Ask Me Help Desk - Water meter is running, but I can't find the leak!

Plumbing experts,
I have exhausted almost all of my knowledge to this point trying to find a solution to this problem.

Background: About three years ago when all the toilets and the hot water heater over-pressure valve were leaking, on the advice of the guy at Lowe's, I bought a pressure gauge and put it on the hose bib and the pressure was around 150 psi which is the street pressure. I replaced the water pressure regulator (Watts N45BM1) and the problem was solved. Typical water bill was around $40/month.

Bill creeped up around $120/month about 1 year ago. However, I attributed it to having 3 young teenager girls in the house that suddenly started showering all the time. I thought that $40 to $120 was big jump, but they stay in there till the hot water is gone, so that's my parental battle not a plumbing problem.

About two or three months ago, I noticed that the faucets would blast on when I turned them on. After a few seconds, the high flow and pressure would subside to what I would consider normal. "Oh crap", I thought, the pressure regulator is gone again. However, I put the pressure gauge on the hose bib and it was steady as a rock on 60 psi.

Water bill came yesterday and it was $180. Now I know something is up. I got home and ensured that nothing was turned on and checked the meter - water is flowing. Systematically, I shut down each toilet one at a time and checked the meter for flow - no change, still flowing. With all the toilets off, I shut down the hot water heater - still flowing. I shut down the clothes washer, still flowing. Hose bib still shows 60 psi steady. The faucets are not dripping, but still blast on about half the time when I turn them on. I haven't checked the dishwasher (that's the last device in the house I could shut off). Also, I haven't turned of the whole house valve to see if the leak is in the line from the meter to the house. There is no visible wet spot in the yard to indicate that would be it.

Things I plan to do:

Isolate dishwasher to see if that's it.
Shut off house to see if leak is in the yard.

Questions:

Why are the faucets blasting when I turn them on, but not every time?
Could the bladder tank on the hot water heater play some roll in this?
If a leak is in the yard, why no wet spot?
If it is leak in the yard and no wet spot, how the heck can i find it without digging up the entire line?
Am I missing something?

Please help, I am going crazy thinking about this. I will call a plumber if I have to, but obviously don't want to incur that expense if I don't need to.

Thanks for reading!

Darby

Quote:

Why are the faucets blasting when I turn them on, but not every time?

PRV is defective, probably has debris caught in it that is preventing it from sealing properly when the flow stops. You can replace or disassemble and clean.

Quote:

Could the bladder tank on the hot water heater play some roll in this?

No. There is no bladder in a water heater, it is just a steel tank.

Quote:

If a leak is in the yard, why no wet spot?

That depends on the amount of the leak. The temperature and humidity, the depth of the pipe and the type of soil.

Quote:

If it is leak in the yard and no wet spot, how the heck can i find it without digging up the entire line?

Basically you don't, you simply replace the line.

Turn off the stop valve to the house and check the meter. If meter is running, sit down, have a beer and think about how you want to handle this problem. Do you want to call the plumber, do you want to try to do it yourself.

Then go to Home Depot or Lowe's and purchase a curb cock key. With that you can turn the water off at the street during periods that you don't have any or little use.

You don't have a lawn irrigation system do you? Any out buildings with water service?

Shut off valves do not always work. Do a DYE test on all toilets in the home. Here, take dark food coloring and drop 15 drops into each toilet TANK only and then wait for awhile and check the toilet BOWLS and see if the colored water shows up. If colored water shows up in the toilet bowl of any toilet you have probably found the problem (leaky flapper). Start there and post back, OK?

Mark

Quote:

Originally Posted by hkstroud

PRV is defective, probably has debris caught in it that is preventing it from sealing properly when the flow stops. You can replace or disassemble and clean.

No. There is no bladder in a water heater, it is just a steel tank.

I do have an expansion tank above the HWH, I was referring to that.

That depends on the amount of the leak. The temperature and humidity, the depth of the pipe and the type of soil.
Basically you don't, you simply replace the line.

Turn off the stop valve to the house and check the meter. If meter is running, sit down, have a beer and think about how you want to handle this problem. Do you want to call the plumber, do you want to try to do it yourself.

Then go to Home Depot or Lowe's and purchase a curb cock key. With that you can turn the water off at the street during periods that you don't have any or little use.

You don't have a lawn irrigation system do you? Any out buildings with water service?

No irrigation system or out buildings.

Since you have shut the hot water heater off at the tank we can eliminate the hot water system.
You must shut off the house stop and check the water meter for any action.
The blast on the faucets is caused by a gradual pressure build up. This would be caused by a small leak in the PRV valve. I would turn the water off at the house stop and check the PRV valve and check the for any debris or dirt preventing complete closure. I do not think it sounds like your toilets but answer Marks question anyhow.
Let us know about the line from the meter to the house period.
Back to you, Tom