Can a person who supports LGBTQ be opposed to transgender women competing in women's sports?
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Can a person who supports LGBTQ be opposed to transgender women competing in women's sports?
Sure why not.
What are the reasons to be opposed?Quote:
Originally Posted by Athos
That a mind change does not change the body that the person was born with. The musculature, the skeletal structure, the stamina, range of power, etc. is still the same and far more powerful than the average woman.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Even after a year of hormone therapy, the male characteristics, while somewhat diminished, still far outperform the women.
In my mind, these things add up to an unfair advantage.
I FB messaged with a transgender woman friend who said this:
Usually with parental support transitioning can start before puberty. No surgeries until 18 though. Have to give time for natural development to occur on hormones. Plus the puberty-to-18 span gives a natural delay for thought and therapy. At 18 they just need two letters from independent therapists and schedule consults.
Officially it's this list:
Gender Therapist.
Hormone clearance letter.
Hormones. (for FtM, reduce muscle mass, strength)
Living full-time 24/7/365.
Name/gender changes.
Changes on utilities and banking.
Changes on insurance. I got a female discount on car insurance because males are high risk. https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/e...1/16/1f601.png
First surgery letter good for orchie.
Second therapist.
Second surgery letter.
Picking a surgeon.
Surgical consult.
Booking surgery.
New vulva!!!!!
Absolutely no surgeries allowed until one full year on hormones. Entire transition process takes 4-6 years or more. Is very expensive overall.
"transitioning" is mutilation
Nope. For MtF, it's fixing what Mother Nature or the pregnant woman misused regarding estrogen. Genital Confirmation Surgery (GCS) by a fully informed adult is the final part of the MtF trans process.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Another early-in-transitioning friend (who is living and of course dressing as female) told me recently:
"Every time I go out I’m just further amazed at how wonderful I feel. This is so absolutely who I am. OK raccoons occasional stare but I really don’t care about that. Because I know who I really am now."
That has nothing to do with the question. The question was whether transgendering from male to female gives an unfair advantage to the person who transgendered.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
I'm sorry you went through all that trouble without referring to or answering the question.
Are you able to answer it now?
Oh, I thought the fun, even excitement, of this site is to switch gears mid-thread!Quote:
Originally Posted by Athos
All that I wrote was preface to this addition from my trans friend, speaking to the question asked:
"Total BS that MtFs have an advantage in sports! I have lost 60% muscle. If a trans female starts hormones at 12 or 13, there is no difference in body development between born male and cis girl with those receiving hormones. At 6 months of hormone therapy, sex drive is gone, most likely sterile, loss of muscle, etc."
haha - can't argue that....Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Why the preface? The added part was far more direct, although still not speaking to the question.Quote:
All that I wrote was preface to this addition from my trans friend, speaking to the question asked:
Your trans friend is demonstrably wrong. To you and to her, I would suggest you can easily google the facts on transgender from male to female and how the newly gendered female is far superior to the women.Quote:
"Total BS that MtFs have an advantage in sports! I have lost 60% musclea trans fem. If ale starts hormones at 12 or 13, there is no difference in body development between born male and cis girl. At 6 months of hormone therapy, sex drive is gone, most likely sterile, loss of muscle, etc."
I understand your friend is speaking from her subjective feelings, but that is not science nor representative of the facts. For example, "If a trans female starts hormones at 12 or 13, there is no difference in body development between born male and cis girl." If this is an argument for male-to-female transgenders not being superior in sports, in fails dismally by not addressing the question.
Another: "At 6 months of hormone therapy, sex drive is gone, most likely sterile, loss of muscle, etc." Again, this does not address the question.
All you need to see are the results . Transformer Lia Thomas consistently defeats women competition and breaks records doing it . Coming in 2nd is the new 1st place in woman's swimming . This is Title IX down the toilet .and it make lie to all the NCAA efforts to eliminate PEDs from the sport .Transformers should have their own category if they are really looking for a politically correct woke solution .
It's transgender, not transformer. Other than that, I agree with what you wrote.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
definitely transformer
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOIhbELX...jpg&name=large
There's no need to insult her with nasty remarks.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
HE spent 21 years as a man . He still has male organs .
That's the last thing to go. Now, report on her testosterone and progesterone and estrogen levels and how long she has been taking the latter two.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
From Wikipedia --
In one notable race during January 2022 at a meet against UPenn's Ivy league rival Yale, Thomas finished 6th place in the 100m freestyle race, losing to four cisgender women and Iszac Henig, a transgender man (transitioning without hormone therapy).
Just because she still has male sex organs, she's a cheat??? You apprently didn't read my earlier response to you and are also grossly uninformed. You're a very intelligent guy, tomder; I know that from the Q&A sites (askme and answerway, maybe sploofus) we've been on together for years. (I used another name then.) Please do some honest research on transgender and what happens when and how. Thanks!
Unfortunately, WG, yes, she's a cheat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Not because she still has male sex organs, but because her body retains male characteristics (noted earlier) that prove her far more physically powerful than women.
The number of SOME women that may be able to defeat her athletically from time to time is infinitesimally small and only goes to prove the rule. The typical woman will never be able to do so.
Male-to-female transgenders will always have a physical advantage in sports rendering the sport unfair to women.
Speaking of the very intelligent, I would apply that to you also, and hope that you reconsider your position.
Sex organs don't make the gender, the male or the female. It's the HORMONES (produces by those sex organs) that do that. She's been doing female hormone therapy -- progesterone and estrogen -- probably for several years. Her testosterone has been greatly reduced. She still needs time taking female hormones, and also maybe for voice coaching, possibly face sculpting (if desired), allowing hair to grow out, and, near the end of probably six years, Genital Reassignment Surgery (GRS).Quote:
Originally Posted by Athos
"Under the standards of care adopted by the World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH), the first step usually is meeting with a mental health professional for a diagnosis and psychotherapy. A diagnosis of gender identity disorder or gender dysphoria and a letter of recommendation from the therapist allows a person to begin hormone therapy with a doctor. That is usually followed by a period of living publicly as a member of the opposite sex and, finally, surgery to alter the genitalia and other body parts."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...surgery-works/
Ha, ha, a "typical woman" on any sports teams. Apparently, you don't understand what coaches want on their teams. (I'm a typical woman who was told no by more than one coach.) A typical woman (whatever that is -- weak as a kitten?) isn't it. And she must have passed the gender test to be on that team.Quote:
The number of SOME women that may be able to defeat her athletically from time to time is infinitesimally small and only goes to prove the rule. The typical woman will never be able to do so.
Untrue.Quote:
Male-to-female transgenders will always have a physical advantage in sports rendering the sport unfair to women.
Nope. Please consult with your favorite librarian for more information.Quote:
Speaking of the very intelligent, I would apply that to you also, and suggest that you reconsider your position.
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