Ask Me Help Desk - My Straight Friend

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My Straight Friend

I'll start with a few details about me; I don't like most people, and the ones I do like usually bore me after 5 minutes or so.

I met a lesbian at 15, and we meshed perfectly, so 6 years later we entered into an open marriage.

Then I met him. He's my wife's co-worker, and she brought him home one night to hang out. We hit it off immediately; we think about things in the same way, but are so very different. We mostly focus on religion and spirituality, and the topic often moves on to love sex and passion. He definitely describes himself as straight.

We've know each for a few months now, and every weekend we get together to share a bottle of wine or two and talk for hours (12 hours of talking last Sunday).

One thing he mentioned in the middle is that he doesn't like people who are pushovers; he likes people to tell him what they want and what to do. Not demanding, just assertive. He finds it hot when someone can make the decisions. This happened right after I left a decision up to him. It was like he was guiding me on how to get him.

So, right before my wife gets home, he mentions how he doesn't find men sexually attractive but he gets it and can look at a man, especially one he loves, and think they're beautiful. He thinks honesty is attractive, and that he would prefer a guy to admit that they found him attractive. So I did, and he smiled shyly and thanked me.

He went on to say that while he wouldn't want a guy to suddenly lean over and start giving him oral, he loves to be touched and wouldn't mind having his scalp rubbed and hair played with.

My wife came home and turned on the TV, so the moment passed. He kept looking at me a lot, though.

What do I do? Should I go for it next time? And if so, how long do I wait to make my move? I'd think right away would be creepy, but I don't want to miss my chance.

When do I know it's safe to make the next move, and what should it be? With gay guys it is easy because they make moves to, but I imagine he will just leave it up to me.

Please note, I'm not try to get in his pants. All I want is to hold his hand, hold and cuddle him, massage his damaged back and sore feet, and maybe even sleep next to him. If he asked for sex, I'd give it to him without wanting reciprocation, but I don't want to push it in that direction.

I should also add that he is 19 and I am 25, if it matters.

My guess is it is what it is . NO she is not into you, they are into open marriage. If it weren't you it would simply be someone else willing 'to provide their service'

Quote:

Originally Posted by N0help4u

My guess is it is what it is . NO she is not into you, they are into open marriage. If it weren't you it would simply be someone else willing 'to provide their service'

This answer doesn't fit my question. I am male, the girl is my wife (and not really important to the story, any).

The question is: now that he has "given permission" to caress his hair, when should I do it, and when do I know it's okay to go further.

Quote:

One thing he mentioned in the middle is that he doesn't like people who are pushovers; he likes people to tell him what they want and what to do. Not demanding, just assertive. He finds it hot when someone can make the decisions. This happened right after I left a decision up to him. It was like he was guiding me on how to get him.

So, right before my wife gets home, he mentions how he doesn't find men sexually attractive but he gets it and can look at a man, especially one he loves, and think they're beautiful. He thinks honesty is attractive, and that he would prefer a guy to admit that they found him attractive. So I did, and he smiled shyly and thanked me.

He went on to say that while he wouldn't want a guy to suddenly lean over and start giving him oral, he loves to be touched and wouldn't mind having his scalp rubbed and hair played with.

Seems like a road map, but I wonder what your wife advised you to do?

Quote:

Originally Posted by talaniman

I wonder what your wife advised you to do?

She gave bad advice; switch from wine to liquor and drink until he asks for it.

Not my style. I like this guy, and would rather be friends until old age than have one night of sex.

He said what he likes. I'm not sure what is needed to 'make a move.' You can bring up the conversation and say you've been thinking about it, and would like to sit next to him and play with his hair. I'm a woman who used to have a man who brushed my hair. I sat on the floor; he sat on the couch. It was better than sex.

Actually it's physically awkward to sit next to someone and brush their hair or rub their scalp. Couch/floor is easier.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jbuch

She gave bad advice; switch from wine to liquor and drink until he asks for it.

Not my style. I like this guy, and would rather be friends until old age than have one night of sex.

Then why are you so worried about when to make a move if long term friendship is the goal? That's not honest, that's a game. You can be assertive, and honest and reach an understanding can't you? Then you will know what the motives is behind his what you perceive is a road map to how to get him.

Clarity and understanding comes through honest communications, NOT assumptions, presumptions, and high hopes. Friendships grow over time, so what's the hurry? How did your wife or you explain YOUR relationship/marraige?

I think you need to be open and honest with him. No playing games.

He may not be gay but it sounds like he may be submissive. If that is the case then it would be taking advantage of him to make moves without setting down boundary lines. It would also be unfair to you if he turns you into his latest Dom without giving you the choice especially since it sounds like you may have some submissive qualities too. Dominant/Submissive relationships are more about control and giving it up than pain, restraints, etc.

He may be giving 'permission', but he may also be forcing you to make the move so he can deny it happened or make you the 'bad' person. What do you really know about his past romances?

Consenting Adults must know and acknowledge what they are consenting to. Consent should be given without alcohol or hormones making the decision.

He must know your ideas, and he likes hair massage and the such, it sounds like he has an interest but perhaps is not sure, or just slow. Or he is hoping it will involve your wife also, and it is interested in that

HMM never thought of him wanting a threesome.

Well you only had like 2 sentences in your original post

Why don't you just be honest with him. He told you what he wanted and likes, why don't you do the same. I don't get why you're here asking when and what.

I think I gave too much information, causing my point to get hidden. I just wanted some suggestions on how to know it's the right time.

joypulv gave the best advice, and at this point I guess it's just my nerves getting in the way. This is my first friendship since I was in middle school that wasn't based on drugs, so I'm just very inexperienced, nervous, and self-conscious.

Thanks for y

Well if it's friendship you want stay away from the touching and head rubbing and just get to know each other through conversation. His being attractive should be immaterial if it's friendship you want. Try building on that.
If the guy is straight, I don't know why you're going there in the first place

Most here talk in terms of gay and straight. There really is a vast area in between, and it doesn't have to be called bi.
As one woman put it once, for her it's only about how she feels at the time about someone.

Gay straight or in between, his question is revolving around sexual contact, then he says he just wants friendship. Makes no sense to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homegirl 50

Gay straight or in between, his question is revolving around sexual contact, then he says he just wants friendship. Makes no sense to me.

Why does physical intimacy have to be included in sex? I just want to be close, and if he is interested then I'd like to go down that path. I'm just not sure where the line lies between walking it with him and pushing him down it.

You said you wanted to be friends with him. Is physical intimacy part of friendship with you? Do you have no friends where there is no physical intimacy?
I think that is your main objection with this guy. You are not a child. Tell him what you want and see where it goes, be honest. Stop this I just want to be friends crap.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homegirl 50

You said you wanted to be friends... Stop this I just want to be friends crap.

I have a few female friends from long ago. At one point or another, I've either shared a bed, gave a massage to, or cuddled with each of them. Are those not just close friendships?

If not, then what would you call it?

I don't want a partner, that's what my wife is for (finances, legal, etc).

I don't necessarily want him as a boyfriend; I'm sure he's not interested in being affectionate in public or going on romantic dates.

Why does it even need a special label? No two relationships are the same anyway.

I think I've got my answer, though. I need to just "man up" and go for it. Now I just have to find the courage.

Have have close friends, both male and female and cuddling has never been a part of any of them. Just be honest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jbuch

Why does physical intimacy have to be included in sex? I just want to be close, and if he is interested then I'd like to go down that path. I'm just not sure where the line lies between walking it with him and pushing him down it.

That is why I suggested communicating with him when both of you are sober and in control. Consenting Adults applies to friendships as well as sexual partners.

I don't want to be judgmental but the idea that your lesbian wife suggest you get this straight young man (granted he is 19, but he is still young) drunk and make out and you your wanting to have a "friend" you can make out with but don't know how to go about it, is just funky. You guys are just messing around with this person. Maybe he is curious and thinks the whole thing is cool and maybe the wife can join in. He is a coworker of your wife's, that in an of itself could get messy if this thing doesn't work. At least be honest about what you are doing.

I have been thinking about this and have one more thing I want to say. He is 19 and you are giving him alcohol. Do you live in a place where it is legal for people under 21 to drink? If not, you may want to consider the consequences of providing alcohol to an underage person.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homegirl 50

the idea that your lesbian wife suggest you get this straight young man ... drunk and make out ... is just funky.

She is quite crass, and offensive at times. I'd like to point out that I did state that her advice was bad, and that taking advantage of someone is not my style.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homegirl 50

You guys are just messing around with this person.

In no way am I "just messing around" with him. I take our relationship very seriously, and would never allow anything to happen of which he did not approve.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homegirl 50

At least be honest about what you are doing.

He had commented on how he values honesty and would want to know if someone was attracted to him. I told him that I found him beautiful and that all I want is to have a physical connection with him, to the extent that he is comfortable.

I don't think I can get any more honest than that.

I'm not trying to be rude, but I think you spent so much time reading between the lines that you missed what I actually said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cat1864

He is 19 and you are giving him alcohol. ...you may want to consider the consequences of providing alcohol to an underage person.

I do give him alcohol. We share a bottle of wine together, spanned over many hours. Once he has a sip, he is no longer allowed to drive and must stay the night.

I thought about it a lot, and decided that the risk of being caught giving him alcohol was outweighed by the facts that he is no longer drinking heavily and has quit drugs.

He used to drink with all his college buddies, and has even had alcohol poisoning from beer bong games. He was doing Molly (ecstasy) every day and selling it carelessly.

But now, he finds it more interesting to be "sophisticated" and drink wine and have deep conversations. I think that's an amazing improvement and I'll gladly assume the consequences if it means I can keep him safe.

Oh come on, we all know you want a long term friends with benefits. That's what YOU have been saying all along. All this dancing around is nothing but your inability to be honest about it with him.

You don't want to seduce him with alcohol, and are looking for another way. But seducing him is what you want. That going to be hard for a snob with limited social skills and needs his wife to bring home potential candidates.

You may as well take a few shots yourself to end this circle jerk by loosening your own lips.

I think what might be confusing (at least to me), is that you call your house mate your 'wife'. Now that you've made that clear, I have to agree with some points.

I don't think sexual orientation has anything to do with anything in your post.

I do, however, think that messing around for a lack of a better term, is not a good idea with your 'wife's' co-worker.

If you are interested in him, and he sounds like he is interested in you, why do you think he insists that he's straight.

In all the years you have been with your wife, have you never had a gay partner or even date with another gay man?

I'm wondering if the problem isn't so much him, (the one your are interested in), or a lack of confidence in how to figure out just where the relationship is going with him.

Why confine yourself and him, to just where you live. Why not go out, together, and share some times that are just fun. At this point he is a friend, and straight or not, friends spend a lot of time together, and not just talking, but going out for dinner, or to a movie.

I'm saying be comfortable with him, and him you, with first being friends. The sparks you feel now, and him too probably, will maybe grow into something more. If there is to be a relationship, no decisions on that, or how to go about that are necessary right now.

If the friendship comes first with a little more substance, you will know soon enough, how to proceed naturally.

Quote:

Originally Posted by talaniman

Oh come on, we all know you want a long term friends with benefits. That's what YOU have been saying all along. All this dancing around is nothing but your inability to be honest about it with him.

I believe I already said that I told him I wanted to be physically close to him, as far as he was comfortable going. You're the second person to say I'm not being honest... Maybe you're thinking of a different word?

Quote:

Originally Posted by talaniman

But seducing him is what you want.

That's the last thing I want. Seduction would be leading him to something he didn't already want. He already said that he likes to be touched and have his hair played with, so there's no 'seduction' involved.

Quote:

Originally Posted by talaniman

That going to be hard for a snob with limited social skills and needs his wife to bring home potential candidates.

Nice job on the personal attack.

It seems that the root of all this back and forth is the fact that you can't seem to separate the act of physical intimacy from that of sex. They are two separate things that do not have to go hand in hand.

Ever wonder why when your girlfriend asks for a massage, she gets upset when you try to take it further? If my man cared more about getting off than holding me tight, I'm pretty sure I'd have a lot of headaches, too.

Your giving this young man wine and thinking it's OK is despicable, this sounds like a kid who been through a lot of stuff in his life and is probably open to just about anything.
Messing with your wife's co-worker is funky as well. Is this the first guy she has brought home to you?
Do you only entertain this kid in your home? Do you ever go out to eat? This whole thing is just messy.

You are right, I got dumped a bunch, but never stopped dating many and having a bunch of social options and opportunities.

You can dress it up any way you please and justify anything you want, but by what you have written you are a social snob trying to slowly seduce a teen ager your wife brought home for you. One with issues at that.

Your behavior is one of a predator grooming a young guy for your own selfish motives. That's the honesty I refer to, and find your tactics with a guy trying to overcome his own failings with drugs and alcohol deplorable since all you offer is a thin veneer of friendship and avoidance of the real problems he faces.

I strongly object to your seduction of this youngster as an easier softer way for him to avoid his problems and issues while you gain his confidence and are ready to pounce if he lets you. You are to lazy to seek out equals because they bore you.

How did I come to this admittedly harsh conclusion? Reading what you wrote in response to the healthy suggestions others have provided.

Oops! You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to talaniman again
That's the way this sounds to me as well. I think it awful what you are doing to this kid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake2008

I think what might be confusing (at least to me), is that you call your house mate your 'wife'.

Just to be clear, she is my wife. We are legally married, and love each other very much. We chose to get married and build a life together because of the love and trust that we share. Sex doesn't have to be part of a marriage, as long as both people agree to the terms.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake2008

I don't think sexual orientation has anything to do with anything in your post.

It does to the extent that those who grow up in conservative, hetero-normal environments are often uncomfortable with things like hugging, etc, so I wish to be careful to not leave his comfort zone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake2008

I do, however, think that messing around for a lack of a better term, is not a good idea with your 'wife's' co-worker.

She and I discussed this, and she determined that since they do not work side by side, and do not even have to see each other, that it shouldn't be a problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake2008

If you are interested in him, and he sounds like he is interested in you, why do you think he insists that he's straight.

He hasn't ever "insisted" that he is straight. The most he has ever said is that he wouldn't be comfortable with "a guy just suddenly going down on [him]". He may be straight, he may not, but since sex isn't the goal it shouldn't matter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake2008

In all the years you have been with your wife, have you never had a gay partner or even date with another gay man?

Of course, I've had other partners/boyfriends. Now, I'll admit that I often question the richness of those relationships, since they were all experienced while under the influence of drugs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake2008

Why confine yourself and him, to just where you live. Why not go out, together, and share some times that are just fun. ...dinner, or to a movie.

We definitely do! Our chats are always after he gets off work late on Sundays. He stays the night, and then we go get breakfast and do something together. We'll go to the gun range one week, then go to the spa the next. We even have a mini-vacation planned for his birthday.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake2008

The sparks you feel now, and him too probably, will maybe grow into something more. If there is to be a relationship, no decisions on that, or how to go about that are necessary right now.

That's my point; he has clearly stated that he likes people who are forward and assertive, and that he would enjoy someone caressing his hair. To me, it seems like an arrow pointing down the path he wants us to take. I just don't know how to go about getting there. I've always been very submissive, and I'm afraid that my first attempt at being assertive will cross the line into being pushy or aggressive.

I don't want anything that he doesn't want; to do so would cause everything to fall apart. However, I do not want to wait so long that I give him the impression that I'm not interested and he moves on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homegirl 50

Your giving this young man wine and thinking it's OK is dispicable

I find it much more contemptible that someone would hold a law above common sense.

Once, soon after we met, I asked him over for dinner. His reply was that he had a rough day and just wanted to get "messed up" and was going to go out with friends. Now, I don't like these friends; they are thugs and heavy drug pushers and are going to get him in some serious trouble. I decided to say "it won't get you messed up, but we always have wine with our meal and there's no reason we can finish the bottle once we eat". And, that was it. He had so much fun, he wanted to do it again. Now he touts that he hates beer and doesn't like "getting stupid". I've got him saying "Beer is the nectar of the nitwit".

, this sounds like a kid who been through a lot of stuff in his life and is probably open to just about anything.
Messing with your wife's co-worker is funky as well. Is this the first guy she has brought home to you?
Do you only entertain this kid in your home? Do you ever go out to eat? This whole thing is just messy.[/QUOTE]

He even stopped doing hard drugs because he has more fun here where it is quiet. I think a little wine has gone a long way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by talaniman

...you are a social snob trying to slowly seduce a teen ager your wife brought home for you.

Your behavior is one of a predator grooming a young guy for your own selfish motives.

I, in no way, instigated this.

A guy was brought home by my wife. I generally dislike her male friends, but ended up having an amazing time with this one. We talked and hung out a bit, and became good friends. I developed feelings for him, but had no intention of acting on them. Hell, I felt bad when I grabbed his hand out of reflex during a scary movie, and even apologised.

HE is the one who, immediately after I put on a display of submissiveness, said he prefers assertive people. HE is the one that brought up the fact that he can see some guys as being attractive, and HE is the one that said he enjoys having his hair touched, even by a guy.

HE is the one putting out obvious signals.

How am I the predator?

He is a 19 year old (basically kid) who has been into alcohol, drugs and who knows what else that your wife brought home. And how you think it's OK to give him wine (the drinking age is 21 no matter what you think) I don't know. You seem to be a very inappropriate person, (grabbing this guys hands you just met) maybe this is due to a lack in social skills.
You can excuse this any way you like but I still think what you are doing is just plain funky. You are looking for ways to seduce this kid. He's had enough mess in his like he does not need to get into some kind of twisted relationship with you. And no, I am not homophobic, that is not the problem with this. First you say you just want a friend, then you want a cuddle buddy and maybe later something more. Yet you say you have only had drug induced relationships. This is messed up.

I, in no way, instigated this.

No but you happily go along with the program of grooming a young troubled at risk teen.

A guy was brought home by my wife. I generally dislike her male friends, but ended up having an amazing time with this one. We talked and hung out a bit, and became good friends. I developed feelings for him, but had no intention of acting on them. Hell, I felt bad when I grabbed his hand out of reflex during a scary movie, and even apologised.

Classic grooming

HE is the one who, immediately after I put on a display of submissiveness, said he prefers assertive people. HE is the one that brought up the fact that he can see some guys as being attractive, and HE is the one that said he enjoys having his hair touched, even by a guy.

Yeah sure blame him for what you are doing, None of this is your fault, yet you take advantage of this whole situation. That's classic predator, or at best willfull grooming. Either way, despicable.

HE is the one putting out obvious signals.

Naw, that's what you want to think, and your dishonesty is your refusal to ask him what he means. It's you who assume because what you rather think is he is into you and what you want from him.

How am I the predator?

All of the above and being the older adult know exactly what you are doing. Stop playing dumb, and making us think you are so innocent and above board. YOU are NOT!! Again, a lack of honesty. You are but a softer gentle version of his thug friends you say you loathe, but I think it's more a jealousy over sharing what you think should be yours.

I disagree with two points that have been made:

1) If 19, almost two years after the minor/adult line, is basically a child, how will an additional 2 years make alcohol safe? Should you give alcohol to someone under age? In most cases, I would say no. But, in the end, what matters is that he's no longer causing trouble for himself and others, has stopped poisoning himself with drugs, and would be drinking alcohol anyway.

2) Physical Intimacy and sex are NOT the same thing. When my sister got a divorce, I cuddled with her. I cuddle with my dog daily. I am not incestual, nor am I a zoophile

However, since more than one person has seen a problem with the details I have given, then it's totally possible that he may see it that way too, and the last thing I want is to upset him.

I've been so focused on his comment that he wants people who are assertive, and that scares the hell out of me. I shouldn't just be looking at it as meaning bold actions, but also words.

I've invited him out to dinner tonight so I can discuss everything with him. I will lay it all out, without mentioning that I perceived signals from him. I'll let him think about it, and offer end the night by parting ways at the restaurant.

I need to be honest here...

This is a 19 year old kid. YES, kid. Please do not corrupt this person with your bad behavior.

Allowing a minor to drink IS bad behavior.

Just do him a favor and leave him alone. Perhaps you should focus more on your wife and less on a child.

It is good that he has been influenced to stop using drugs. Sad to say, but I don't think it is all that uncommon for a 19 year old to drink. As a counselor, I worked with 14-17 year old males, and the choice to stop drugs and alcohol, is their own. What I'm trying to say is, this 19 year old holds down a job, and has cleaned up. I think you can take some credit for that. His life is going in a good direction.

The legal drinking age here in Canada is either 18 or 19, depending on the Province, and has been for a long time. It was a big hullabaloo when it was changed, but, like gay marriage which is legal in Canada, and has been for 10 years now, it was eventually realized that the country wasn't going to go up in flames and end up in eternal damnation for all of time.

My advice to you is to take things slow. Keep from allowing yourself to presume a certain level of maturity in a 19 year old. As much has he has accomplished, he has a long way to go in learning about life.

While he says he prefers assertiveness in people, and you are not assertive, and afraid of losing this friendship because of it, that may very well happen anyway. That too, is the nature of the 19 year old. They don't know what they want, although they may sound very mature.

I didn't realize you were legally married, and again, that is an example of our changing perceptions and attitudes about what marriage is. Change and acceptance takes time for most people.

You haven't indicated that you are a predator, in my opinion. Nor do I think you are grooming this young man. That you are struggling so much with this relationship, and haven't had this kind of friendship before, doesn't make you a criminal.

Think about all that has been said, and let the relationship go where it is going to go, naturally. I don't know what else you can do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jbuch

I disagree with two points that have been made:

1) If 19, almost two years after the minor/adult line, is basically a child, how will an additional 2 years make alcohol safe? Should you give alcohol to someone under age? In most cases, I would say no. But, in the end, what matters is that he's no longer causing trouble for himself and others, has stopped poisoning himself with drugs, and would be drinking alcohol anyway.

2) Physical Intimacy and sex are NOT the same thing. When my sister got a divorce, I cuddled with her. I cuddle with my dog daily. I am not incestual, nor am I a zoophile

1. I don't know where you are but the drinking age is 21 where I live. You have no right to decide that it's OK to give him wine.

2. When you hug your sister and your dog, you are not doing it wth the desire for something more to happen in the future.
I still think what you are up to with this young man is creepy.

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