 |
I have always been confused about religion. I don't know if I believe in God or not. I am a person of reason and hard facts. To me, if I can see it, hear it, or touch it it's real. To me, it just seems like facts against God are more logical than facts for God. I want to believe in God, but there are so many questions unanswered. Can anyone give me an logical argument that can semi-prove God's existence?
Nope, if you can't see the facts by looking at God's creation, there is no hope for you.
I agree with the first implication: The Universe, our Earth and even a simple plant seem designed to me. I think it is perfectly logical to see intelligent design in the complexities that we live amongst.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck
I cannot agree with the 2nd part. No one is without the possibility (aka hope) of seeing this reality.
Worthbeads,Quote:
Originally Posted by worthbeads
As you have said you are a person of reason and hard facts,
What have you come up with in explanation for the whole universe running like clockwork?
And in the universe I include every living thing that exists, the known and the unknown to us,in water,in oceans,in the land,in the air.
I also would like a scientific explanation for the fact that earth is protected by layers of atmosphere.
The earths core is molten lava and yet unless a volcanic eruption occurrs we are relatively safe from the heat of the core.
Each flower that exists is pollinated at different times,by different methods,by different mediums that already exist on earth, how do you give an explanation to how perfectly this is carried out?
I am not asking to start an argument or to provoke you.
These are just some questions for you to ponder as you think about choosing to believe or not.
At least you have not discarded one for the other withour a thought, you wish to know and you wish to believe, but with proof (maybe to ease yourself,or to explain to others why you believe)
Believing in the Almighty does not mean that you have to give up reason and facts.It just means that reason and proof will lead you to the Almighty if you really look,learn and use your intelligence.:)
Here is a link to Twenty Arguments For The Existence Of God. Check it out, I think it's a good read.
Apologetics.com: Challenging Believers to Think and Thinkers to Believe
Worth, just for my own curiosity, why do you "want to believe in God"?
To me that seems like an absurd thing to say.
All of those things can be explained with Science.Quote:
Originally Posted by firmbeliever
I want to believe in God and a heaven so my soul will live on.
That doesn't make sense to me worth, if your soul is going to live on, it will live on regardless of your belief, similarly if souls do not live on, they will do so regardless of your belief.
Yeah, but what if my soul lives on in some sort of hell? At my faith level right now I am most likely not assured to stay out of hell.
Ok well think of god like this: whenever you feel the wind blowing it's there. You know it is and you believe that it is even though you can't see it, it's pretty much the same thing about god. I suggest you get a New King James Version Bible. Read some of and if you don't understand it then go to a person who does have one. If anyone tells you that its just a stupid book they're wrong and everything that happens and will happen is true no matter what. So please take my advice I wouldn't steer you to the wronge path!Quote:
Originally Posted by worthbeads
If you're worried about burning in hell for eternity because of your current lack of faith, then fix it. "Find" your faith. Accept Jesus into your heart as your personal savior, repent, have a personal relationship with god, go to church, pray, read the bible, teach others the bible - immerse yourself. Then you can be "saved".Quote:
Originally Posted by worthbeads
If that sounds like too much work (or a load of hooey), carry on being a heathen and don't worry about where your soul is going for eternity because you don't have one anyway.
Oh, for the first option you also have to hope that you picked the "right" religion... because if not, well, off to hell for you!
That seems a bit weird to me, why would you get sent to heaven if the only reason for believing was to avoid hell?
You have to study and figure out the great questions of existence for yourself! :)
There are a huge number of books available to you regarding spirituality, god and the meaning of life. IT IS A LIFETIME STUDY. Not intense, but relaxed when study is needed. Never forget that you need to **live** in order to have subject matter to think about in relation to the great questions! It is not for everyone, for some, prepackaged answers-called religion suit them.
There is no proof that there is a supernatural inhabited by entities like devils, gods, imps, and so on. Belief in a supernatural is called **faith** because there is no proof whatsoever. People are called believers; they have faith and derive a lot of comfort from their beliefs.
So, go out and live and learn!
Love Life!
Worthbeads,Quote:
Originally Posted by worthbeads
How can you separate the Almighty and science.Science just explains(tries to explain) the Almighty's creations, which does not mean that Almighty is out of the picture whenever science comes into it.
I cannot separate one from the other.
For me science sheds light on the creations and highlights the Creators work, so that we could understand the complexity of our existence yet the simpleness of our being!
Something's cannot be fully explained by science as the human knowledge is somewhat limited.
Science cannot explain death, death certificates mention the reason of death under normal circumstances as heart failure,but they cannot explain what happens after death.
Science can explain the process of reproduction,but the miracle is that one tiny cell contains all the information needed to become a fully grown human, living and growing inside the mother till birth.
For me Faith and belief is understanding science to know the Creator and to believe in His handiwork and my soul finds the path to peace.:)
Quote:
Originally Posted by worthbeads
Torture wasn't what Adam was told would happen to him if he sinned. Death, the condition he had been in prior to being created was what would happen to him.
Genesis 2: 16
16 And Jehovah God also laid this command upon the man: “From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. 17 But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die.”
NWT
If indeed torture was to be administered for whatever twisted reason, because I can't conceive of any other reason to torture someone for all eternity except a twisted one, then Adam would have been told so that he could make an INFORMED choice.
Torture is considered a cruel, inhumane, and degrading punishment and is outlawed by the United Nations. Those are the moral standards that all civilized creatures are expected to follow. Entities or creatures or humans who can reason and employ torture as punishment are considered barbarians and are liable to receive judicial retribution. THAT ALONE SHOULD BE ENOUGH TO CONVINCE US THAT THE HELLFIRE INTERPRETATION IS THE WRONG ONE. But unfortunately it is still alive and thriving and poses an insult to the very holy character of God. Which, of course, is what its author designed it for.
Excerpt:
Torture is a serious violation of human rights and is strictly prohibited by international law. As the use of torture strikes at the very heart of civil and political freedoms, it was one of the first issues dealt with by the United Nations (UN) in its development of human rights standards.
Human Rights Learning Centre: Study Guide on Torture, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment
Last time I checked God was not a member of the UN and most likely cares little what the UN decides.
Mans ideas are just that, and in the end, what God says and does is right because it is his will and judgement. And it does not matter what man wants. And of course non beleivers will always say that hell is wrong because they can not admitor accept that is their fate.
Why is there religion? Do most people want just to be a better person, or do they want to go to heaven?Quote:
Originally Posted by Capuchin
The way I see it, it looks like science contradicts religion.Quote:
Originally Posted by firmbeliever
Worth, perhaps you should be agnostic. :)
Agnosticism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
You seem to have big doubts about religion, and you've posted this question in the Christianity forum, so I'm guessing you are thinking, "Christian or not?" There are a lot of other religions in this world, and perhaps there is one out there which suits you. Perhaps you are suited to having no religion. Christianity seems to not be it, so why not investigate other religions and see if something "fits"? Or invent your own religion. Or live your life the way you think is most moral and proper and don't worry about it. Religion (organized or otherwise) isn't for everyone. There's no law that says you MUST have a religion, so sit back and don't worry about it so much. You'll figure it out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck
So you know my fate based on the fact that I don't believe in a God who punishes via torture? Then you are he?
About UN membership, it isn't required for anyone to agree with its ethical principles. That God doesn't care is simply your opinion which goes 100% contrary to the Bible.
God is not a mysterious entity which keeps his personaity, moral standards, future plans,
And expectations of himself and his creatures a secret as you imply. Neither are his moral statutes beyond our comprehension nor his mental processs so alien to ours that we can
Expect anything and everything from the Him.
Actually, that's why he provided us with the Bible, so that there could be an understanding between us and our creator. So if he indeed appears capable of anything because he appears mysterious and beyond comprehension, it isn't because he hasn't revealed himself as otherwise.
BTW
The reason I replied to the questioner in the manner I did was not because I am seeking debate. It is simply because I feel that he deserves to be told the TRUTH about who God is an from my viewpoint and that of millions of other Christians who don't accept everything which the CC says as sacrosanct, Jehovah God isn't that kind of God..
| All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:33 PM. |