Ask Me Help Desk - Bubble in Toilet when washer discharges

I recently updated a bathroom in our house and have now noticed a few drain problems. It started at the beginning of the week, about 2 days after I finished the toilet and sink installation. There never was a vent on this side of the house, and it is about 75 feet away from the main bathroom that has a vent. In order to vent it we used a Studor Vent. This seemed to work, but we were getting a smell in the kitchen sink. After fixing that (the 2nd side of the sink was not hooked to the trap correctly) the toilet flushed very slow. I noticed that if I removed the Studor vent, then the toilet flushed fine. Today we had a backup in the line and water came into the basement. I had a the sewer line cleaned out and the drain seems to be working fine, except when the washer discharges. The new toilet begins to get large bubbles. The water bursts up about 2 inches, but never over flows. There is no over flowing anywere else... and this started about 2 or 3 hours after the sewer line was cleaned out. The toilet flushes fine and everything seems to drain fine, but I am worried I have a partial blockage or a venting problem still.
The Sewer line runs from west to east. The first thing in line starting on the west side is the new toilet, then bathroom sink, dishwasher, kitchen sink, then washing machine, then the last bathroom with shower/tub, sink and toilet. I did notice one thing, when we had the back up, the main toilet never had a problem and it seems to have its own line right into the main sewer pipe leading out of the house. When we had the back up, water came up in the shower and gurrgled in many of the drains... As far as I can tell the shower from the main bathroom drains into the same pipe as the others then joins the main sewer before the main toilet. The blockage appeared between the main toilet and the rest of the house...

Thanks for whatever help you can provide.
Jbense

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbense

I recently updated a bathroom in our house and have now noticed a few drain problems. It started at the beginning of the week, about 2 days after I finished the toilet and sink installation. There never was a vent on this side of the house, and it is about 75 feet away from the main bathroom that has a vent. In order to vent it we used a Studor Vent. This seemed to work, but we were getting a smell in the kitchen sink. After fixing that (the 2nd side of the sink was not hooked to the trap correctly) the toilet flushed very slow. I noticed that if I removed the Studor vent, then the toilet flushed fine. Today we had a backup in the line and water came into the basement. I had a the sewer line cleaned out and the drain seems to be working fine, except when the washer discharges. The new toilet begins to get large bubbles. The water bursts up about 2 inches, but never over flows. There is no over flowing anywere else...and this started about 2 or 3 hours after the sewer line was cleaned out. The toilet flushes fine and everything seems to drain fine, but I am worried I have a partial blockage or a venting problem still.
The Sewer line runs from west to east. The first thing in line starting on the west side is the new toilet, then bathroom sink, dishwasher, kitchen sink, then washing machine, then the last bathroom with shower/tub, sink and toilet. I did notice one thing, when we had the back up, the main toilet never had a problem and it seems to have its own line right into the main sewer pipe leading out of the house. When we had the back up, water came up in the shower and gurrgled in many of the drains...As far as I can tell the shower from the main bathroom drains into the the same pipe as the others then joins the main sewer before the main toilet. The blockage appeared between the main toilet and the rest of the house....

Thanks for whatever help you can provide.
Jbense

It sounds like the Studor Vent wasn't venting the group properly and slowed the flush action of the toilet. This might not have been the Studors fault. Can you tell me exactly where the vent was placed in relation to the other fixtures? The toilet bubbles tell me that there is still a partial blockage in the line. A vent problem produces a vacuum that attempts to vent,(pull air) back through a trap or a toilet causing a "gurgle". "Bubbles" occur when the discharge from a toilet or a washer hits a partial blockage and bounces back sending a bubble of air ahead of it. Then it drains past the partial blockage until the next time. I'm with you, if the blockage was upstream from the last toilet then the last toilet would flush normally and not be subject to a back up. And that's where I would start to check. Good luck. Tom

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedball1

It sounds like the Studor Vent wasn't venting the group properly and slowed the flush action of the toilet. This might not have been the Studors fault. Can you tell me exactly where the vent was placed in relation to the other fixtures? The toilet bubbles tell me that there is still a partial blockage in the line. A vent problem produces a vacuum that attempts to vent,(pull air) back through a trap or a toilet causing a "gurgle". "Bubbles" occur when the discharge from a toilet or a washer hits a partial blockage and bounces back sending a bubble of air ahead of it. Then it drains past the partial blockage until the next time. I'm with you, if the blockage was upstream from the last toilet then the last toilet would flush normally and not be subject to a back up. And that's where I would start to check. good luck. Tom

Thanks for the response!
Ok while it may not be correct, the studor vent is on the main line before the toilet comes in... then the toilet connects and then the bathroom sink connects. The line continues down and the dishwasher/kitchen sink connect then the washing machine. The system then makes a left turn and continues toward the city sewer (this is all in the crawl space with not a lot of room to work). Before it hits sewer pipe out of the house, the bathroom shower and sink join it, then there is a bend to the ground where it begins to go under the house wall and around that point the last toilet joins. I think the clog is after the bend and before the last toilet. The sewer guy ran an auger down but could not use the large teeth because of a bend and could not get around it until he switched to a smaller one... so its conceivable that there is a small blockage.
Is it possible to use chemicals to eliminate the rest of the blockage? I think the problem with the venting is there is one vent on the main toilet and no other vent except the newly installed studor at the other end of the line. My feeling is I need a vent somewhere in front of the new installation.

Also on the toilet.. I do not see bubbles, but water comes up and down like a bubble and I do here noise. But I don't see bubbles, almost like a very tiny explosion and causes a small column of water about an inch high. I hear like a gulp, gulp gulp, and usually at the end of the spin cycle, I would assume after water has backed to the toilet.

Thanks,
Jbense

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbense

Thanks for the response!
Ok while it may not be correct, the studor vent is on the main line before the toilet comes in...then the toilet connects and then the bathroom sink connects. The line continues down and the dishwasher/kitchen sink connect then the washing machine. The system then makes a left turn and continues toward the city sewer (this is all in the crawl space with not a lot of room to work). Before it hits sewer pipe out of the house, the bathroom shower and sink join it, then there is a bend to the ground where it begins to go under the house wall and around that point the last toilet joins. I think the the clog is after the bend and before the last toilet. The sewer guy ran an auger down but could not use the large teeth because of a bend and could not get around it until he switched to a smaller one...so its conceivable that there is a small blockage.
is it possible to use chemicals to eliminate the rest of the blockage? I think the problem with the venting is there is one vent on the main toilet and no other vent except the newly installed studor at the other end of the line. My feeling is I need a vent somewhere in front of the new installation.

Also on the toilet..I do not see bubbles, but water comes up and and down like a bubble and I do here noise. But I don't see bubbles, almost like a very tiny explosion and causes a small column of water about an inch high. I hear like a gulp, gulp gulp, and usually at the end of the spin cycle, I would assume after water has backed to the toilet.

Thanks,
Jbense

The bathroom sink,(lavatory) does have its own vent doesn't it? WITHOUT EXCEPTION every fixture that has a trap MUST have a vent or be wet vented back to a fixture that has one. You aren't saying that in the entire system that all you have for vents are a Studor Vent on either end are you? If so no wonder you have drainage problems. Your plumber should have informed you the lack of proper venting contributed to your problems. Tell me I'm wrong. Please! Tom

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedball1

The bathroom sink,(lavatory) does have its own vent doesn't it? WITHOUT EXCEPTION every fixture that has a trap MUST have a vent or be wet vented back to a fixture that has one. You aren't saying that in the entire system that all you have for vents are a Studor Vent on either end are you? If so no wonder you have drainage problems. Your plumber should have informed you the the lack of proper venting contributed to your problems. Tell me I'm wrong. Please!! Tom

Tom,
LOL OK I might have explained a bit wrong... however, yes there is a venting problem for sure. When we bought the house I found only one vent for the entire system. It is located in the front of the house runs up to the attic and out the roof (3 inch cast iron I believe). This is at the end of the run and just before it leaves the house into the sewer. However that was the only vent as far as I could tell on the rest of the system. Now there were a few "accidental" vents. Upon examining the kitchen drain system, the prior owner had the disposal and sink set up for a single sink, not a double. So the 2nd sink ran directly to the drain pipe after the trap. This allowed venting and sewer smell in the kitchen. I was able to fix that and run it correctly... sewer smell gone... and now a venting issue. Essentially the main bathroom is properly vented... but it looks like the rest of the system is not vented...

Now you will have to explain to me what you mean by a wet vent... Right now this is how the pipe runs... Studor Vent , then New Bath Toilet, Then Bathroom sink (with a trap), then the kitchen sink, then the washing machine and then the main bath with a 3 inch pipe that leads to the roof (2 story house). Kind of primitive layout below

Toilet
|----|-----SV
|
BS - with trap
|
|
|
|
Kitch - with Trap
|
|
|
|
|
Wash - Straight pipe to sewer pipe
|
|
|
| 3 inch pipe
------------------------------Main Bath----Vent----------Sewer leaving H

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbense

Tom,
LOL ok I might have explained a bit wrong...however, yes there is a venting problem for sure. When we bought the house I found only one vent for the entire system. It is located in the front of the house runs up to the attic and out the roof (3 inch cast iron I believe). This is at the end of the run and just before it leaves the house into the sewer. However that was the only vent as far as I could tell on the rest of the system. Now there were a few "accidental" vents. Upon examining the kitchen drain system, the prior owner had the disposal and sink set up for a single sink, not a double. So the 2nd sink ran directly to the drain pipe after the trap. This allowed venting and sewer smell in the kitchen. I was able to fix that and run it correctly...sewer smell gone...and now a venting issue. Essentially the main bathroom is properly vented...but it looks like the rest of the system is not vented...

Now you will have to explain to me what you mean by a wet vent... Right now this is how the pipe runs....Studor Vent , then New Bath Toilet, Then Bathroom sink (with a trap), then the kitchen sink, then the washing machine and then the main bath with a 3 inch pipe that leads to the roof (2 story house). Kind of primitive layout below

Toilet
|----|-----SV
|
BS - with trap
|
|
|
|
Kitch - with Trap
|
|
|
|
|
Wash - Straight pipe to sewer pipe
|
|
|
| 3 inch pipe
------------------------------Main Bath----Vent----------Sewer leaving H

A wet vent is where you're venting another fixture through the drain line of a fixture that's vented. Looks like you're attempting to wet vent the entire system with one lonely Studore vent. Shame on your plumber for not informing you that every fixture that has a trap MUST be vented and that you have a straight shot to the sewer with your washer. At least trap the washer. Sewer gas is hazardous to your families health and the methane content is explosive. I would call in a plumber, ( Not the incompetent that failed to inform you of the condition of your drainage system) and see what can be done to vent the unvented and trap the untrapped . Let me know what you are going to do. Tom