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-   -   Wiring barn but confused on gauge of wire needed. (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=597439)

  • Sep 15, 2011, 06:35 PM
    ITstudent2006
    Wiring barn but confused on gauge of wire needed.
    We currently have no electricity in our barn. We plan on running a cable from our garage panel to the panel in the barn. What we keep getting confused on is the gauge of wire to use. This wire will be put inside an outdoor tubing and buried 18". The only thing in the barn we will be using is lights, occasional power-tool, and a radio :)

    We were told that #14 would do fine with 15 amp breakers but I know nothing about this stuff. I wouldn't imagine the wattage needed would be much.

    Any help or advice is appreciated.

    P.S. Would 15 amp circuit breakers be fine to run two fluorescent lights and an occasional power-tool and radio?
  • Sep 16, 2011, 02:38 AM
    tkrussell
    All the wire inside the barn should be a minimum of #12 and a 20 amp circuit breaker.

    Depending on the distance between the home and the barn, #12 may be sufficient.

    What is the distance?

    Keep in mind there are other issues such as grounding, disconnect, and type of cable to be used in the barn, to go over.
  • Sep 16, 2011, 08:05 AM
    ITstudent2006
    150-200ft from garage to barn.
  • Sep 16, 2011, 05:04 PM
    ma0641
    Also note that there is a "panel in the barn". What is the AMP rating? Any wiring there now?
  • Sep 17, 2011, 03:23 AM
    tkrussell
    MA, since the first sentence states " We currently have no electricity in our barn." My take is there is no power, wiring, or panel currently in the barn.


    IT, #12 wire is too small to run 150-200 feet, even for one circuit.

    If you only want one 20 amp 120 volt circuit in the barn, assuming 16 amps at 120 volts at 200 feet, would require #6 copper wire as a feeder from garage to barn.

    Then use #12 cable in the barn.

    Does this sound like what your trying to accomplish?
  • Sep 17, 2011, 08:38 AM
    ITstudent2006
    To clarify on the barn, we did at one point have electricity back there. There is currently a panel back there with outlets and wiring already ran. Mind you the barn is 60+ years old and over time cables were ripped out during renovation, panel box rusted throughout, etc... so restarting is our objective.

    TK- Yes that sounds like what I am trying to do. Have one feeder wire to supply electric to the new panel in the barn and then split off from there to where we need it.

    Thanks guys!

    P.S. Am I true in saying #6 is thicker and bigger then 10, 12, 14, etc..
  • Sep 18, 2011, 04:56 AM
    tkrussell
    Yes the lower the number the more ampacity a wire is rated.To reduce voltage drop, larger wire is used as it will have less resistance.

    You can use three #6 THHN/THWN for the two live and one neutral and one #10 green THHN/THWN copper wires as the feeder in PVC conduit.

    Use a 40 amp breaker at the main panel.

    While 3 #6 and 1 - #10 will fit in 1 inch PVC conduit, due to the long distance, I would use 1- 1/4 inch PVC conduit.

    You may want to compare pricing, I would use aluminum #2 -4 wire URD cable, in 2 or 3 inch conduit as the feeder.

    This will give you the capacity for added load and still keep the voltage drop minimal.

    The new panel can have up to six branch circuit breakers without having a Main breaker in it.

    The new panel will need an additional equipment ground bar, as the neutral bar will be for only white neutrals and must be isolated from equipment grounds at the new panel.

    Need to drive at least one 8 foot ground rod, some states, such as Maine, require two, and connect to the equipment ground bar with #6 copper wire. Space two ground rods at least six feet apart.
  • Sep 18, 2011, 03:00 PM
    ITstudent2006
    TK- I read that 5 times and I am almost certain I have better luck understanding Japanese :D
  • Sep 19, 2011, 02:31 AM
    tkrussell
    Then time to hire an electrician.
  • Sep 19, 2011, 07:30 AM
    ITstudent2006
    I thought the same thing so I spoke with my brother-in-law who is also my neighbor and he is an electrician and is willing to help us if we get the material. I spoke to him yesterday and he gave me a list of everything we'll need.

    Thanks TK
  • Sep 19, 2011, 12:15 PM
    tkrussell
    OK, a bit confused, if I may ask, why you asking on a website questions that your brother-in-law, that happens to be an electrician, and that just happens to live next door, can and did answer? You have to admit, that seems a bit odd. If it is too personal, tell me to pound sand.

    What is the bill of material? It would help us confirm we were all thinking the same situation.

    May I make a suggestion, a bit off topic, taking your name literally, as I deal with IT people frequently, none, other than the VP of a bank datacenter I trained, understand power distribution, why doesn't IT students get this training?

    Does not need to be too indepth, but some basic understanding would be good.

    Don, I hope you see this, this is right up your alley. If you get to be a teacher, zoom in on training IT trainees.

    IT people are wicked smart, learning basic electrical would do the industry wonders.
  • Sep 19, 2011, 03:23 PM
    Stratmando
    I would Use #12, price difference is minimal, labor is the same. If it gets cold in the winter, a small heater may be nice?
    What is the distance?
  • Sep 19, 2011, 04:47 PM
    ITstudent2006
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tkrussell View Post
    OK, a bit confused, if I may ask, why you asking on a website questions that your brother-in-law, that happens to be an electrician, and that just happens to live next door, can and did answer? You have to admit, that seems a bit odd. If it is too personal, tell me to pound sand.
    My brother-in-law is gone for days to weeks at a time. He called the house the yesteray to have me help his wife with the lawnmower and he sat with me for a few and we discussed the barn. Usually I would wait for him to get back to talk to him as he is usually busy. I posted on here because I didn't want to wait til Friday (when he gets back).

    Quote:
    What is the bill of material? It would help us confirm we were all thinking the same situation.
    Not sure. We haven't priced it. A new roof is higher priority and so thats what we have been focusing on all week so far.

    Quote:
    May I make a suggestion, a bit off topic, taking your name literally, as I deal with IT people frequently, none, other than the VP of a bank datacenter I trained, understand power distribution, why doesn't IT students get this training?
    That was less of a suggestion and more of a question. The answer is because we don't deal with running electrical. We run ethernet and other data cables but nothing to do with electric power distribution. Perhaps in some jobs but as a whole, the IT field isn't required to know this. That's why there are electricians.

    Quote:
    IT people are wicked smart, learning basic electrical would do the industry wonders.
    I agree to an extent. If everyone was cross-trained in everybody else's job then why have certain jobs? Just a question. There is enough to know in the IT field that I am learning more and more everyday, that I don't think knowing electrical wiring and power distribution is relevant to my job title.
  • Sep 19, 2011, 04:49 PM
    ITstudent2006
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Stratmando View Post
    I would Use #12, price difference is minimal, labor is the same. If it gets cold in the winter, a small heater may be nice?
    What is the distance?
    200ft

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