Want to solve the so called illegal Hispanic immigration problem? Crack down on those who are gladly breaking their own country's law by doing the hiring. As long as there are AMERICANS who value profit more than they value their own country's laws and continue to illegally hire people they aren't supposed to because it's illegal to do so, the situation will continue.

By the way, those doing the illegal hiring aren't threatened with starvation if they obey our cherished country's laws by not hiring illegally. They simply won't make as much of a profit as they are doing by illegal hiring. But since they are unwilling to make less while they can make much more by simply ignoring their beloved country's laws and hiring illegally they will continue to hire illegally confident that the full blame for the situation will be placed conveniently on the backs of those being illegally hired.

BTW
Weird! You don't see the self-appointed anti-immigration crusader Dobbs becoming irate against these who have a duty as Americans to abide by the country's laws but who shamelessly prefer to do business illegally for a profit.

Shutting the borders down would be nice too but bush won't do that for some reason. Even after 9.11

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gazelleintense

shutting the borders down would be nice too but bush won't do that for some reason. even after 9.11

---

Do you think that they would be trying to get across if the American employers weren't willing able and ready to illegally hire them? Why do you seem reluctant to hold them accountable?

This is not a "party" issue and Bush can do little about it, if congress does not want to. The simple fact is that both parties don't want to stop it, They want the illegals votes for their party, so either party taking a side on this against them would hurt them in the elections, and with the two parites split fairly well down the middle, taking a side against would fairly well doom them in the next election.

The question is why so much ire and outright hatred toward those who come here to work because they do so illegally while we smile complacently at the supposedly fine upright citizens who illegally hire them. I see those hiring them more criminal than those being hired since they aren't really under any duress to do so but do so simply because they are materialistic hogs.

As for the perpetually complaining Dobbs, can't stomach how our government is running the USA then maybe he should seriously consider getting on a boat and going back to Ireland.

BTW

I consider indiscriminately firing rubber bullets at point blank range into a crowd which includes both children and infants criminal behavior. An activity in which even African American police officers, whom one would expect to know better in view of their history, were enthusiastically participating just recently in California.

Hiring illegals is already against the law. We have to enforce the law. Why aren't employers being held accountable?
This is a huge country and there is no way to "shut the border" That would be like trying to stop the incoming tide. Part of the problem is the illegals don't pay their way and don't try to adjust to their new host country. They'll bleed the system as users until the whole beautiful thing they came here for collapses on our fool heads. If you feel the same as I, you're going to love this link:
Pledge Of Allegiance To The Flag Of The United States Of America
Copy and paste this and turn up you speakers...

Hello Star:

You don't quite understand things. It's obvious you've never been in business for yourself.

What's a small business owner to do when the help has all the necessary documents? Should he take the documents to a lab? Should he question the help BETTER? Should he have a policy of no brown skinned people?

Or, should he just put them to work?

Immigration (or illegal immigration) should be taken care of at the border, not at the workplace.

excon

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CaptainRich

Part of the problem is the illegal's don't pay there way and don't try to adjust to their new host country.

---

Hello again:

Yes, I have more to say.

Actually, illegals pay plenty. Federal income tax is withheld from their paychecks. But, being illegal, they can't file for a refund like you can. Even though they may not owe tax, unlike you, they pay it anyway. Plus, they pay social security taxes, but they'll never collect social security. They pay unemployment taxes, but they'll never collect unemployment. No Siree, they pay plenty.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CaptainRich

They'll bleed the system as users until the whole beautiful thing they came here for collapses

---

I don't think there's a “they”. I just think there's a guy blowing leafs across the street, or washing dishes at my local restaurant. They earn their money and send what they can to feed their families. Isn't that what you do? What's bleeding about that? Because they send their money out of the country? When you buy a Toyota, you're sending your money out of the country.

I think all of you, for the most part, have been listening to entirely too much talk radio.

excon

While I am very pro legal, again there is not a they, you can't tell legal from illegal by just looking at them. And which of us would not do what ever it took to feed our families and get ahead. The businsess person who fudges on his resume about his jobs or education, or perhaps does not list a job he was fired from, all fraud in some way to get that better job for his family.

But checking the ID is a real problem, in the US there is no national ID card, no way sure fire way to know peoplel are who they say they are.
As a police officer we got a new book every year, just on drivers license, each state has a drivers license and a official state ID card, do you know what the state two state over looks like ? In some states there is a older card and a newer card. With that then there are birth certificates, quess how many types there are over the last 50 years. And of course there are other Id's allowed on the I9 form to check idenity.
One report I read said there were over 1000 various types of approved ID's looking at all of the states varoius types.

And to be honest many are good ( and a lot are not) and as a officer often we could not tell they were fake till we tried to run their numbers though our data base. Which of course those employing these people don't have access to.

And we will pick on the leaf blower or the lawn mower, if you hire a contractor to do work at your property, you don't check citizenship, actually I don't even think you are allowed to.

And the employer can be sued by the person they are trying to hire if they ask the wrong questions about citizenship

But the only way to ever stop it, is to secure the borders, as long as the US government is not taking this serouis, it will continue

I spoke with a friend that works in the banking industry about this very issue. He said that the transferring of funds to Mexico is a huge business; billions every year. This makes it difficult for politicians to make a decision about securing the borders because there are so many people benefiting from the open borders. I do agree though, that you have to fix the problem at the border.
You can kill cockroaches all day in your home, but until you find the source and stop them there, they will just keep coming. This sounds bad, but please don't interpret this as a comparison between illegal immigrants and cockroaches. Just an example.
I am very pro immigration. I don't care where they immigrate from. Immigration is the very foundation of our country. The problem I have with illegal immigration is that by not properly enforcing it, we are rewarding bad or illegal behavior. By definition, reinforcing a particular behavior makes it more likely that the behavior or a similar one will occur again.

Hello again,

Indeed, I have more.

Let me ask you a question. Let's say you live in Indiana. Jobs are scarce in Indiana. In fact there are NO jobs in Indiana. You are forced to collect cans to feed your family.

In Illinois, however, there are jobs. But, Illinois want to protect its workers, so they made it illegal for anyone to come into their state.

You walk up to the border. You look across and see a help wanted sign over there. Your children are hungry. What?? You're going to sit there??

excon

I don't listen to talk radio, at all. But I do live in Florida. And if you don't blink, you'll see migrant workers every day! A lot of local companies that market my fruit , vegetable and flowers hire and pay casual labor and pay them under the table. Don't have any qualification to talk about the construction aspect. And nobody pays their taxes on the roadside. And if you want to talk about how they play by the rules: a couple of years ago, I was rear-ended by a Mexican national (I never saw any papers but he couln't speak a word of English) with an international driver's license (he's supposed to know the rules). The car he was driving was un-insured ( did I mention I live in Florida, where if I didn't have insurance my plates would be taken, my license would be suspended and I'd be fined ), the plates didn't match tha car, the tires on his car were bald, and if he hadn't hit me, he'd have hit the stopped schoolbus I was sitting still behind. It cost me nearly fifteen hundred bucks three weeks before Christmas!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CaptainRich

Hiring illegals is already against the law. We have to enforce the law. Why aren't employers being held accountable?!
This is a huge country and there is no way to "shut the border" That would be like trying to stop the incoming tide. Part of the problem is the illegals don't pay their way and don't try to adjust to their new host country. They'll bleed the system as users until the whole beautiful thing they came here for collapses on our fool heads. If you feel the same as I, you're gonna love this link:
Pledge Of Allegiance To The Flag Of The United States Of America
copy and paste this and turn up you speakers...

---

America isn't known as a country that just sits on its hands and takes it on the chin. If the danger to the nation's economy and social stability were serious as you describe the situation would have long ago been pronounced a national emergency and a forceful and decisive reaction would have immediately been taken. Example?

Look at what we did to the Japanese Americans when we considered them a serious threat. Put them all in concentration camps. Something for which our government has apologized in full contradiction to Dobbs' statement that our country has never done anything for which it needs to apologize. Of course if we take everything Dobbs
Says as true we'd have to believe that our country is being run by a group of imbeciles
Making mindless decisions. But anyone with a basic knowledge on how the executive and legislative branches of our government work knows that his idea mindless decision-making just doesn't mesh with the reality. The president, for example is advised by economists and he masks his decisions only after carefully weighing the pros and cons. So his decisions are far from being mindless
Regardless of what Dobbs says.


In view of this, the government's reluctance to come down hard on American employers who are breaking the law by criminally hiring illegally seems to indicate that the cost/benefits of the past and present immigration from Mexico aren't as devastatingly dangerous to warrant immediate crackdown on the illegal hiring employers. Otherwise the government would have done so long ago in order to protect our cherished way of life from being devastated by the materialistic illegal hiring practices of its supposedly law-abiding citizens.

Hello Stardude:

What am I - chopped liver?? Who are you talking to? I'm standing right here telling you that you're all wet, and you pretend that I'm not here.

Whokee dokee.

excon

PS> You do know that other people can read this...

Yes, Starman, this country doesn't sit on her hand or bark at her own feet, for that matter. But it has to have been a long process for my FEDERAL credit UNION to ask me at the ATM if I can speak ENGLISH!!
Did I offend anyone?

excon said: "Your personal experiences aren't a national issue." He's right to say mine aren't, individually, but as a nation, the we comes out when we speak about it. Does excon suggest the impact from the numerous issues we've discussed is acceptable? Collectively? What is your measuring stick?

Hello again, Captain:

Immigration at the border is broken. I don't think we disagree there. That's why we have people pouring over. It doesn't work. It needs to be fixed. Right now we can't tell a dish washer from a suicide bomber. That's not good for us.

The problem is a poor Mexican has to pay thousands and wait around 5 years to legally cross the border. It might as well be millions and 20 years. In the real world, it's not going to happen. However, if we made it cost maybe $100, and shortened the wait to, say 30 days, I think immigration will be fixed. With legal workers coming through the legal ports of entry, we can assume that the people illegally crossing our border ARE real bad guys. That IS good for us.

I don't think Mexicans want to break the law for the sake of breaking it. They just want to feed their family. My whole point in this discussion is to point the finger where it belongs – at the government! Congress didn't do anything for 20 years. The broken system we have is the result. The system is the bad guy. The illegal's are not. In fact, a case could be made for them being victims too.

Indeed, I think I made that case.

excon

However they are coming here and that fact is they are breaking laws. If they can't get a job, they steal or sell drugs, drive without a license, no insurance, etc. If there are no repercussions then what do they have to lose. The US is way to lenient. We just send them back so they come back here and do it all over again. The social system is breaking us. It is the depleting of the middle class to take care of the poor and uneducated.

This country needs to come down on employers who are hiring illegals. What the heck? If I lie on my job application, I get fired. Why aren't employers following the law?

Tony Blair, when asked why he believes in America so much, said, "A simple way to take measure of a country is to look at ... how many want in ... and how many want to get out."

I am flattered that America is a place where so many people want to move to. This may be the problem. Like any 'product,' when in low demand, the price goes down; when in high demand, the price goes up. Looking at the United States like a 'product' wanted for consumption, American values, freedoms and culture are in high demand right now (and apparently Mexico is in low demand).

Think of it!! People are breaking laws trying to get into our country!! How many other countries can you say that about? We are who we are because of immigration. People assume that because we want to close the borders to illegal immigrants that we are anti-Mexican. This isn't the case. I want to close the borders to illegal immigration so that breaking the law isn't the first thing they do when crossing the border.
I would rather hand them a welcome kit, an American flag to hang in their window, and say "good luck with however you decide to contribute to our great country."
Let's close our borders to illegal immigration, and relax our current immigration policies. When a product is in high demand, to become more profitable, you have to make more 'product' (citizenship) available. I think if we make it easier and more profitable to succeed here, people will be less likely to turn to alternative ways of earning money.

You are all right.
-close the borders to illegal immigration
-hold employers accountable
-reward those that enter the country legally
-pressure the govt. for reform

Inscription on the Statue of Liberty:

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me.
I lift my lamp beside the golden door."

You know it is easy to talk about "them" but when you take it to a single family. Lets say the guy who mows yards, he also washes dishes in the morning, and washes cars on the weekend, he works hard and lives with two families in a run down trailer that some landlord charges triple rent on. He works the three job, one on a paycheck using a fake social security, so he does not get to file any 1040 and never gets that refund in April like the rest of us do.

He still has a sister and mom and dad in mexio who he sends 1/2 of his money to, to try and help pay for the man who helped his family get here and to help his sick mom. There kids are tired because they also help.
They get robbed every now and then but can't call the police because they are illegal and scared they will get arrested.

We all want them to be law obeying citizens and we all want the border to be closed, but when you sit across from them in church, when you teach their kids in Sunday school , they are only wanting to do what is good for their family and they know that although it is "illegal" it is not inforced and that they will not get into any real trouble except for being sent back.

It is easy to hate "them" but hard to be against George or Pete that tells you a joke at the 7-11 or mows your yard on saturdays or perhaps eats with you at the church pot luck.

Can you pack up someone you know and like because they are doing what they can to give their family the same dream you and I have.

I am not saying it is right, I am not saying we should not shut the border, but when you start puttng faces on those people, they are not horrible killers they are normally family people who love their kids, wives and want to do what is right.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by excon

...a case could be made for them being victims too.


excon

---

Slow the bus down! How are they "victims?"

Hello again, Captain:

Go read just the first two paragraphs of what Fr. Chuck says. I believe him. Looks like they're victims to me.

excon

I'll start with this disclaimer. I respect anyone that is willing to bust their butt to better themselves and/or give their family a decent living.

I don't like seeing our country overrun by illegal immigrants. I believe the answer lies in better border control and a lot more enforcement of the employers hiring them. Like a previous poster mentioned, many of these people are paid on a daily basis - in cash. The state isn't receiving any withholding, the worker isn't entitled to any worker's compensation or unemployment benefits. They are working without a safety net.

I would like to see a viable worker program. I doubt however, that many of the employers using illegals will go for it, though. If they become legal, then they will have to pay FICA, State witholding & medicare taxes. They'll need a bookkeeper to keep it straight, higher bank fees to process the payroll checks. So much easier and cheaper to keep a roll of 20s in your pocket and pay at the end of the day.

excon & Fr_Chuck: Just because someone uses the word "them" or "they" doesn't mean it's derogatory or that we lack compassion.

excon: Lou Dobbs? Are you for real? Do you honestly think that I'm brainwashed by the media --because I can see what's going on right here in front of my eyes.

There are no easy answers to this but our country is going to eventually break. We can't constantly give and give and not receive anything back. They are plenty of people that have come here legally and make contributions to this country.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AW805

excon & Fr_Chuck: We can't constantly give and give and not receive anything back. They are plenty of people that have come here legally and make contributions to this country.

---

Receive NOTHING back?

Excerpt:

The fact is that the benefits of illegal immigration — larger labor pool, lower inflation, higher levels of productivity — are felt at the national level and so dispersed as to be generally imperceptible.

By Ambassador Jeffrey Davidow
Immigration, the United States and Mexico

Here are some contributions:

HISPANIC CONTRIBUTIONS - Home

Hispanics in the American Revolution, War of Independence

Hispanics in the US Military

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starman

Want to solve the so called illegal Hispanic immigration problem? Crack down on those who are gladly breaking their own country's law by doing the hiring. As long as there are AMERICANS who value profit more than they value their own country's laws and continue to illegally hire people they aren't supposed to because it's illegal to do so, the situation will continue.

By the way, those doing the illegal hiring aren't threatened with starvation if they obey our cherished country's laws by not hiring illegally. They simply won't make as much of a profit as they are doing by illegal hiring. But since they are unwilling to make less while they can make much more by simply ignoring their beloved country's laws and hiring illegally they will continue to hire illegally confident that the full blame for the situation will be placed conveniently on the backs of those being illegally hired.

BTW
Weird! You don't see the self-appointed anti-immigration crusader Dobbs becoming irate against these who have a duty as Americans to abide by the country's laws but who shamelessly prefer to do business illegally for a profit.

---

Some in the media are absolutely incorrect when they claim illegals are not giving to the system. Some posts simply reflect the fact that the average American does not have a basic understanding of economics.

If a business spends millions in labor each year and sets some aside for profit and some aside to lower its prices, you, the middle class pontificator, are getting your lifestlye subsidized by below market labor. Also, if a business saves millions in labor costs and keeps it as profit, they are paying taxes at a CORPORATE tax rate, which is way higher than a poor person's indiviual tax rate. Your bottom line is that everything you buy is cheaper because of immigrants being all around the supply chain and your taxes are lower.

The uneducated in this country buy into fear mongering about immigrants. The US government collects a lot more tax revenue by taxing the corporations savings on labor than the immigrant's labor taxes would have been. So now you get to shop at Wal-Mart a little cheaper, and your income taxes are lower.

Before you post about what you see on TV, read a book or two on the topic and educate yourself. The real agenda of Bill Oreilly and the other people you watch on Fox News is racism, because the economic arguments are pro immigrant. Sounds like you get a lot of info from TV...

As far as Bank of America is concerned, try paying Western Union a devastating percentage of your income to give it to a family that would starve otherwise. Bank of America's credit products are humanitarian and progressive. Immigrants are not the only audience for accessible credit products. What they are doing is nothing short of buying in to cutting edge economics research that shows micro credit can have a profund impact on the US underclass. BOA should lauded for their humanitarian efforts, which existed long before these new credit products.

So, smart guys, do we deny the underpriveledged citizens of this country credit because you have a beef with Mexicans? When you buy the lettuce at the grocery store, it is picked by an immigrant who has already had his taxes taken out under an assumed social security number. Now he has to sell his soul to Western Union to feed his family while you are feeding your face with lettuce you got from the bargain bin. Now that you your mouth is full of lettuce, you start babbling on and on about the leeches from Mexico. Stop watching TV and start doing a little reading.

When you are done kicking all the Mexicans out, who are you going to kick out next? Will it be the Chinese or people from India. Are you going to start claiming that they should not have slots open for them at universtities because all the midddle class in the US can't compete on their own terms? Do you feel robbed because your job working as a bus boy was taken by a Mexican? When you are done throwing them out of the country, will you put on the apron and start collecting dishes from dirty tables, or are you just a middle class consumer of the fear mongering people use to get elected to office?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gogosean

Some in the media are absolutely incorrect when they claim illegals are not giving to the system. Some posts simply reflect the fact that the average American does not have a basic understanding of economics.

If a business spends millions in labor each year and sets some aside for profit and some aside to lower its prices, you, the middle class pontificator, are getting your lifestlye subsidized by below market labor. Also, if a business saves millions in labor costs and keeps it as profit, they are paying taxes at a CORPORATE tax rate, which is way higher than a poor person's indiviual tax rate. Your bottom line is that everything you buy is cheaper because of immigrants being all around the supply chain and your taxes are lower.

The uneducated in this country buy into fear mongering about immigrants. The US government collects a lot more tax revenue by taxing the corporations savings on labor than the immigrant's labor taxes would have been. So now you get to shop at Wal-Mart a little cheaper, and your income taxes are lower....

---

My post was not intended as an attack against the immigrants. It was intended as a reminder that those doing the hiring and those allowing them to hire are cooperating.
So why all the anger against the immigrants who are merely going with the policy flow? [no pun intended] That was what I was trying to say.

Hispanic Business Forums - open letter to racist against hispanics

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starman

Receive NOTHING back?

Excerpt:

The fact is that the benefits of illegal immigration — larger labor pool, lower inflation, higher levels of productivity — are felt at the national level and so dispersed as to be generally imperceptible.

By Ambassador Jeffrey Davidow
Immigration, the United States and Mexico

Here are some contributions:

HISPANIC CONTRIBUTIONS - Home

Hispanics in the American Revolution, War of Independence

Hispanics in the US Military

---

REMEMBER THE ALAMO
I have no problem with Hispanics. Those who want to become citizens and contribute are very welcome. I visited some of the links you mentioned and though I didn't see any proof that any of the men I read about, mostly Medal of Honor recipients, were probably English speaking, and had either already obtained citizenship or were about to.
The big white elephant in the middle of the room is : are the ones who sneak over the border, through fences and over walls (that should have been a message), assault armed border patrol officers, are they the ones "fitting in?" Are they wanting to contribute? What about other nationalities (read: terrorists) coming here the same way? Do you not think something needs to be done to stop that?

Gee okay, I'll try to take off my dunce hat to write this seeing how I'm uneducated and need to read a book. As far as Lou Dobbs & O'Reilly, don't flatter yourself, don't watch either one of them.

As far as Mexican being "leeches" -- I don't think anyone called them that. Love the twist in words.

I've been to Mexico many many times, have actually lived pretty close to the border. My family has supported Mexican orphanges and give to a multitude of charities. It's a devastating situation when families are living in carboard boxes, children are begging in the streets caked in dirt, moms selling bits of gum for 25 cents a piece, dogs strewn all over the streets dead from starvation, tainted water, corrupt government, shall I go on?
Truth be known, I'd probably high tale it the US too if I had to live like that.

What about us people smacking on our low cost lettuce? I didn't chose the people to pick it. Farmers did. Farmers and employers like them are the enablers. I think it's a crime to pay illegals the wages that they do -- expect them to live in squaller, leaving them with no choice but to provide fraudulent documents. Because of that, now, the US provides food stamps, Headstart programs, welfare, medical care. Is that what you support? I don't. I couldn't stand in a field all day picking food and getting paid crap. Sounds like your attitude is "someone's doing it, they need the money anyway and it's good for our economy". That's a bunch of bull. Stop the illegal hiring. Stop taking advantage of illegals. Come down on the corrupt Mexican government and make them accountable for their citizens. Help our neighbors stand on their feet and be proud of their country again.

Gogosean: Yep. I have access to a small farmers market. Guess who picked it? Nope... not the farmer. Also, not all cities or states have farmers markets.
But I hardly think buying a head a lettuce at the farmers market is going save us. I know, I know, you're going to say it's a start and we've got to start somewhere. You want to resolve this from the bottom up... when we need to start at the top.

AW805 suggests starting at the top. Where is the top? We used to have money in the bank before GW's tax cuts and false pretenses of national security had to be financed. The US government really isn't even trying to fix this. Look at how the feds handled Katrina. I think it is very kind of you to still have faith in those at the TOP, but where are they? They are doing photo ops in safe zones in the middle east while many of our loved ones are asking where the hell their body armour is. Maybe it got stuck in an immigrant's sewing machine. Maybe the overseas sweatshops are falling behind filling all the jobs that have moved overseas. What happened to the jobs that count? They didn't go to immigrants. They went to trading partners.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CaptainRich

REMEMBER THE ALAMO
I have no problem with Hispanics. Those who want to become citizens and contribute are very welcome. I visited some of the links you mentioned and though I didn't see any proof that any of the men I read about, mostly Medal of Honor recipients, were probably English speaking, and had either already obtained citizenship or were about to.
The big white elephant in the middle of the room is : are the ones who sneak over the border, through fences and over walls (that should have been a message), assault armed border patrol officers, are they the ones "fitting in?" Are they wanting to contribute? What about other nationalities (read: terrorists) coming here the same way? Do you not think something needs to be done to stop that?

---

Yes, I think that unrestricted border entries are not a good idea because of the criminal elements such as terroirists that can infiltrate. I simply don't think, however, that all the anger should be directed at the immigrants like Dobbs regularly does.

Those who took part in the Revolutionary War under General Galvez weren't USA citizens.


Excerpt

The following is excerpted from an article written by Lt J.D. Ortiz CHC, USNR. NTC Chaplain..

"Through the years, Hispanic American citizens have risen to the call of duty in defense of liberty and freedom. Their bravery is well known and has been demonstrated time and again, dating back to the aid rendered by General Bernardo de Galvez during the American Revolution".

-President Ronald Reagan

Few Americans are aware that Bernardo de Galvez was the Spanish governor of the Louisiana territory that encompassed 13 of our present states. They are also unaware that long before any formal declaration of war, General Galvez sent gunpowder, rifles, bullets, blankets, medicine and other supplies to the armies of General George Washington and General George Rogers Clark. Once Spain entered the war against Great Britain in 1779, this dashing young officer raised an army in New Orleans and drove the British out of the Gulf of Mexico. General Galvez captured five British forts in the Lower Mississippi Valley. They repelled a British and Indian attack in St. Louis, Missouri and captured the British fort of St. Joseph in present-day Niles, Michigan. With reinforcements from Cuba, Mexico, Puerto Rico, General Galvez captured Mobile and Pensacola, the capital of the British colony of West Florida. At Pensacola, Galvez commanded a multinational army of over 7,000 black and whitesoldiers. These men were born in Spain, Cuba, Mexico, Puerto Rico, Hispanola, and other Spanish colonies such as Venezuela. The city was defended by a British and Indian army of 2,500 soldiers and British warships.

An American historian called the siege of Pensacola "a decisive factor in the outcome of the Revolution and one of the most brilliantly executed battles of the war." Another historian stated that General Galvez' campaign broke the British will to fight. This battle ended in May 1781, just five months before the final battle of the war at Yorktown.

General Bernardo de Galvez and his contributions have been remembered even to this day with statues and even a city named in his honor, Galveston, Texas.

United States history textbooks seldom mention the important contributions by our "forgotten allies," Spain and Hispanic America, during the American Revolution. They also forget that they helped in the establishment and growth of the first democracy in the modern world.
The neglect in reporting Hispanic contributions extends to all periods of American history. Textbooks also fail to mention the role of 10,000 Hispanic soldiers who fought on both sides of the Civil War.

Role of General Bernando Galvez in the American Revolution



BTW
When you visit Hispanic sites and they mention contributions, what kind of proof do you require in order to be convinced that they aren't lying? Just curious.

Puerto Ricans in NASA - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If tomorrow, maybe when I post this banter... Suppose first thing tomorrow, no more illegal Mexican's came over. What if they, collectively, said, "They're right. We don't belong." And their assault on our border is done. Re : my white elephant... Who's going to stop the next wave to flood the weakness? The next wave of problems. Some say we shouldn't be in Baghdad. I say better Baghdad than Boston! We have a problem realizing that concept as a nation, party divided. That's just dumb.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CaptainRich

If tomorrow, maybe when I post this banter... Suppose first thing tommorow, no more illegal Mexican's came over. What if they, collectively, said, "They're right. We don't belong."

---

Hello again, Captain:

Who's going to come over next?? Well somebody because that lettuce is going to be picked by someone. And, if we don't let legal workers in to pick it, illegal ones will.

I think your post explains your fundamental misunderstanding of the problem. You think the Mexicans are coming here as a political statement or establish some sort of Mexican frontier, or to invade us.

Nothing could be further from the truth. Dude, they want to pick lettuce. They want to blow your leaves. They want to wash your dishes. They're poor. They don't care about politics. They just want to feed their family. And, the reason they're here, is because we have jobs. If they didn't fill them, are you going to? No, you're not. But somebody will. And, as long as GB doesn't fix the border, you're not going to like the next ones either.

excon

excon, you are so missing the point. If you say I don't care who picks, or washes, my lettuce, you're right. But my point is : If the WHOLE frigging world sees we can't control who comes in, anywhere!! ANY NATIONALITY!! then why have border patrols at all? What is your gain in this? Who are you, really? Really! You don't see any of this as wrong?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CaptainRich

Who are you, really? Really! You don't see any of this as wrong?

---

Hello again, Captain:

I guess you missed the part where I said the borders are broken. I, however, point the finger where it belongs -at YOUR FEDERAL GOVERNMENT - not at the brown skinned people who want to make your bed at Motel 6.

Who am I? What's the difference. I'm a guy who disagrees with you. Isn't that enough?

excon

Again, a blancket as a platitudinal answer. "YOUR FEDERAL GOVERNMENT" Who changed the funding priorities? Who decided we spend too much on border patrols? I know I wouldn't support cutting it! If takes, say, twenty to fifty thousand, (note: American dollars!) for some Mexican's to smuggle in, do you think other groups, perhaps some of the names mentioned on national TV, do you think they could get a few buck together for their own cause...

Hello again, Captain:

Ok, I'll try to sum it up for you.

We have jobs. Mexicans want jobs. We prevent them from coming here legally, but because our borders are open, they come here anyway. Because we really do want the lettuce to be picked, we're lax on letting them come. Hence, (your point), we have no idea who IS coming over the borders. That's bad. That's a broken immigration system resulting in the broken borders we have now.

The broken immigration system is the problem because it doesn't allow enough legal workers to come. Blame your legislators who didn't fix it 20 years ago.

If we fixed the immigration system so that we could fill all the lettuce picking jobs, and all the dish washing jobs and all the rest of these jobs with legal workers, then we can be pretty sure that the guy who IS sneaking over the border ISN'T coming here to mow your lawn.

If we did that, that would be good for us. No?

excon

I will go into the Flood issues, all I can see shows that the state and local government was at the major fault and that honestly the federal government did not have the man power to do anything but give support to state agencies which did nothing basically. And of course we all know that the local government not fixing their problems caused most of it, and of course the local government having a plan but refusing to follow it, caught most of the people in the situatoin they had.

As for the tax cuts, yes they helped get the economy up to where it was at, I can't see why anyone can talk bad against the interest rates, the stock market and the great increase in tax dollars that happened from the cuts just as promised.

As for as washing the lettuce well it nees to be done better no matter who is doing it.

But it is our political system, not any one party, not any one political person, who is at blame on the immigration issue, They all want the 12 million voters voting for them, none of them are going to do anything to lose those votes. They are all putting htier parties and their re-election over the safety of the nation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gogosean

AW805 suggests starting at the top. Where is the top? We used to have money in the bank before GW's tax cuts and false pretenses of national security had to be financed. The US government really isn't even trying to fix this. Look at how the feds handled Katrina. I think it is very kind of you to still have faith in those at the TOP, but where are they? They are doing photo ops in safe zones in the middle east while many of our loved ones are asking where the hell their body armour is. Maybe it got stuck in an immigrant's sewing machine. Maybe the overseas sweatshops are falling behind filling all the jobs that have moved overseas. What happened to the jobs that count? They didn't go to immigrants. They went to trading partners.

---

Tangencies gogosean. Your forgetting the original post. It's illegal to hire an illegal. Our country needs to start coming down on employers who are not following the law.