Hello all!

I've got an Amana side-by-side that apparently lost it's charge, somehow, very slowly.

I called a service guy out to diagnose it, and he told me probably a very small leak in it somewhere, not really economical to repair. Of course, since my wife will insist on a new, $3500 LG bottom-freezer with icemaker in the top door, replacement isn't exactly economical either! (and the service guy did not hold a high opinion of the newer bottom-freezer types, particularly when there's an icemaker on the top!)

So, since I'm moderately handy and have a few cans of R-134a around, I asked him what kind of charge it takes. He said low-side should be around 0 psi, no higher than 5, and high-side pressures run around 140psi. He thought that I could get some refrigerant into it, and it would probably run for months. Since it only holds a few ounces, and R-134a is relatively benign, and cheap as dirt...

SO! I installed a tap on the low-side, engineered up an adapter so I could use my automotive gauges (involving an automotive R-134a/R-12 conversion fitting with a cored out and ground-down schraeder valve), and put some into it.

The technician mentioned that you don't want to have the line "frost back" so much, like you would on a car. But, I guess I put a bit too much in there (5psi on my gauge, though that's very low on the dial) since the line frosts all the way back. I didn't tap the high-side, so I don't know the pressure there.

Here are the questions:

-- Could this condition cause damage?
-- Would this condition make it run constantly? It seems to run more than I think it should...
-- Do I need to check the high-side pressure?
-- Am I crazy to have done this?
-- Does anyone have specific, exact specs and capacities for an Amana ARS2367AW?

Thanks!

Depending upon the way you charged it you could have introduced air into the system. The lines need to be bleed before charging to make sure the refrigerant is in the charge lines and not air. Most folks that do not do this for a living make that mistake.

With air in a 134 system problems will abound. The only way to really charge a system is to use a vacuum pump to pull it down then charge to the correct lever in ounces as provided on the label.

Most service tech never checks the high side on a domestic refer since the charge is accurately weighed in. The only time to check the high side is when there is further trouble that a simple charge will not correct (like plugged capillary's etc.)

You will probably end up buying a new refrigerator since I doubt if your wife will let you get away with not buying one. LOL

Good call!

Actually, I have made that mistake several times, but not this time... I was pretty careful to bleed some out of my gauge set first, and I store the set under nominal pressure. Also, I didn't tap into the line unless the fridge was off, therefore under pressure, since I was worried about there being a vacuum on the low-side, and it sucking air while I was putting on the line tap.

That said, these things don't have a desiccant (filter-drier) in the system like an automotive one, right? On a car, a tiny bit of air (or at least the damaging moisture in it) will get eaten up by the silica gel desiccant, I think.

Still I fully concede that I could have gotten a little air into the system. What would that cause?

I considered bleeding the system down to zero, to start from scratch... I do have one of the air-powered vacuum pumps, and this might be a perfect opportunity to finally spend the $120 for the cheap electric pump from Harbor Freight... it take a lot less convincing to me that I might need a new tool, than a new appliance!

If I were to start from zero, and pull the vacuum, how do I weigh the charge? Just a digital kitchen scale, and watch the can get lighter?

Thanks again for the quick answer!

~aaron

Still i fully concede that i could have gotten a little air into the system. What would that cause?


ANY air is no good. It messes with the refrigerant oil and causes inaccurate metering of the refrigerant and all air contains moisture since the air came from with in the home and not from a compressed dry source.

If i were to start from zero, and pull the vacuum, how do i weigh the charge? Just a digital kitchen scale, and watch the can get lighter?



That might work but I have only use a graduated refrigerant charging cylinder.

This might help some folks. I have a stainless stell upright Frigiaire top freezer.
A service guy came out, and changed the fan in it, it was making a noise. Somehow he caused a leak on the evaporator coil. No one would take responsibility for it, and I won't to go into the story with Frigidaire. The box was only three years old. I know how to do a lot of things, however refrigeration isn't one of them.

Here's what I did. I got a 3/8 shrader valve online and went into the low side. All the internet stuff I read, said put 25 to 35, 45 Psi, on the low side, I did it, nothing happened. So my three year old refrigerator was shot anyway and I had nothing to loose. I didn't want to buy a bunch of gauges, evacuator pumps, etc. and besides all the appliance people I talked to, said don't waste your time trying to fix it.
I went to the auto supply and bought a can of leak mend that would do metal and rubber, which you already know it was metal. I went and got a can of freeon and a gauge that come with the can, and a quick connect to hook up to the shrader valve. I charged the low side to 100 because that is all I could get in it, (No luck) so I thought that was it, I couldn't get 140 psi out of that can - the compressor was running like when you put freon in your vehicle.
So, I unplugged the box and let the pressure go down. Then I managed after a few minutes to add 140 PSI, that was what it read on the inside of the box for the low side PSI. I know it was a small leak, because it was still a little cold after four months of running non stop, but would not make ice.

After I loaded it with 140 PSI within a few minutes I plugged it back in. It went from 72 to 69 degrees, and I thought that I may have fixed it. Left the house came back three hours later, and to my surprise the box had dropped to 5 degrees. Man was I happy!

In closing, I don't know where these people on the net talk about 25 PSI, and all the different PSI readings that they come up with this stuff.
A Tech will only tell you to go by another Frig. People on the phone, I called said to buy another frig, in other words I got no help on this issue AT ALL Period, so I just went for broke. Three months have went by now, and the freezer stays between 0 and 20 Degrees. The moral of this story don't listen to anyone in reference to your refrigerator especially an appliance Tech.

I hope the aformentioned experience will help some pure soul, that they are told, to go buy another refrigerator, like a Sears Tech did me. Another thing, the two techs that come out never even mentioned that you could use a shrader valve or tapping into the line to fix the problem, their quotes exactly from both Dudes at a wack $75.00 service call,"It will cost more to fix it than it would be worth". It cost me about $50.00 and saved a three year $1200.00 very nice stainless steel refrigerator.

I really hope this helps someone and saves them from buying another refrigerator if you have what the pros call "A refrigeration sealed unit problem).

rddriggers, I really appreciate your post.

I've encountered the same responses from techs, "you shouldn't bother fixing it, buy a new one". Of course, that's what the entire appliance industry wants us to do: spend $1200-$3500 on a new refrigerator every 8 years.

I have an Amana side by side on which the compressor failed 2 months after the 8 year warranty expired. I shopped online for a replacement and found one for about $250. Some friends with the equipment swapped out the compressor (this was challenging due to different configuration of tube outlets). Next we have to charge the system. If this works out, I'll be able to get something back for it and the unit will stay out of the landfills for a few more years.

Meanwhile, I have a 1991 refrigerator that was from our previous house. We've had it running in our garage, surviving seasonal temp swings from -25 F to +100 F (Minnesota), for 12 years.

All this tells me one thing: The appliance industry has built in planned obsolescence. They want the units to fail after the warranty and they don't want the techs fixing them. Mankind in general doesn't give a $#|% about doing what's right, only about getting more money.

I also have an amana, frezer on the bottom and went and bought two cans of r134 a from the auto parts and a hose.pumed both in and presto ice cold beer and frozen meat.

Uh... I am a hvac technician licensed and bla bla bla... hell no don't replace the refrigerator goodness if the compressor is working fine... your probably all right... ive never really seen a lot of blockages in a standard refrigeration unit.
Typically there's no real problems other then maybe a defrost timer gone bad, bad fan, etc. However let's say you got a refrigerator that just doesn't get cold enough but gets cold. First step... pull all the food out the refrigerator portion.
Then take off the back lower panel (typically cardboard) Then blow out everything with an air hose. Wait an hour with a thermometer in the frig.
See if the temp drops to at least 40. If it drops... thats a good sign. If it don't drop to 40 or under then we probably have an over or undercharge. Now you can backwoods the charging process if your inclined to... honestly it probably won't hurt.
Install a shrader valve on both the low and high side lines. (we call this process flow and go) connect a hose to the low side and high side... open up the high side while the low side is connected to your freon can... weigh in your refrigerant by either a scale or size of can... let some of it bleed out the open high side for a sec until you think the system has been purged... then close fast... add a small amount extra to make up for loss in bleeding system. Then close high side...
We will be looking for close to 0 psi press. On low side and close to 140 150 psi on high side.. also the high side line should be hot. HOWEVER A LOT OF FRIG PROBLEMS ARE DUE TO JUST A DIRTY COIL. I stress cleaning it out first before doing anything drastic... and other techs... dont post about the lack of vaccuum. It's not the ideal way but for the most part it will work. Thank you from SUPER D

Sorry meant close high side then add small amount... close low side of your guages.. Oops

WOW! That's awsome that you took the time to help us non professional help with this problem,
I had the same thing happened, Service tech came out and sad I probably had a leak in the condenser or somewhere and
Not worth fixing, paid him 70.00 for his service call! So I installed a Line tap on the low side, connected my manifold gauges, saw it was in the minus side
Don't remember amount, but charged until it settled ina t 0 PSI, but there is frost on the low side line, I used A/C Pro refrigerant 134A, with leak seal
On fellow on DIY forum said it may mess up my gauges, anyway call AC Pro and they said no problem, but my freeszer should get down to -10 deg, and it ony 18 deg, and frost on the low side line, can it still be overcharged with 0 psi showing on the low side?
Thanks
Dennis