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Hello:
If the teachers union forces the city to keep bad teachers on the payroll, doesn't the police union force the city to keep bad cops on the payroll? They DO, of course.
Are the unions EQUIVALENT?? Lemme see.. If a BAD teacher is on the payroll, somebody's kid winds up STUPID.. But, if a BAD cop is on the payroll, somebody's kid winds up DEAD.
excon
When you holler get rid of the bad anything there is always some idiot thinking you mean the good ones too! Ever wonder why good cops/teachers never squeal on the bad actors of their professions?
I am a union guy and I never squealed on my union brothers, or sisters either. Guess I'm part of the problem!
Observe, identify, and retrain. And maybe reassign.
I'm part liberal. I don't like most of the unions. The big old fat cats sitting on billions in assets, the ones too greedy and nearsighted to see jobs leaving the country during the last 40 years, while they fought for the next bloated wage increase.
If anyone wants to rant about all the good unions have done, I just say 'that was then.' And yes, thanks to them, we have a lot of good labor laws. Doesn't justify their existence any more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joypulv
More than ever is their existence justified. No other organizations speak so effectively for the ordinary, common citizen. Yes, being in the middle of the rough and tumble of life, they are susceptible to corruption. It's a constant fight to keep them clean.
But so are the lace curtain pinky-in-the-air plutocrats who are just as susceptible to corruption - only they carry it out with a bit of panache, sprinkling their parlors with greenbacks.
"Bloated" wages are not that at all. Wages represent the fair share due to labor as an equal partner with capital and its owners. As the unions have lost influence, the corresponding effect has been the increasing wealth gap between rich and poor. Coincidence? Hardly. And I'd never call minimum wage "bloated".
Without unions, the citizen, alone, is powerless. He or she must rely on the largesse that falls from the groaning table of the rich. Like Lazarus.
Unions are needed but also to be in a union requires an educated work force to achieve the proper outcome when addressing wages. Another thing that many union workers neglected to do was buy into the products and services they were working for. Instead they went to Walmart and bought cheap thinking their jobs were forever safe. Economics doesn't work that way.
Unions are needed but also to be in a union requires an educated work force to achieve the proper outcome when addressing wages. Another thing that many union workers neglected to do was buy into the products and services they were working for. Instead they went to Walmart and bought cheap thinking their jobs were forever safe. Economics doesn't work that way.
Unions aren't all good, or all bad... I've been in one, the most well known one... and I can rattle off bad stuff they have done or tried that I've seen first hand.. and in one case tried to do... but that was the local, and they backed down when I cornered them with support of some corporate big wheels they could do NOTHING without (remember my comment elsewhere about making all the friends you can) (they tried to screw some senior guys in another area to benefit some junior friends at the same location as them, all union members) and they knew I'd have gone to National about it and they would have lost...
Police and Teachers' unions are very different from the unions that have historically done all the 'good' things. They are government (of whatever level) employee groups. Who do they argue and negotiate with? Where do their wages and benefits come from? The taxpayers. In essence, they're trying to get a better deal from themselves. How can that better anyone?
yup and who do they negotiate with for their benefits ? The very people their unions support with campaign funds .Even FDR saw that as a conflict of interests .Quote:
- Police and Teachers' unions are very different from the unions that have historically done all the 'good' things. They are government (of whatever level) employee groups. Who do they argue and negotiate with? Where do their wages and benefits come from? The taxpayers. In essence, they're trying to get a better deal from themselves. How can that better anyone?
Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
If your union brother raped your daughter, would you "squeal" on him? I'm sure you would. My point, of course with that horrid example, is where do you draw the line? When does "squealing" become "whistle blowing?'
And what is the answer to the question you posed? "Ever wonder why the good ones never squeal on the bad ones."
Yes, I wonder. Why?
Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Yes, the right wing dislikes the police unions also. They like the cops, but not the union. The right wing dislikes all unions (except the one they belong to) because unions are seen as "collectivism" - i.e., socialism.
Teachers and cops are not equivalent. The one is composed of well-educated college graduates, the other is the top rung of the blue-collar jobs, generally requiring only a high-school diploma.
Police work, however, is much more complicated than teaching. We can argue which is more important in the long run for the society, but not which has the immediate greater power. Ultimate street authority is vested in the policeman. He gets a shiny new uniform, a badge, and a gun. The opportunities for corruption are endless. Only a judge has greater power, and that comes much later.
I agree with you that cops need special attention. That's why Civilian Review Boards are necessary for dealing with bad cops when the PBA won't.
Sometimes conflicts of interest can't be avoided. See the current president of the United States. He stands to make a fortune ignoring them.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Most Police Departments these days require an Associate Degree/Certificate to hire. A Bachelor's is a requirement for most Sergeants, at least in Right to Work States.Quote:
Originally Posted by Athos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catsmine
No. Some police departments want applicants to have a degree or some college, but most require only a high school diploma or an equivalent GED.
To enter their Academy, you're correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by Athos
That is an assumption that if irrelevant to the discussion. Trump is an elected official . I'm sure there will be conflicts of interests . It is the job of the opposition to bring them up and demand remedy .In this case striking public service workers ,who are hired to do essential services ,holds the taxpayers hostage with every job action .Their unions throw tons of $$ towards candidates and then once their preferred elected official is in they then negotiate the terms of their contracts . Do you not see what that has done to the budgets of states and local government across the country that don't have the ability to print money to get themselves out of impossible long term liabilities ? Several states are seriously talking about bankruptcy . (most of them are the blue states that are most sympathetic to these public unions ) . Cities across the country like Detroit are already done.Quote:
- Sometimes conflicts of interest can't be avoided. See the current president of the United States. He stands to make a fortune ignoring them.
Do you not see Tom that on the other side of the coin, cabals of rich super pacs buy elected officials to get what they want, and bankrupt local and state economies? Indiana just paid 7 million bucks to keep 800 jobs... do the math! Walmart won't build a super store without tax breaks that affect local economies while taxpayers have to subsides the wages of it's employees!
You have the narrative backwards . Walmart would love to open up in NYC .But the local elite progressive politicians have a hate against Walmart so bad that they'd rather the inner city folks buy over priced goods at bodegas than to shop at a store that offers them affordable goods. Your hate spew against corporate cronyism has nothing to do with public unions who routinely fleece the public .
You mean NYC won't give a multi billion dollar corporation a tax break? We know that those cheap prices come from cheap labor don't we? And a fair living wage fleeces the public?
wrong again NY City Council repeatedly votes to keep them out . The majority of the people want a Walmart store . It is a place to purchase affordable goods ;and a place to get a job. But Sandinista Bill and the city council will not permit it . Walmart isn't looking for special tax breaks .They open where their clientele are . It is the entrenched special interests in the city ,who pull the city council's strings. They provide jobs where none exists ;so as the former emperor said ...get off your high horse .
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