Ask Me Help Desk - Presidential dictatorship

Presidential dictatorship

When Bush was in office, I remember seeing a lot of complaints on this board that Bush was acting like a dictator. People complained that Bush was tapping phones illegally in a violation of their rights when the NSA was listening in on conversations between foreign terrorists and their contacts in the USA. People complained that Bush was violating their rights because the government had the right to monitor electronic records from libraries under the USA PAtriot Act. They complained that Bush was violating their rights by forcing them to go through extra security at airports. They complained about illegal search and seizure when he tracked and froze the bank accounts of terrorists and terrorist-funding organizations. Bush was becoming a dictator, they complained.

Never mind that all this was done legally AND with the interest of protecting the people of the USA from another 9-11-like terrorist attack. Never mind that there has been no recorded case of any US citizen's rights being violated in any way by these laws and actions. Never mind that the actions of the agencies involved were not indescriminant, and no innocents ever got caught up in these actions. Bush was a dictator and a despot who wanted to control every aspect of our lives... or so people complained.

Yet now we have a President who wishes to control what you drive, how much gas you use in your car, what lightbulbs you can buy, how much you can earn, how much bonus money you can take home at the end of the year, and (through new legislation he is proposing) what you can eat and drink and smoke, He controls two of the three largest auto manufacturers, ten of the twelve largest banks, and the largest insurance company. He is trying to take over your medical insurance as well, and may very well be successful at it, which would give him direct control of the sources of about 20% or more of national GDP. He truly is taking control of literally every aspect of your lives.

Yet we hear not a peep from those who claim to have been afraid of Bush because he was a dictator trying to control our lives.

<Wind rustling in the trees>

<crickets chirping>

<owls hooting>

Where are all the complaints of Presidential Dictatorship now?

Hyporites of the world, unite!!

Elliot

That is the same crowd that still believe he is the messiah or the second coming of Christ. Do you actually expect them to bash him? Elliot you must still be smoking that funny tobacco that grows in the woods and is tended by wild eyed gun toting crazies who have no trust in the governments ability to do better for us than we ourselves can do.:D

Quote:

Originally Posted by 450donn

That is the same crowd that still believe he is the messiah or the second coming of Christ. do you actually expect them to bash him? Elliot you must still be smoking that funny tobacco that grows in the woods and is tended by wild eyed gun toting crazies who have no trust in the governments ability to do better for us than we ourselves can do.:D

No, I don't expect them to bash Obama the way they attacked Bush even though they have more reason to do so now. That's exactly the point I'm trying to make.

And I don't smoke... asthma. :cool:

Elliot

I believe he also wants to control your home thermostat, how much water you can use for a shower, and require energy efficiency inspections before you can sell your home... and control the media.

Don't forget he's considering expanding unlimited detention for detainees, is continuing renditions and spending us into oblivion... all complaints these people had about Bush.

Quote:

<Wind rustling in the trees>

<crickets chirping>

<owls hooting>

I'm not around much on line but I've been hearing a lot out here in the real world from people who voted for Obama. I hear many of them are having serious second thoughts and concerns and are even now afraid of the changes Obama is making.

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Originally Posted by thewiseoldwoman

I'm not around much on line but I've been hearing alot out here in the real world from people who voted for Obama. I hear many of them are having serious second thoughts and concerns and are even now afraid of the changes Obama is making.

It's a bit late for buyer's remorse from moderates who voted for Obama. All sales are final. No deposit no return. They voted for him, now they're stuck with him. They made their beds, now they have to sleep in them.

Under normal circumstances, I would have no problem with that. These are the consequences of the actions of the people who voted for him. The only problem is that those of us who didn't vote for him and who knew this was going to happen, who warned about this stuff literally YEARS ago are suffering along with everyone else.

Still, if it causes Americans to wake up and smell the coffee so that we can FIX the problems Obama and his ilk cause, it might just be worth it to suffer for a year or two. I'm just afraid that so much of what Obama does is going to be irreparable or else is going to cost so much money that even our kids and grandkids are going to suffer the consequences. A year or two is a long time, especially when the Dems have a fillibuster-proof majority.

Elliot

Don't you guys have anything better to do on a holiday weekend?

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Don't you guys have anything better to do on a holiday weekend?

Yep. Spent the day with my kids playing ball and going out for pizza. They're asleep now, and I'm bored. What's your point?

Elliot

Quote:

Originally Posted by 450donn

That is the same crowd that still believe he is the messiah or the second coming of Christ.

No, just another politician actually. Pretty much like the so called first Christ. A good politician with the ability to lead and inspire people. Certainly no messiah. Its you guys on the right who tend to get caught up in your religious connotations.

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Originally Posted by ETWolverine

What's your point?

The obvious one.

We didn't get into this mess overnight, and we won't get out of it overnight. Give the guy some slack.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

The obvious one.

We didn't get into this mess overnight, and we won't get out of it overnight. Give the guy some slack.

Oh no. I sense a "where was Bush's slack" post coming...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skell

Oh no. I sense a "where was Bush's slack" post coming.....

He got elected a second time. That was his slack. He used it up during the next four years.

YUP, he made his mistakes. But it is now time for Nobama to step up and admit that HIS policies and actions are not working too. He needs to stop the blame game one of these days. Or is the anointed one going to keep blaming the right wing for all of his four years?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 450donn

YUP, he made his mistakes. But it is now time for Nobama to step up and admit that HIS policies and actions are not working too. He needs to stop the blame game one of these days. Or is the anointed one going to keep blaming the right wing for all of his four years?

We're still in process. Give it time. The Repubs took a few years to get us to this place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

The obvious one.

We didn't get into this mess overnight, and we won't get out of it overnight. Give the guy some slack.

Um, no. If we're supposed to base things on the already tired "we didn't get into this mess overnight, and we won't get out of it overnight" mantra, then why is he trying to solve everything at once? He's biting off a helluva a lot more than Americans should have to chew. Where the heck is the results from his first major initiative, stimulus money? We just lost another half a million jobs. Now he's ramming cap and trade and health care down our throats and NONE of it with the promised time for us to review what they're passing. Jesus people, they don't even know what they're passing because they haven't read it. It's past time for Americans to say hell no... he doesn't deserve any slack.

Quote:

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Um, no. If we're supposed to base things on the already tired "we didn't get into this mess overnight, and we won't get out of it overnight" mantra, then why is he trying to solve everything at once? He's biting off a helluva a lot more than Americans should have to chew. Where the heck is the results from his first major initiative, stimulus money? We just lost another half a million jobs. Now he's ramming cap and trade and health care down our throats and NONE of it with the promised time for us to review what they're passing. Jesus people, they don't even know what they're passing because they haven't read it. It's past time for Americans to say hell no...he doesn't deserve any slack.

And if he sat there on his duff and dithered and threw out a panacea now and then, you'd say, "Man, why is that dude taking his sweet time? We don't have time!"

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

He got elected a second time. That was his slack. He used it up during the next four years.

You don't have to convince me WG. I totally agree.

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Originally Posted by Skell

You don't have to convince me WG. I totally agree.

Exactly

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

And if he sat there on his duff and dithered and threw out a panacea now and then, you'd say, "Man, why is that dude taking his sweet time? We don't have time!"

LOL, not me, I'm a firm believer in the less time government spends 'fixing' things the better off we are. Nevertheless, he spent the first month or more of his administration preaching unending doom and gloom about the economy when he should have been cheer leading. That's not asking for a panacea, it's part of his job... not unnecessarily saying the exact things to make people more fearful and protective of their livelihoods and assets at a time when they needed a little confidence. He's doing way too much, way too fast at a cost that's unsustainable and we'd all be fools if we say nothing while he ruins this country.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

We're still in process. Give it time. The Repubs took a few years to get us to this place.

The Democrats have been in charge of the purse strings for the past 2 1/2 years. Perhaps if they hadn't wasted their promise to rein in spending on seeking revenge against Bush - and acted on his numerous warnings about Freddie and Fannie - we might not be in this position.

come to think of it you didn't know what freedom was, that's because you had too much of it and you didn't value it. But don't worry when the energy efficient light bulbs start exploding and filling your home with deadly vapour you can remember Bush who only did that sort of thing somewhereelse, and when you have to drive an energy efficient vehicle made in China don't worry they have perfected the Volkswagen, but Elliot, old mate, just remember that Obama isn't on the side of your people the way Bush was, so Israel may have to get real about living with the Palastinians, that is, if Obama doesn't invite them to migrate to the US to balance out the hispanics.:rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

The obvious one.

We didn't get into this mess overnight, and we won't get out of it overnight. Give the guy some slack.

How much slack should we give him?

In 6 months, he's quadrupled the budget deficit, increased spending 3-fold, increased the national debt by close to 10% for this year alone, and another 30-40% over the next 10 years (so far), taken control of 10 of the top 12 banks, 2 of the top 3 auto makers, and the largest insurance company, and has stated his intention of taking over the health system of this country. He has also passed legislation that tells individuals what lightbulbs they can use, how high they can heat their homes, how much gas they can use in their cars, and how much they can breath before being taxed for their exhalations (yes, that is one of the effects of the Cap & Trade bill), as well as introducing legislation abou what foods you can eat, what drinks you can drink and what you can smoke.

How much more slack can we afford to give him?

Elliot

Since January 20 2009, the Dems have been in charge of the Presidency, the House and the Senate. But the cry of the Dems from day one has been that everything that Obama is doing is the fault of Bush... Bush made Obama do it.

NOW, Obama has a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate.

Do we Republicans now have permission to say that anything that Obama does from this point on is HIS and his alone? Can we stop blaming the actions of this Marxist on his predecessor yet?

Or is it all still Bush's fault, even though Obama is in full control of the government at this point?

Elliot

Quote:

Originally Posted by paraclete

come to think of it you didn't know what freedom was, that's because you had too much of it and you didn't value it. but don't worry when the energy efficient light bulbs start exploding and filling your home with deadly vapour you can remember Bush who only did that sort of thing somewhereelse, and when you have to drive an energy efficient vehicle made in China don't worry they have perfected the Volkswagen, but Elliot, old mate, just remember that Obama isn't on the side of your people the way Bush was, so Israel may have to get real about living with the Palastinians, that is, if Obama doesn't invite them to migrate to the US to balance out the hispanics.:rolleyes:

Clete,

Yesterday Biden made some comments on the Sunday morning news programs in which he essentially gave tacit approval to Israel to take whatever action they deem necessary vis-à-vis Iran. I don't know if that is Obama's policy (probably not), but Biden essentially said that Israel has the right to take whatever action it deems necessary if it sees and existential threat just as the USA would take any action against what it sees as an existential threat. This is the most pro-Israeli-action statement vis-à-vis Iran that any member of the Obama Admin has made to date.

As far as the two-state option is concerned, there is already a de-facto 2 state situation on the ground. The PA already controls the West Bank and Gaza. Israel already recognizes the PA as the de-facto government of the West Bank and Gaza. The conditions for statehood put forth by Netanyahu (recognition and acceptance of Israel's soveriegnty, rejection of the call for the destruction of Israel and disarmament of the PA, and East Jerusalem is NOT to be made a part of the PA state) are all reasonable conditions. Netanyahu has put something reasonable and negotiable on the table. And as we have seen in the past, the Palestinians won't accept those conditions and won't even negotiate on these conditions, which means there will be no Palestinian state. And it won't be Israel that rejects the idea of a two-state solution. It will be the PA. Obama will be as disappointed by the PA leadership as Clinton was by Arafat, who similarly rejected negotiations in good faith.

So I see no problem.

Elliot

When you lose financial freedom, loss of all the other freedoms will follow.

How far are we from that right now?

Obama hasn't turned his full attention to gun grabbing. YET.

OH but that is next on HIS agenda! The dems are practicing snatch and grab at a far faster pace then any political organization in the history of the World. At this pace, we may have just seen the last Independence day celebration of this country!

Actually, Gal, my opinion is that if we lose our gun rights and gun freedoms, all other freedoms will follow. THAT scares me.

Historically speaking, every government dictatorship began with banning weapons in the hands of civillians. In Germany it was the Nurenburg laws. In Japan, only the Samurai were allowed to carry weapons. In China, only members of the Emperial Government were allowed to go armed. In Midevil Europe, weapons were tightly controlled as well, including the size of the bow you could have to hunt for food and swords were illegal for all except the government leadership and their knights. (That's why the Quarterstaff became the weapon of choice of most peasants of the period.) The Soviet Union controlled gun ownership very tightly as well in order to stay in power.

The Founders, in their wisdom, saw this historical fact --- that governments become despotic by first taking the guns out of the hands of the people --- and specifically wrote the Constitution making it illegal for the government to do so here. They knew what they were doing.

Yes, Obama is trying to take control of every part of our lives. He is controlling us financially through his various spending bills and government power grabs of businesses. He is controlling how we travel (and by extension how FAR we travel) by controlling the price of fuel needed to travel and the conditions under which that fuel is used through his Cap & Trade bill. He is trying to control our lifespan, our access to health coverage, and by extension our very bodies with his nationalization of health care.

But as long as he doesn't control guns, he doesn't control US, because there is always the possibility that if he goes too far and grabs too much power in violation of the Constitution, enough people with guns will band together to stop the power grab.

But if he manages to get his hand on guns and eliminate them from the hands of the people... that is when we are really and truly screwed, because then we will no longer have the power to stop him.

Dangerous ground.

Elliot

The gun grab thing is why the situation in Wyoming (I think) is so interesting. Maybe some one more familiar with that will comment here.

There is something new developing that we all need to learn about. Citizens grand juries at the county level. I don't know enough about it yet to say much, but hope to learn as fast as possible.

Gal

It's in Georgia

The citizen's grand jury by the 'birthers' will have the same impact as the impeachment forums run by Dennis Kuchinich.

But for anyone interested here is the website

Barak Obama A.K.A. Barry Soetoro is illegal POTUS

You people are down right spooky. You going to start stock piling your weapons, grow all your own food, and build your compound?
Paranoid and coo-coo. That is how you are coming across.

Also:

"Well, regarding President Obama and guns, he did at one point say he was in favor of the reinstatement of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban (Beck, Hannity, and O'Reilly went nuts for a while about it), but since that died in committee, he has said he will not pursue it any further. Given how irrational that particular piece of legislation was, I can understand some concern (I even had some myself), but since it is dead, we're in the clear for now.

The rest of it seems to be just irrational fear."

Quote:

Originally Posted by cozyk

You people are down right spooky. You going to start stock piling your weapons, grow all your own food, and build your compound?
Paranoid and coo-coo. That is how you are coming across.

Just exactly who do you mean by "you people?"

NK, what does Bush making a joke have to do with anything and who the heck are you quoting?

And also, what did he mean by this?

Quote:

"It's not surprising they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

Who sounds "down right spooky" and "coo coo" there?

Quote:

Originally Posted by cozyk

You people are down right spooky. You going to start stock piling your weapons, grow all your own food, and build your compound?
Paranoid and coo-coo. That is how you are coming across.

I'm paranoid and coo-coo because I support the 2nd Amendment... just as the Founding Fathers did?

Supporting the Constitution is evidence of a mental disorder?

I guess in Obama-land where Obama-mania runs free, it is.

Where I come from, handing all your freedoms and personal responsibilities to the government in the name of "fairness" is off-the-wall crazy. But I guess in Obama-Land that is considered "normal".

Seems to me that the assylum is being run by the inmates... and you don't even recognize it.

One day we are going to wake up in the USSA (United Socialist States of Amerika) and you will wonder why food costs so much and there is so little of it, and why you can't see a doctor because the lines are too long, and why you can't afford to heat your home, and why so much of what you earn goes to the government, and why your car has only a 5-gallon gas tank but you still can't afford to fill it up, and why your car get's 300 miles to the gallon but you can't afford to travel 300 miles, and why you can't get a loan from the bank, and why your pharmacist has all the competence of your postman. You will wonder when the world changed so much and how you could ever have supported this stuff.

And it will be too late for me to say, "Told you so."

But I'm the one who's coo coo for supporting what it says in the Constitution and for having an understanding of its basis in history.

Elliot.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

NK, what does Bush making a joke have to do with anything

Bush isa president joking about wanting to be a dictator and this thread title talks about presidential dictatorship - you see no link there at all?

Quote:

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

and who the heck are you quoting?

A comment from another site that I found interesting. I don't like to plagiarize.

Quote:

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

And also, what did he mean by this?
Who sounds "down right spooky" and "coo coo" there?

Americans sound cooky with their crazy notion that they need to have personal weapons to assure their protection. They are the only industrialized nation on earth that believes this is a requirement.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Just exactly who do you mean by "you people?"

You people that are making these post. What is not clear about that? Which people did you think I was referring to?

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Bush isa president joking about wanting to be a dictator and this thread title talks about presidential dictatorship - you see no link there at all?

No, I see a tremendous difference between a president joking about being a dictator and one working toward that end.

Quote:

A comment from another site that I found interesting. I don't like to plagiarize.

You also apparently don't like to cite the source. The question was "who" were you quoting, your answer just told us the obvious... someone else. I knew that much already.