Ask Me Help Desk - Closet flange question

Finally got into the bathroom remodel I was planning. When I got the toilet off I saw a couple of potential issues with the closet flange (cast iron flange attached to 4 inch pipe with lead... I was scraping around and saw the lead).

1. The flange is crooked and well above the concrete slab. One side is a bit over 3/4 inch and the other side is a little under 1/2 inch above the slab. (They shimmed the high side when the old toilet went in... probably when the place was built .

2. Part of the flange is broken. Not the part where the bolts go to hold the toilet down. The part that is broken is the slotted grove part on the closet flange (I don't really know what that is for... is it important?? ).

Should I change the flange out?? I bought some replacement flanges (3 types) today.

1) One is a cast flange "4x2 inch cast iron No caulk flange" it has a neoprene rubber gasket that seals around the outside of the 4 inch pipe (plumbest part C40-420). There are bolts that get tightened that bring the two halves of the flange together squeezing the gasket against the outside of the 4 inch pipe.

2) 4x2 inch cast iron two finger flange (plumbest part C47-420) this one has a gasket that seals against the inside of the 4 inch pipe. I guess you just shove this into the pipe.

3) 4x3 inch PVC two finger flange (plumbest part C47-43P)... seems pretty much the same as the 4x2 inch cast iron two finger flange but it is plastic.

If I replace the closet flange which replacement should I use?? Is it better to use the flanges that seal inside the pipe or on the outside?

Also... I'm guessing I have to break the old flange to get it off. Should I smack it with a hammer/chisel... cut it with a sawzall... an angle grinder?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommytman

Finaly got into the bathroom remodel I was planning. When I got the toilet off I saw a couple of potential issues with the closet flange (cast iron flange attached to 4 inch pipe with lead...I was scraping around and saw the lead).

1. The flange is crooked and well above the concrete slab. One side is a bit over 3/4 inch and the other side is a little under 1/2 inch above the slab. (They shimmed the high side when the old toilet went in....probably when the place was built .

2. Part of the flange is broken. Not the part where the bolts go to hold the toilet down. The part that is broken is the slotted grove part on the closet flange (I don't really know what that is for...is it important???).

Should I change the flange out???? I bought some replacement flanges (3 types) today.

1) One is a cast flange "4x2 inch cast iron No caulk flange" it has a neoprene rubber gasket that seals around the outside of the 4 inch pipe (plumbest part C40-420). There are bolts that get tightened that bring the two halves of the flange together squeezing the gasket against the outside of the 4 inch pipe.

2) 4x2 inch cast iron two finger flange (plumbest part C47-420) this one has a gasket that seals against the inside of the 4 inch pipe. I guess you just shove this into the pipe.

3) 4x3 inch PVC two finger flange (plumbest part C47-43P)...seems pretty much the same as the 4x2 inch cast iron two finger flange but it is plastic.

If I replace the closet flange which replacement should I use??? Is it better to use the flanges that seal inside the pipe or on the outside??

Also...I'm guessing I have to break the old flange to get it off. Should I smack it with a hammer/chisel...cut it with a sawzall....an angle grinder?

I think I would go with door #1. But if it had holes in the flange besides the slots I would tapcon screw or otherwise secure the flange to the floor before setting the toilet for additional insurance. You will be left with cast iron pipe over the flange line. How I take off the extra is to take a adjustable crescent wrench and adjust it so it just fits over the lip of the cast iron and proceed to "nibble" away at the pipe until I get it down to size. Try not to take too big a bite. As for getting the old flange out. Whack it with a hammer, break it up, pull it out and take a sharp chisel and cut the lead ring in two and pull it out. Regards, Tom

Thanks for the advice. I was also thinking of going with option 1. I will do as you specified.

In order to secure the new toilet flange I think I will get things to the appropriate height and then fill in around the flange with some concrete mix that I can then anchor the flange to.

Does this sound OK? The slab is pretty jagged and broken up around the flange so without filling in the area around the flange there would be nothing to anchor to.

I just noticed from a picture that the sloted crecet shape slots in the flange are where the bolts to hold down the toilet go. They didn't set up the flanges that way when they built my house. They used the smaller noched out slots instead... as the old flange sits the crecet shape slots in the flange face directly forward and backward and do not line up with the toilet bolt holes.

I forgot to ask what tapcon screw means??

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommytman

In order to secure the new toilet flange I think I will get things to the appropriate height and then fill in around the flange with some concrete mix that I can then anchor the flange to.
I just noticed from a picture that the sloted crecet shape slots in the flange are where the bolts to hold down the toilet go. They didn't set up the flanges that way when they built my house. They used the smaller noched out slots instead.....as the old flange sits the crecet shape slots in the flange face directly forward and backward and do not line up with the toilet bolt holes.

I would first get a styrafoam (sp) closet wrapper from a local plumbing company and wrap the cast iron pipe. Then I would grout the hole around the pipe with cement. After the cement sets up, pull the wrapper and you'll have space to install the flange plus the cement to secure it to.
Use the crescent slots for the toilet bolts. Position the flange so the center of the slots will fall just about where the closet bolots will go.
A Tapcon Screw is a cement screw. You take a masonry bit smaller then the screw and drill into the cement and the Tapcon screws into that.

Looks like I will need some more supplies. I will get them and do as you have outlined. Thanks for the expert advice.

The flange came off by prying it with a screw driver... not much seal left there...

Anyway option number one looks like it will not work. Some of the slab is too close to the 4 inch pipe and the new flange won't fit unless I somehow brake through 4-5 inches of concrete in several places.

Looks like option 2 or 3 will have to do. I think I will "grout" up to the 4 inch pipe with concrete and then stick one of the 2 finger flanges into the 4 inch pipe... then I can anchor the flange with concrete screws/anchors.

Sound OK? Should I use the PVC or the cast iron flange?

P.S. an angle grinder works well at triming the cast iron pipe... just be careful of the metal dust generated. It likes to get on things and rust thus staining whatever it got on.

Quote:

Looks like option 2 or 3 will have to do. I think I will "grout" up to the 4 inch pipe with concrete and then stick one of the 2 finger flanges into the 4 inch pipe... then I can anchor the flange with concrete screws/anchors.
Sound OK? Should I use the PVC or the cast iron flange?

Sounds right to me. If Ihave a choice I prefer cast iron. If you get too strong with tightening the closet bolts on a PVC flange it's possible for the flange to give so much it will break the slots. While it is more brittle a cast iron flange has no "give" to it.