Italy has seen the light they will block entry to migrant rescue ships, they have realised that the only way to stem the flow is not to allow the migrants to land. As they pile up in Libyan ports a better solution will have to be found, but they will not be drowning because the people smugglers will loose their product. This solution worked in the Indian ocean and given the chance it will work in the Mediterranian. What it takes is will and not listening to the bleeting of sheep. EUROPE is entitled to be european, not african

Yeah the trend towards desperate right wing loony bigots pervades the Europeans. Must be terrible to be so afraid of others.

The question is not of fear but of soveriengty, no you outsource your immigration program to criminals, this is what you miss aside from the impacts such as criminal behaviour

That's exactly the rationale the Dufus spews. You have that in common on this issue. That's why his doctrine has caused such a stir and the courts have made him backtrack and correct his actions. He probably cannot comply. I doubt if you could either if you were the author of such poor policy.

Maybe YOU are more competent than the Dufus.

Well of course I am, you fail to separate compassion from reality, if everyone is reduced to the lowest common denominator no one prospers. What good is that, if people are to be helped it is not by having them leave their homes but by lifting them up where they are put your investment there instead of China take your troops from Afghanistan and destroy the criminals closer to home. Your foreign policies do nothing but create problems

The threat of DEATH is a great motivation to leave home. Where is your compassion now?

Who is responsible? Ask yourself, you are maybe you deserve these people

Deserves got nothing to do with how we deal with the challenge. We have been dealing with migrants our whole history and built a pretty great nation because of MIGRATION. Not perfect but it's still a works in progress.

I thought it was the left that said we can't solve all the world's problems . I guess it is ok for us the import all the world's problems . You see Macron ? He went to Nigeria and told the people to stay home and help build their own country .

I'm so glad Italy has stood up to the illegal invasion. Crime has skyrocketed in Italy with these people (if you can really call them that) hovering on street corners , breaking into houses and robbing people in the streets. It hasn't been safe to be out at night since the flood of Albanians into Italy. And it used to be even in a port City which typically tends to have the most crime.

And that's speaking as the only person here who can comment from personal experience over the last 30+ years how its actually been in Italy.

THe only people welcoming the Illegal horde were the Communist party, and the Socialist party (which changed their name a couple years ago to Partito Democratico della Sinsistra) because like the Democrats here, they want to make them citizens, give them free stuff so they can vote for them. Not because ANY of them contribute to society.

Yeah them Italians were screwing things up all by themselves and didn't need much help.

Oh the Italians are far from perfect... trust me there, but at least it was safe at night, its not even safe during the day any more.

See how tal has a go at anything that doesn't fit his view of lax borders and lax laws

Not at all Clete, actually I'm a process and procedure type of guy, and your ilk is a knee jerk kill them all kind of people. You would arrest a guy running out of a burning building for jaywalking, and arson. The irony is you ran from a burning building and called it exploring which is typical elitist snobbery to justify bigotry and a lazy way to ignore but for the grace of God go I.

It's not a judgement just an observation to the lazy (There's that word again) negative hyperbole you apply to others not like you, while declaring your PASSION. I suspect your COMPASSION is severely limited for whatever reason, while you mischaracterize others.

If wanting a HUMANE process by which to apply the law is LAX, then so be it. I take that as a compliment from a bigoted piker.

So THANKS!

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Not at all Clete, actually I'm a process and procedure type of guy, and your ilk is a knee jerk kill them all kind of people. You would arrest a guy running out of a burning building for jaywalking, and arson. The irony is you ran from a burning building and called it exploring which is typical elitist snobbery to justify bigotry and a lazy way to ignore but for the grace of God go I.

It's not a judgement just an observation to the lazy (There's that word again) negative hyperbole you apply to others not like you, while declaring your PASSION. I suspect your COMPASSION is severely limited for whatever reason, while you mischaracterize others.

If wanting a HUMANE process by which to apply the law is LAX, then so be it. I take that as a compliment from a bigoted piker.

So THANKS!

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I used to think you were a reasonable person but you have shown yourself to be like all leftists with your diatribe, you think progress comes from a do nothing attitude and using OPM

Quote:

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See how tal has a go at anything that doesn't fit his view of lax borders and lax laws

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Your very inaccurate personal swipe elicited my response. I have consistently and reasonably embraced what many religions and cultures have accepted as good human behavior toward needy strangers and even codified into LAW a reasonable policy and process to deal with them. You characterize your position as PASSION, but fear and hate is what you spew.

Personally I think progress comes from COLLECTIVE effort, and good ORDERLY direction.

Hurrah and how does illegal migration fit into that ideal unless you want to applaud the collective effort to defy your laws and make an disorderly procession across your border

Seeking asylum is not illegal in my country. Only the looniest most racists right wingers and the DUFUS say it is and resort to terror tactics and inhuman treatment under the pretext of illegality to wage a war on men women and children from South America.

wrong.... there are specific rules for asylum seekers . ….again most of our problems is that laws don't get observed .

Asylum has three basic requirements.

First, an asylum applicant must establish that he or she fears persecution in their home country.


Second, the applicant must prove that he or she would be persecuted on account of one of five protected grounds: race ,religion ,nationality ,political opinion ,or a particular social group.


Third, an applicant must establish that the government is either involved in the persecution, or unable to control the conduct of private actors.

Each year, the President sends a proposal to the Congress for the maximum number of refugees to be admitted into the countryas specified under section 207(e) (1)-(7) of the Immigration and Nationality Act.
This number is known as the "refugee ceiling". That is the maximum number of asylum seekers that can be legally permitted to enter the country .

Thanks for making my point Tom. Though you have pointed out the REQUIREMENTS under the law, and described the process you make no illegality case for asylum seekers save until AFTER the process has been completed in a court of law. Even still coming here outside the legal process is a misdemeanor for first time offenders.

Do you think its legal to deny asylum seekers the due process under the law you outlined, and extort them by separating them from their children to drop that claim of asylum? As an aside The Dufus is now giving asylum seekers ankle bracelets and court dates, and keeping families together during that process.

After the asylum seeker process is completed a whole lot of them are indeed deported.

So it's technically incorrect to refer to an asylum seeker as an illegal until the end of the process, not before it has started. <Start RANT NOW!> Only right wing loony racists ignore those important nuances and lumps people together and calls them derogatory names like animals. Making one less than justifies inhumane treatment. <END RANT!>

That's exactly what The Dufus tried to do.

What you fail to recognise Tal is that no one is against genuine refugees seeking asylum however the vast majority of those moving around the world, not just from South America, are economic migrants and there is a limited ability in any nation to accommodate them. Admittedly wars have an impact, but there are no wars in South America, there is however the impact of American foreign policy since no other nation dominates the region with its "war" on drugs, and its "war" on poverty. If you were truly making a "war" on terror you would have worked to eliminate the terror that drives these people instead of bombing the crap out of people far away on some pretext which is ill considered and based on lies. You have the mendacity to tell us we are against migration

the process begins before they cross the border . Once they cross the border illegally their application should be denied and they should be deported immediately . Due process is the rubber stamp sending them back .

When they cross the border legally ;detention is still the 1st step . They have to apply and prove they are eligible under the law I described .They must demonstrate 'credible fear' .Demonstrating credible fear is also not a guarantee they’ll be granted asylum; it only allows them to move on to the next step in the process. Here's the rub IF denied they can request a judicial hearing AND that is where the system is backing up and is being abused .

The vast majority of Central and South Americans who appear before judges are denied asylum because in fact they are escaping economic situations and not persecution.

Clete they are victims of the Bolivarian Marxist model their idiot dictators adopt.

No one doubts hardship Tom but hardship can be allievated many ways, tal, should advocate for more aid directed at poverty in these places instead of advocating for migration on the basis your country accepted migrants, very few countries didn't accept migrants in one form or another but saying we are all migrants doesn't address domestic or foreign problems arising from migration around the world. People have come to say enough, you can't just decide to cross our borders, flaut our laws and do whatever you want

Tom, I don't accept your thesis they are victims of Marxism. I think they are victims of foolishness. Bolivar rose up against tyranny and they too should rise against tyranny

yes of course . that was Macron's message to Nigerians .

I have already advocated for an orderly humane process for people displaced by war, poverty and corruption and criminal activity in their homeland. Short of an invasion into these lands and forcing a plan down their throats to end the negative consequences, solutions are not forth coming by anyone, despite the BILLIONS already being spent. For sure you cannot double whammy these migrants and refugees with more cruelty and mistreatment than they got at home. That's something we CAN control. How we treat the least, those in need.

So No I do not advocate migration or refugees running from whatever their home is beset with, but I can certainly understand it and assign no BLAME to them! So Clete, please read your own bible and follow it's instruction on how to treat others while we work on the bigger, better solutions through cooperation. The nuance seems to be lost on you.


Pains me to say do not follow our current example as it's corrupted, unfortunately by a leader who is a lying, cheating, loudmouth, bully who kicks those that are down, and brings out the very worst of us while he enriches himself. He creates more problems than he solves and has enough sycophants that agree with him to continue his path to destruction.

We cannot ignore the very good example of the DACA kids, who came and stayed and are ready to contribute to a better country HERE! Nor the success story of the history of migrants and refugees who have helped build this great nation. To NOT turn away from that successful formula is is what I advocate.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by talaniman

I have already advocated for an orderly humane process for people displaced by war, poverty and corruption and criminal activity in their homeland. Short of an invasion into these lands and forcing a plan down their throats to end the negative consequences, solutions are not forth coming by anyone, despite the BILLIONS already being spent. For sure you cannot double whammy these migrants and refugees with more cruelty and mistreatment than they got at home. That's something we CAN control. How we treat the least, those in need.

So No I do not advocate migration or refugees running from whatever their home is beset with, but I can certainly understand it and assign no BLAME to them! So Clete, please read your own bible and follow it's instruction on how to treat others while we work on the bigger, better solutions through cooperation. The nuance seems to be lost on you.


Pains me to say do not follow our current example as it's corrupted, unfortunately by a leader who is a lying, cheating, loudmouth, bully who kicks those that are down, and brings out the very worst of us while he enriches himself. He creates more problems than he solves and has enough sycophants that agree with him to continue his path to destruction.

We cannot ignore the very good example of the DACA kids, who came and stayed and are ready to contribute to a better country HERE! Nor the success story of the history of migrants and refugees who have helped build this great nation. To NOT turn away from that successful formula is is what I advocate.

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I didn't mean advocate here, you undoubtedly have heard of sanctions which you used effectively to destroy Iraq and are making life difficult for North Korea, how about sanctioning these nations where these people come from, start with Mexico and the idea of a wall may become attractive. DACA is a house of Reps problem, all they need is legislation. It can't be a successful formula if there are 11 million illegal immigrants

The whole immigration debate is a disaster engineered by the BIG mouth of the Dufus with his lies and exagerations and that includes the DACA kids. Red meat for his stupid base. The actual data proves that if one cares to read it. Using your numbers of 11 million undocumented non citizens running around 40% actually visa holders who haven't left when their time expired over at least 15 years, well you do the math.

You have to be a zip darn FOOL to believe HALF of what the Dufus says!

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Originally Posted by talaniman

The whole immigration debate is a disaster engineered by the BIG mouth of the Dufus with his lies and exagerations and that includes the DACA kids. Red meat for his stupid base. The actual data proves that if one cares to read it. Using your numbers of 11 million undocumented non citizens running around 40% actually visa holders who haven't left when their time expired over at least 15 years, well you do the math.

You have to be a zip darn FOOL to believe HALF of what the Dufus says!

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Are you saying there was no debate before Trump began his campaign. You are projecting the problem which predated him on him. It doesn't matter how you measure it; visa overstayers are illegal immigrants. Just because they had some legality at some point in time is no excuse, they are now illegal. I mean, how stupid can you be, to allow a visa to expire and then stay on, running the gauntlet. Demonstrates a certain loyalty to your country of residence, doesn't it. The darn FOOLs are those who game the system and you defend them

I just state the facts of the matter and the whole immigration debate is nothing but a partisan talking point to rev up the political bases and no where near the crisis that people seem to put on them. Yeah I know it's been raging for decades and costing fortunes, but it took the Dufus to raise it to the levels we see now. I suppose he needs to deliver all the red meat he can just to keep from being booted from the White House on his orange a$$!

You may as well join the crowd languishing in The Dufus peeing on your head. Even his red meat is nothing but soy and food coloring.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by talaniman

I just state the facts of the matter and the whole immigration debate is nothing but a partisan talking point to rev up the political bases and no where near the crisis that people seem to put on them. Yeah I know it's been raging for decades and costing fortunes, but it took the Dufus to raise it to the levels we see now. I suppose he needs to deliver all the red meat he can just to keep from being booted from the White House on his orange a$$!

You may as well join the crowd languishing in The Dufus peeing on your head. Even his red meat is nothing but soy and food coloring.

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Well undoubtedly what passes for hamburger over there of soy and food colouring, maybe Trump is suffering from eating too much soy