Hello:

I don't want to talk about religious stuff. I want to talk about science stuff... Or, maybe it's philosophical stuff with a little religion thrown in. I don't know.

Not too long ago, like when you were born, who we are in terms of evolution, was left to natural occurrences. THESE days, however, your children will be able to DESIGN their children.

In the process, of course, we're going to cure a lot of diseases. That's good, isn't it? But, while we're doing that, we're changing our own evolution.

Should we be doing this stuff?

And, to those of you who don't believe in evolution, how is it, that we can change what you don't believe in?

excon

That genie was out of the bottle the first time we discovered that chewing on white willow bark relieved pain.


Edit . The real question I have is why are humans so unique that they can literally defy the "laws " of evolution ?

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Originally Posted by tomder55

edit . the real question I have is why are humans so unique that they can literally defy the "laws " of evolution ?

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Because we're smarter than everyone else. We figured out how to cure and treat disease. We don't cast aside deformed or defective people. We have society, which treats everyone as an equal, giving them equal chance. Someone who has a genetic predisposition to disease X can still find a mate and reproduce, thus passing disease X on to their offspring. Other animals don't do that - if you ain't right, no one wants your baby! Despite all of that, though, we still evolve... just much... much... slower.

To excon -

I'm torn on this issue. On the one hand, to eliminate (or significantly reduce) certain diseases is great, but it's a bit creepy to me that you can fill out a checklist for your kids. It's like a made to order omelet...

People used to die when they got old. Sick and deformed babies used to die in utero or at birth or by the time they got to be toddlers. My husband's 94 y/o aunt wants so badly to die but medical science is keeping her alive, curing MRSA and C. diff when she got it, giving her morphine to kill pain, stuffing her with antidepressants so she will be social and eat and get out of bed. She wants to leave her money to nieces and nephews, but her life savings is being spent to keep her alive. My uncle saved money all his life to enjoy his old age that he ending up spending in a nursing home. (Sorry about this off-subject paragraph. I had to vent.)

I like medical science, but I want to be surprised when the baby arrives.

The number of intermediate varieties, which have formerly existed on the earth, must be truly enormous. Why then is not every geological formation and every stratum full of such intermediate links? Geology assuredly does not reveal any such finely graduated organic chain; and this, perhaps, is the most obvious and gravest objection which can be urged against my theory.
Charles Darwin 1859

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Originally Posted by jillianleab

Because we're smarter than everyone else. We figured out how to cure and treat disease. We don't cast aside deformed or defective people. We have society, which treats everyone as an equal, giving them equal chance. Someone who has a genetic predisposition to disease X can still find a mate and reproduce, thus passing disease X on to their offspring. Other animals don't do that - if you ain't right, no one wants your baby! Despite all of that, though, we still evolve... just much... much... slower.

To excon -

I'm torn on this issue. On the one hand, to eliminate (or significantly reduce) certain diseases is great, but it's a bit creepy to me that you can fill out a checklist for your kids. It's like a made to order omelet...

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The problem is that the weak now survive thanks to medical science. The gene pool while more diversified due to the massive numbers surviving birth, birth defects and disease is being diluted with weaker gene lines and lack of exposure to certain virus's; etc.

As for designing kids, here is the problem. If you increase one attribute, which other attribute takes a back seat? Or what took either seconds in the design by God, or billions of years of evolution and natural selection to design with checks and balances built in; becomes suddenly unbalanced by human tinkering; does it leave the human race even more vulnerable to a catastrophic human race ending virus that we can't fight off or have the medical science come to defend us. HIV/AIDS is a good example, we can't cure it, and we don't have vaccination against it. Can you imagine if the delivery system for such a virus was through the air (we could simply get it by breathing in air infected by the breathing of a carrier/infected person) rather than the current sexually transmitted variety.

Also, there will only be a select few able to design their kids (by the way, sounds like the Nazi doctor trying to create a pure Ayran race) because of the cost. Just another way to have a huge underclass of human's in time, and that could lead to slavery or serving those who are superior. There will be no more; if you work hard enough you can be anything even the President of the United States, cause chances are if you were not born with genetic modifications you are going to be a dumb in comparison and whatever good paying jobs that are out there, you won't even be able to understand.

It scares the crap out of me that those in control of the profit of science will be helping us decide how to change human kind. I would rather leave it to God, fate, evolution; because if there is a profit to be made or a military use for enhanced humans I fear we are going to screw more than we are going to help in the long run.

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello:

I don't wanna talk about religious stuff. I wanna talk about science stuff..... Or, maybe it's philosophical stuff with a little religion thrown in. I dunno.

Not too long ago, like when you were born, who we are in terms of evolution, was left to natural occurrences. THESE days, however, your children will be able to DESIGN their children.

In the process, of course, we're going to cure a lot of diseases. That's good, isn't it? But, while we're doing that, we're changing our own evolution.

Should we be doing this stuff?

And, to those of you who don't believe in evolution, how is it, that we can change what you don't believe in?

excon

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You are not talking of evolution but an attempt at design.

Evolution is chance mutations acted upon by natural selection.

Think about it, number one killer in the world is diarrheal illnesses, but with sanitation and clean water that has been greatly reduced in advanced countries. But what gets you when you get older is Heart disease and or cancer primarily. A huge factor is behavioral. Eat a well balanced low fat diet, exercise regularly, keep at an ideal weight, get your routine screenings and check ups. We know this, but we still do things NOT to keep healthy.

Then there are potential side effects to the "cures"

Autism has not been scientifically proven to be linked to childhood vaccinations, but a few percent refuse these vaccinations, that for the population as a whole is very beneficial.
Every potential benefit also carries some risk. Look up baycol or rezulin or vioxx or avandia.

The science is already there to help genetic defects like alpha 1 anti trypsin deficiency, and hopefully one for juvenile diabetes or cystic fibrosis.

But this is by using intelligence and design. Something I believe in more so than chance evolution.







G&P

More science fiction, remember this movie? ;)

Gattaca (1997) - Plot summary











g&p

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello:

I don't wanna talk about religious stuff. I wanna talk about science stuff..... Or, maybe it's philosophical stuff with a little religion thrown in. I dunno.

Not too long ago, like when you were born, who we are in terms of evolution, was left to natural occurrences. THESE days, however, your children will be able to DESIGN their children.

In the process, of course, we're going to cure a lot of diseases. That's good, isn't it? But, while we're doing that, we're changing our own evolution.

Should we be doing this stuff?

And, to those of you who don't believe in evolution, how is it, that we can change what you don't believe in?

excon

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We can't know until we tried it.

If it works out for the best, then wonderful.
If not - woopsie.

I don't think anyone can actually tell you if we should be doing this. No one know's and how could they ?

Jillian . My edit was an attempt to bring the discussion to philosophical stuff.

Can someone explain scientifically why humans are seemingly so much more advanced than any other animal life on the planet ?

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Can someone explain scientifically why humans are seemingly so much more advanced than any other animal life on the planet ?

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Hello tom:

Because some of us have big brains.

excon

No it is deeper than that . There is a huge divide between the rest of the animals and humans... why ?

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Originally Posted by tomder55

no it is deeper than that

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Hello again, tom:

No, it isn't. But, if you have a theory, I'd like to hear it.

excon

Elephants boast the biggest brains by volume of all land animals but are not more highly evolved than humans .

I do not have a scientific theory but a philosphical belief as to why there is a huge gap .

What exactly is changing? Are we growing kids with wings now?

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

What exactly is changing? Are we growing kids with wings now?

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Hello again, Steve:

That's a thought. We might just be able to do that in short order... But, for now, we can breed 'em to be WITHOUT disease, tall, blue eyed, muscular, brainey... Stuff like that.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Elephants boast the biggest brains by volume of all land animals but are not more highly evolved than humans .

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Hello again, tom:

And, you know that how? Because elephants don't drive cars? Maybe they've evolved beyond the need for cars.

Why do you need a car anyway? To drive to work so you can pay for your house?? Elephants don't need to mess around with such mundane pursuits. They may very well have loftier ideals.

excon

I know that because they aren't pecking at a key board communicating complex thoughts over 3000 miles distance. I know that because I can live on land sea and in the air and they can't. I can alter my environment to suit me the elephant can't . For many reasons... including the ability to reason and make decisions on my actions that aren't instinctual I am a more evolved creature.

Hello again, tom:

So, you equate typing on a keyboard with being evolved. I don't. I'll bet the elephant doesn't either.

excon

I doubt the elephant thinks about much at all.

I bet the elephant doesn't think about it either. But I am still waiting for the Infinite monkey theorem to produce results.