that Lyme was released accidently from a US research lab on Plum Island . It can happen . I don't like the lack of transparency from either government There is way too much of it when people's health are affected . The CDC dismissed Lyme as a serious issue for years .

accidental maybe, then why not admit it and end discord and speculation?, No something more sinister here, they were researching the weaponising of the virus, and it backfired, but nevertheless it has been successful even if released prematurely

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then why not admit it and end discord and speculation?,

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That would involve acceptance of liability.

Yes I know the maxim, never admit liability, but the millions who have been affected by this deserve compensation, the economies that have been devastated deserve compensation, war reparations were made, why is this any different? The Chinese need to be brought to account, and their evil empire destroyed

Great story, bro, but completely lacking any actual evidence.

No there are no hard facts yet. Thus the call for an investigation . A call that was summarily dismissed months ago because of who was asking for it . But that is ok . The cover up served it's electoral purpose . But the 5th column ...oops I mean the 4th estate can no longer keep the cover story real . Since the "racist " is no longer in office ,Quid can safely call for the very belated investigation . [the question of why the US doesn't have sufficient intel assets in China is for another discussion Suffice it to say that if the CIA was not concentrating on domestic intrigues then perhaps they could've corrected this deficiency ]

Why the sudden shift from the Quid Administration and the compliant press ? Up until now they have gone along with the bogus narrative put out by the WHO that a lab leak had not happened and that the source of the virus was from a meat market . Hey why not trust the WHO ? They thoroughly investigated the lab for a whole 2 hours .
While Quid is in the mood to investigate ,he should also investigate the unique relationship between US agencies like the Dr Fauci led NIH and the Wuhan Institute of Virology.(other agencies include USAID,DOD ,Homeland Security ,National Science Foundation, Department of Agriculture .They all had dealings with this lab and/or the EcoHealth Alliance ;a non-profit organization also working with the lab ) .

Quid wants all this investigation done in 90 days .90 days to make up for 18 months of wasted time . So this smells like a white wash to me . An attempt to call off the dogs in Congress (Republicans ) who are demanding answers .Marco Rubio for instance is calling for a transparent forensic investigation. Will that happen ? My guess is no .

All I know is that when the SARS pandemic broke out ,the origin question was answered in very short order . We need REAL answers to the origins of this one . If the Chinese will not permit a real investigation then at a minimum US funding and participation in this lab must end and the Chinese should pay a cost . (what is fair compensation for millions of people sick and killed worldwide ;a half a million dead in the US ?)The chances of the investigation mentioning U.S funding for “gain of function” are zero.

More extensive investigations happen when planes crash . It is stunning that the world has accepted the Chinese explanations out of hand .

Hate to break it to Quid . This issue will not go away . Maybe Hunter will have to give the Chinese a refund on their investment in his presidency .

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Great story, bro, but completely lacking any actual evidence.

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that was never a concern for 4 years about the story of Trump being in collusion with Russia

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The Chinese need to be brought to account, and their evil empire destroyed

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Good luck with that.

BTW, if an investigation is needed, then what would be wrong with Australia doing it?

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Originally Posted by tomder55

No there are no hard facts yet. Thus the call for an investigation .

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True.

Does the same hold for the Repubs denying a Jan6 investigation by Congress? There are more than enough hard facts to dig deep into that insurrection. The Republicans were all for an investigation the days after, but now they have done a 180 reversal. Why is that? Especially after the Dems AGREED TO EVERY DEMAND THE REPUBS ASKED FOR.

It is because they know the facts will destroy any chance they have of taking back the House and White House. Their leader in this refusal is the ex-president who was twice impeached and responsible by his inaction for hundreds of thousands of deaths due to Covid. They kiss his arse to keep their plush jobs.

The Republican Party is disgraceful and a blot on American democracy.

Not everything is about american politics, sometimes there are bigger issues

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Good luck with that.

BTW, if an investigation is needed, then what would be wrong with Australia doing it?

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Australia was the first to call for an investigation, while Trump just hollered and where did that get us? in a cold war with China?

Calling for is not the same as doing. If you want an investigation then stop expecting us to do it. Do it yourself. Enough complaining.

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Does the same hold for the Repubs denying a Jan6 investigation by Congress?

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absolutely despite your incorrectly calling what happened an "insurrection " ,and assuming it is a real bipartisan investigation and not a show trial like Schiff-head and the toad like to stage . I have plenty of questions including ones about new video showing Capitol police allowing the protesters into the Capitol . Also a question about the only death that occurred by homicide at the Capitol that day ...... by the still unnamed officer who shot point blank at Ashi Babbitt ;a patriotic veteran of the US Air Force . Normally the left riots when there is a cop shooting someone . Why did Madam Mim and the mayor of DC not adequately protect the Capitol when it was clear that there would be a major protest there (it had been on social media for weeks ) .

JL you have to understand ; when dealing with China ,the Aussies are punching above their weight class .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

absolutely despite your incorrectly calling what happened an "insurrection

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What would you call it when the US Capitol is attacked and broken into while Congress is in session with the stated claim of overturning the election of the US President thereby overthrowing the elected government of the United State of America?

A tea and crumpets party?

Threatening to KILL the vice-president was another stated objective. Was that OK also?

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I have plenty of questions including ones about new video showing Capitol police allowing the protesters into the Capitol

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Fine. You and your Republican pals can ask all the questions you want, but you gotta show up to ask questions.

Why did your team decide NOT to show up after they agreed they WOULD SHOW UP?

my team ? I have been registered without party affiliation my whole adult life and even if I were I walk in lock step with no one .

***"Vietnam has uncovered a new Covid-19 variant combining characteristics of the two existing variants first found in India and the UK," Mr Nguyen told a government meeting, according to Reuters news agency.

Mr Nguyen said the new hybrid variant was more transmissible than previously known versions, especially in the air. He said it was discovered after running tests on newly-detected patients, online newspaper VnExpress reported.***
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...cid=uxbndlbing

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Originally Posted by tomder55

my team ? I have been registered without party affiliation my whole adult life and even if I were I walk in lock step with no one .

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That's it? That's your entire response to my post?

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Calling for is not the same as doing. If you want an investigation then stop expecting us to do it. Do it yourself. Enough complaining.

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There was an Australian in the WHO investigation team, so yes we have done our own investigation and found the evidence was inconclusive. No doubt Joe has formed the same conclusion thus the american investigation and I say good luck penetrating the bamboo curtain

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There was an Australian in the WHO investigation team, so yes we have done our own investigation and found the evidence was inconclusive.

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That's not the same, or even close to being the same, as you doing your own investigation. That's the WHO doing an investigation that found, unsurprisingly, inconclusive evidence.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

That's not the same, or even close to being the same, as you doing your own investigation. That's the WHO doing an investigation that found, unsurprisingly, inconclusive evidence.

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We are no more successful in penetrating the bamboo curtain than you are, you don't just rock up to the borders of a nation who is not speaking to you and do an investigation

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https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/custom...quote_icon.png Originally Posted by tomder55 https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/custom...post-right.png
my team ? I have been registered without party affiliation my whole adult life and even if I were I walk in lock step with no one .



That's it? That's your entire response to my post?

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yeah that's about it . I do not speak for what the Republicans do . They pretty much expelled the fiscal conservative tea partiers and that was the closest I ever came to being a "Republican" . As to your comment about insurrection ...no it was not . It was at best a riot. Now the Antifa movement that continuously assaults Federal and state institutions with incendiary weapons is an insurrection .

Dan Henniger in WSJ points to the lack of trust in the swamp's and the compliant press' ability to be unbiased investigators of the truth .

The Pelosi January 6 Commission Fiasco - WSJ

So no matter what ANY investigation reveals ,already half the country will think the investigation rigged . Such is the lack of integrity of the government and the 5th column ......oops 4th estate

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As to your comment about insurrection ...no it was not . It was at best a riot. Now the Antifa movement that continuously assaults Federal and state institutions with incendiary weapons is an insurrection .

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That is true. The Antifa crowd will occupy entire city blocks and block access by the police. They will do it for months at a time. The 1/6 event had no intent of taking over the Capitol Building and occupying it. It was more of a spontaneous, very dumb idea.

It seems to be the core of our country now. Get all excited about a flash in the pan event like 1/6, and pay no attention at all to an ever ballooning federal debt and the reckless inflation of the money supply.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

As to your comment about insurrection ...no it was not . It was at best a riot

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The Jan6 event was as clear an insurrection as anything that has ever occurred in this country since the Civil War. Simply denying it like the Republicans are doing does not make it less of an insurrection. It is the classic definition of an insurrection.

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Now the Antifa movement that continuously assaults Federal and state institutions with incendiary weapons is an insurrection

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This would be laughable if the situation were not so serious. Antifa is a loosely organized group which is against the groups who espouse racism, anti-semitism, white supremacy, and neo-Nazi philosophy - in other words, the ones that stormed the Capitol in the Jan 6 insurrection. Any violence has been denounced by Pelosi and other Dem members and center-leaning figures. Comparing antifa with Jan 6 is a desperate move by you and the far-right wackos.

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The Pelosi January 6 Commission Fiasco - WSJ

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Your so-called fiasco was originally exactly what the Republicans wanted. When the Dems agreed to what they wanted, they bailed out like the cowards they are.

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So no matter what ANY investigation reveals ,already half the country will think the investigation rigged

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You have no idea what "half the country" will do after the facts are presented to them. In fact, most Americans want the investigation to be done. That number will increase as the facts are presented.

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Such is the lack of integrity of the government

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The government you are referring to has been voted out of office. Its leader is wondering where he will next live since nobody seems to want him around.

Actually the government you refer to was advancing the lab leak theory for months. The government you defend aka swamp critters was carrying water for the Chinese .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Actually the government you refer to was advancing the lab leak theory for months. The government you defend aka swamp critters was carrying water for the Chinese .

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The lab leak theory was around in January 2020 - long before Trump seized on it as a talking point against China. I hope you're not suggesting Trump gets some sort of credit if the theory turns out to be true.

Far more serious was Trump's lack of action in dealing with the actual virus leading to hundreds of thousands of deaths.

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Far more serious was Trump's lack of action in dealing with the actual virus leading to hundreds of thousands of deaths.

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and again proving Henniger's point .

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Originally Posted by Athos

The lab leak theory was around in January 2020 - long before Trump seized on it as a talking point against China. .

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You sometimes give your Presidents too much credit for what they are able to accomplish particularly when they have a House bent on impeaching them. If you cannot pass legislation in a hostile environment you are dead in the water, so the real blame for inaction lies with fancy Nancy and the demonrats who are now able to use the situation to their advantage

Fauci and company was denying that it was a pandemic and a major problem 9 days before Trump put the travel ban on China.

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Originally Posted by paraclete

You sometimes give your Presidents too much credit for what they are able to accomplish particularly when they have a House bent on impeaching them. If you cannot pass legislation in a hostile environment you are dead in the water, so the real blame for inaction lies with fancy Nancy and the demonrats who are now able to use the situation to their advantage

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The House had nothing to do with the inaction. You don't understand how things work.

Trump had the bully pulpit - the attention of millions of his followers. He neglected to emphasize the seriousness of the pandemic by dissing mask wearing and promoting ridiculous "cures" which killed at least one older couple when they drank the "bleach" cure Trump touted. At every rally he made fun of the "false" virus, until he finally got wise as the death toll mounted. 80% of the death toll is indirectly attributed to Trump's failure to act.

Fighting the virus was the job of science, not legislation.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Fauci and company was denying that it was a pandemic and a major problem 9 days before Trump put the travel ban on China.

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Faucci and company followed the science and quickly adjusted their stance whenever it was demanded by the new information coming in on a daily basis. Trump didn't change his tune until it was far too late. He even continued to diss the problem even after he caught the virus himself and rode around in the car jeopardizing everyone near him. The jerk was and is a complete total amoral moron!

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dissing mask wearing and promoting ridiculous "cures" which killed at least one older couple when they drank the "bleach" cure Trump touted.

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A completely false story. It was not bleach but fish tank cleaner which Trump never suggested anyone use. The man and his wife both ingested chloroquine phosphate, reportedly believing it to be a miracle cure for coronavirus. Trump had suggested, accurately as it turned out, that hydroxychloroquine showed promise as a treatment for CV. The older couple confused one for the other.

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80% of the death toll is indirectly attributed to Trump's failure to act.

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Nothing more than a "swag" which is wildly inaccurate.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

A completely false story. It was not bleach but fish tank cleaner

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Same result. Bleach/chloroquine - they trusted Trump who totally screwed up his presidential responsibility on the issue leading to hundreds of thousands of deaths.

That is simply not true. The older couple made a mistake for which Trump had no involvement. He never told anyone to take fish tank cleaner. For that matter, he never suggested anyone take HC. He did cite research showing hydroxychloroquine having potential as a treatment. The older couple did not take HC. "As Reason's Elizabeth Nolan Brown wrote this morning, 'It hardly seems Trump's fault that this couple took his statements to mean that drinking any old thing with chloroquine in it could help them.' "

except Trump never said 'bleach' or suggested using it .]He was asking officials on the White House coronavirus task force whether disinfectants could be used in potential cures. As an example ; The science tells me that thimerosal is a disinfectant commonly used in vaccines. Food grade hydrogen peroxide is another . Silver has been used and an antimicrobial ingestible disinfectant for hundreds of years .So has iodine .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

except Trump never said 'bleach' or suggested using it .]He was asking officials on the White House coronavirus task force whether disinfectants could be used in potential cures. As an example ; The science tells me that thimerosal is a disinfectant commonly used in vaccines. Food grade hydrogen peroxide is another . Silver has been used and an antimicrobial ingestible disinfectant for hundreds of years .So has iodine .

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You guys are making a mountain out of a molehill. The whole world knows what Trump did or did not do re Covid. Yeah, it wasn't specifically bleach, but Trump touted injecting "disinfectant" into the body. Bleach is a powerful disinfectant that would kill anyone who injected it. Bit of a nitpick, isn't that?

The hydroxychoroquinine was another piece of idiocy from Trump. Without any medical evidence that it was a valid treatment for Covid, Trunp promoted it leading to the death of an elderly couple who saw it on a label for a fish tank cleaner and thought it would be a good treatment BASED ON WHAT TRUMP SAID.

Why do I have to spend time on this crap when the both of you know exactly what happened? Do you love Trump that much to defend the indefensible?

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an elderly couple who saw it on a label for a fish tank cleaner

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First you said bleach, but now it's HC. Either way, they did not see HC on a label. They saw simply chloroquine phosphate. If they had taken what Trump referred to, they would have had no problems. It was not, "BASED ON WHAT TRUMP SAID," no matter how many times you say it.

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Without any medical evidence that it was a valid treatment for Covid,

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Also not true. Trump was referring to preliminary results from research on HC as a treatment for CV. The med evidence was not conclusive by any means, but there was med evidence there.

In this multi-hospital assessment, when controlling for COVID-19 risk factors, treatment with hydroxychloroquine alone and in combination with azithromycin was associated with reduction in COVID-19 associated mortality.
Treatment with hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin, and combination in patients hospitalized with COVID-19 - International Journal of Infectious Diseases (ijidonline.com)

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

First you said bleach, but now it's HC.

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Why do you insist on picking nits? HQ or bleach - big deal!

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Either way, they did not see HC on a label. They saw simply chloroquine phosphate. If they had taken what Trump referred to, they would have had no problems.

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For Christ sake, they were not chemists!

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It was not, "BASED ON WHAT TRUMP SAID," no matter how many times you say it.

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Of course it was. Their wrong reading in no way removes Trump from the equation.

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Trump was referring to preliminary results from research on HC as a treatment for CV. The med evidence was not conclusive by any means, but there was med evidence there.

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That was not Trump's job to be touting medical research. Obviously, some listeners took it the wrong way. Faucci warned against jumping the gun based on limited anecdotal evidence. That didn't stop Trump in his desperation to play down the danger of the virus, which ultimately bit him in the arse (literally).

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In this multi-hospital assessment, when controlling for COVID-19 risk factors, treatment with hydroxychloroquine alone and in combination with azithromycin was associated with reduction in COVID-19 associated mortality.
Treatment with hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin, and combination in patients hospitalized with COVID-19 - International Journal of Infectious Diseases (ijidonline.com)

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Soon, and after a large trial, the FDA announced the drug had no benefit in the treatment of Covid-19. Trump should have kept his mouth shut.

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Their wrong reading in no way removes Trump from the equation.

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Actually, it completely does so. Trump says "A" and they read "D". That places the responsibility squarely on the reader.

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That was not Trump's job to be touting medical research.

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Of course it was. What pres doesn't do that? Even your hero, Obama, did it.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/obama-e...-research-ban/

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Obviously, some listeners took it the wrong way.

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I would agree with that. In fact they rather sadly completely botched it.

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The key Chinese researcher at Wuhan, Shi Zhengli, known as the “Bat Lady,” specialized further, engineering coronaviruses to attack human cells. Her research was funded by the Obama administration’s National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, a part of the National Institutes of Health. The NIH initially assigned those grants to EcoHealth, who subcontracted the work to Wuhan. The work which likely created COVID-19 was paid for by the United States.

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America Might Have Funded the Chinese Coronavirus | The American Conservative