Do you believe they are a cancer on our society, bleeding our resources, polluting our urban landscape and threatening our security?


What can be done politically to rid America of this abomination; the poor who are feckless, hopeless, lacking self-worth, motivation and any common levels of decency. We cannot afford to let them breed another generation of their kind.

:confused:
I hope you are being sarcastic.
I would not use any of those adjectives for the poor in general.

Maybe some poor people hate being poor too?

I don't believe in sending food to poor nations, or using resources in the wrong way, like just handing food out food in shelters. That is only a disguise, and it does not actually help the poor advance.

I mean, why would we need people who make 6 dollars an hour, and work 12 hours a day anyway? WHO WOULD THAT BENNEFIT? Does it bennefit the poor? Does that help the poor... if not, then who does it help?

We need to start thinking of how we can prevent this social problem. And to not create even more poor people; for that would only increase our crime rates and instability of society.

We should also look at what makes poor people, and not be narrow minded enough to think that they are all just lazy. Just as it is very wrong to believe that a lot of rich people are cold-blooded individuals.

Maybe a whole lot of reading would help, from numerous perspectives, and thus numerous suggestions and theories will be found to help produce the BEST way to prevent there being poor people.

So I half-agree with you. I don't hate the poor, but I hate there being poverty.

:) Thanks for your post. I think a lot more people should focus on this issue.

The poor are a problem. It is interesting. I was working on the Forbes 400 issue of Forbes magazine this morning. One article addressed the Forbes One Billion, the billion poorest people on earth. Forbes wants to look at constructive solutions to the problem. Finding workable ones would benefit all.

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Originally Posted by Dark_crow

Do you believe they are a cancer on our society, bleeding our resources, polluting our urban landscape and threatening our security?


What can be done politically to rid America of this abomination; the poor who are feckless, hopeless, lacking self-worth, motivation and any common levels of decency. We cannot afford to let them breed another generation of their kind.

---

Are you freakin serious?

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Originally Posted by Sad Soul

Maybe some poor people hate being poor too?

I don't believe in sending food to poor nations, or using resources in the wrong way, like just handing food out food in shelters. That is only a disguise, and it does not actually help the poor advance.

I mean, why would we need people who make 6 dollars an hour, and work 12 hours a day anyway? WHO WOULD THAT BENNEFIT? Does it bennefit the poor? Does that help the poor... if not, then who does it help?

We need to start thinking of how we can prevent this social problem. And to not create even more poor people; for that would only increase our crime rates and instability of society.

We should also look at what makes poor people, and not be narrow minded enough to think that they are all just lazy. Just as it is very wrong to believe that a lot of rich people are cold-blooded individuals.

Maybe a whole lot of reading would help, from numerous perspectives, and thus numerous suggestions and theories will be found to help produce the BEST way to prevent there being poor people.

So I half-agree with you. I don't hate the poor, but I hate there being poverty.

:) Thanks for your post. I think a lot more people should focus on this issue.

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There are far too many people who have nothing to lose. They go through generations with no decent jobs, no decent education, and no prospect of anything better. Is it any wonder they lack motivation and self worth.

Who created the urban ghettos, maybe that is the place to start?

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Originally Posted by labman

The poor are a problem. It is interesting. I was working on the Forbes 400 issue of Forbes magazine this morning. One article addressed the Forbes One Billion, the billion poorest people on earth. Forbes wants to look at constructive solutions to the problem. Finding workable ones would benefit all.

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I don’t believe that there is a universal answer, but certainly in America we ought to be able to reduce the number greatly. In a capitalist society there will always be poor people.

I believe that there is a certain class of people who completely ignore the poor politically and believe that caring for the poor in strictly a charitable issue. That is, government in helping the poor is simply a matter of government theft.

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Originally Posted by Dark_crow

I don’t believe that there is a universal answer, but certainly in America we ought to be able to reduce the number greatly. In a capitalist society there will always be poor people.

I believe that there is a certain class of people who completely ignore the poor politically and believe that caring for the poor in strictly a charitable issue. That is, government in helping the poor is simply a matter of government theft.

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Your initial statement was more harsh than I think you were meaning.

I think we (the US, government) need to stop spreading ourselves so thin and getting invovled in every fight in the world and focus much more of our attention on issues raised within our borders. We are a young but strong country and need to create a foundation for ourselves in order to stay the course. That starts at home in the poverty stricken areas, with medical care, with immigration, etc

[QUOTE=Dark_crow] They go through generations with no decent jobs, no decent education, and no prospect of anything better. Is it any wonder they lack motivation and self worth.

QUOTE]

I have to take some offense at this.

I have my Bachelor's Degree and am currently working on two Masters simultaneously. I work as a teacher, because that's where I feel I'm supposed to be.

I have a family of 5, and due to a whole slew of reasons, my wife does not work outside our home.

However, I have tremendous self-worth (most of the time), and am highly motivated.

Yet there are times when we've had to borrow money just to eat, and the way I see it, that makes us rather poor. We don't live beyond our means, but our means are rather meager.

Yet I've chosen this career path, not out of a desire to be wealthy, but rather out of a desire to touch the lives of our children in a positive and meaningful way.

So what would you have them do with me?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dark_crow

Do you believe they are a cancer on our society, bleeding our resources, polluting our urban landscape and threatening our security?


What can be done politically to rid America of this abomination; the poor who are feckless, hopeless, lacking self-worth, motivation and any common levels of decency. We cannot afford to let them breed another generation of their kind.

---

I hate people who are unmotivated and expect the world to bow to their every need. I hate people who have a false sense of entitlement. I hate people who place no value on themselves, their self-worth, or their accomplishments. Am I describing poor people? What about Paris Hilton, she's not poor and she fits the bill pretty well.

There are poor people who are poor because they refuse to work. I don't care much for them. There are poor people who are poor because of life circumstances which are beyond their control. Those are the people who need help.

I worked with the poor for six years when I was a social worker, and they really are a pain in the rear end to people with good solid middle class values! I had all I could take years ago! All the depression and ignorance and self defeating behavior of the poor! They couldn't make plans and follow through! Just endless suffering which was they modeled for their children. Drugs, alcohol, whoring, crime, malnutrition, hopelessness, depression...

But, your question begs the question... what is the meaning of *decency*. Who is "decent"? I know American politicians, especially the fascists in the White House, are not decent human beings. Are religionists who subtlely send a hate message decent? Are corporate heads decent? And so on!

First, define poor? What is the income of the poor? What level of assets?

Second, do I find poor people to be a cancer on our society, bleeding our resources, polluting our urban landscape and threatening our security?


Depends. Are they?

There are some poor people who are working HARD to be independent, and there are others who are professional couch potatoes.

The farmer who is up at 3am milking the cows and plowing the fields and goes to sleep at 10 pm after a hrd days work of providing for his family has NOTHING BUT MY RESPECT. The urban father working three jobs to put food on the table for his family deserves respect and, where possible, help.

The professional welfare recipient who's not interested in getting a job because the gubment covers all his expenses? The welfare mommy who has more babies for no other reason than so that her welfare benefits will increase... that's a whole other story.

And "poor people" are not a threat to national security. ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS are a threat to national security, by force of the fact that we don't know who or where they are or what their intentions are in being in this country illegally. The fact that most illegal immigrants are poor doesn't make poor people the threat.

Finally, in most cases it is not the poor that are causing the problems. In most cases it is those who are trying to "fix" things that are the cause of the problem. Usually by creating more poor and by creating an environment in which those who are poor have no desire to make themselves a better life.

In short, it isn't poor people who are the threat. It's LIBERALS who are "a cancer on our society, bleeding our resources, polluting our urban landscape and threatening our security?"

Now... as for what can be done to rid the country of this abomination of "liberalism"... try voting.

Elliot

[QUOTE=kindj]

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Originally Posted by Dark_crow

They go through generations with no decent jobs, no decent education, and no prospect of anything better. Is it any wonder they lack motivation and self worth.

QUOTE]

I have to take some offense at this.

I have my Bachelor's Degree and am currently working on two Masters simultaneously. I work as a teacher, because that's where I feel I'm supposed to be.

I have a family of 5, and due to a whole slew of reasons, my wife does not work outside our home.

However, I have tremendous self-worth (most of the time), and am highly motivated.

Yet there are times when we've had to borrow money just to eat, and the way I see it, that makes us rather poor. We don't live beyond our means, but our means are rather meager.

Yet I've chosen this career path, not out of a desire to be wealthy, but rather out of a desire to touch the lives of our children in a positive and meaningful way.

So what would you have them do with me?

---

I find it interesting that so often people only relate to the world through their own personal experience.

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Originally Posted by jillianleab

I hate people who are unmotivated and expect the world to bow to their every need. I hate people who have a false sense of entitlement. I hate people who place no value on themselves, their self-worth, or their accomplishments. Am I describing poor people? What about Paris Hilton, she's not poor and she fits the bill pretty well.

There are poor people who are poor because they refuse to work. I don't care much for them. There are poor people who are poor because of life circumstances which are beyond their control. Those are the people who need help.

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Why does someone refuse to work, isn’t that what people on a union strike do. Has it ever occurred to you that ‘Something” in their life may have influenced them…like their upbringing and schooling?

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Originally Posted by Dark_crow

I find it interesting that so often people only relate to the world through their own personal experience.

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Not at all. For the last few years, I've been working in a school district where the poverty level is about 75%, give or take accounting for varying definitions of the poverty line.

For several years before that, I worked for a non-profit agency that dealt exclusively with the impoverished.

As I told Choux, I read a book that sort of opened my eyes to the way the poor see the world, which is very different than the way the middle class (whoever THEY are) see it, which is different still than the way the upper class sees the world. It's by Ruby Payne, and it's called "A Framework for Understanding Poverty." It's one of the few I've read that actually had anything constructive, beneficial, and useful to it. It leaves out the stinkin' politics of the whole thing and focuses on the different worldviews. Give it a read sometime, I think you'll like it. It's easy to read, and very enlightening.

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Originally Posted by ETWolverine

First, define poor? What is the income of the poor? What level of assets?

Second, do I find poor people to be a cancer on our society, bleeding our resources, polluting our urban landscape and threatening our security?


Depends. Are they?

There are some poor people who are working HARD to be independent, and there are others who are professional couch potatos.

The farmer who is up at 3am milking the cows and plowing the fields and goes to sleep at 10 pm after a hrd days work of providing for his family has NOTHING BUT MY RESPECT. The urban father working three jobs to put food on the table for his family deserves respect and, where possible, help.

The professional welfare recipient who's not interested in getting a job because the gubment covers all his expenses? The welfare mommy who has more babies for no other reason than so that her welfare benefits will increase... that's a whole other story.

And "poor people" are not a threat to national security. ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS are a threat to national security, by dint of the fact that we don't know who or where they are or what their intentions are in being in this country illegally. The fact that most illegal immigrants are poor doesn't make poor people the threat.

Finally, in most cases it is not the poor that are causing the problems. In most cases it is those who are trying to "fix" things that are the cause of the problem. Usually by creating more poor and by creating an environment in which those who are poor have no desire to make themselves a better life.

In short, it isn't poor people who are the threat. It's LIBERALS who are "a cancer on our society, bleeding our resources, polluting our urban landscape and threatening our security?"

Now... as for what can be done to rid the country of this abomination of "liberalism"... try voting.

Elliot

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Like Wittgenstein, I don’t have to define anything, just hop in your car and drive to the nearest urban Ghetto… for you I guess that may be Harlem.

The poor that are reliant on governmental systems are a class that will not easily be corrected. That is truly a problem but not one that needs focus on. We need to focus on providing for the people trying to make a difference. Up the requirements of welfare, shroter the time allowed on welfare, create a system to catch the offenders of the system, etc. We should be putting more of our resources into strengthening the middle class that will very shortly not exist. They are hardworking and dependable but are not rightly compensated. They fall into many "grey" areas for assistance and/or cannot get health care because they are choosing food and shelter over pricey health care. We need to abolish poverty that exists due to mental illness or extenuating circumstances. We should not have elderly or young children in houses that have no food or heat, not in this country that spends trillions of dollars on aid to foreign country (not that that is wrong) or on national defense or on building a freakin wall across the Mexico border!!

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Originally Posted by kindj

Not at all. For the last few years, I've been working in a school district where the poverty level is about 75%, give or take accounting for varying definitions of the poverty line.

For several years before that, I worked for a non-profit agency that dealt exclusively with the impoverished.

As I told Choux, I read a book that sort of opened my eyes to the way the poor see the world, which is very different than the way the middle class (whoever THEY are) see it, which is different still than the way the upper class sees the world. It's by Ruby Payne, and it's called "A Framework for Understanding Poverty." It's one of the few I've read that actually had anything constructive, beneficial, and useful to it. It leaves out the stinkin' politics of the whole thing and focuses on the different worldviews. Give it a read sometime, I think you'll like it. It's easy to read, and very enlightening.

---

I make my distinction between the working class and the underclass (poor). I prefer a world in which everybody is given a fair chance to make something of themselves. Where everybody has got something to lose. The poor can never be the engine of their own social change because they have nothing to lose. They never have been, they never will be. Only the rich can be the engine of social change.

Seems to me, with that kind of attitude, Dark_ Crow may be the poorest person of all. I am amazed at the number of times the word "hate" is in this post.

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Originally Posted by Dark_crow

The poor can never be the engine of their own social change because they have nothing to lose. Only the rich can be the engine of social change.

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If the poor is as large a percentage of the population as many say, think of the tremendous power in their hands if they all simply register to vote and DO IT. That in itself could be tremendously constructive.

On the flip side, if we handed them all copies of some Karl Marx reading material...

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Originally Posted by Dark_crow

Why does someone refuse to work, isn’t that what people on a union strike do. Has it ever occurred to you that ‘Something” in their life may have influenced them…like their upbringing and schooling?

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Pardon me, I didn't know I had to make an allowance for every single possibility for the reason someone might be poor or not working. Forgive my ignorance for thinking you would see beyond the obvious distinctions between someone who is striking because of unfair labor conditions and someone who's sense of entitlement gets in the way of actually achieving something. I must be some sort of dumb@ss. :rolleyes:

Of course the "something" can be lack of education and lack of opportunity, which would be something that was beyond their control. I believe I said those are the people I want to help. YUP! Sure did!

I think America should become a full communist society where everyone is equal (accept your leaders of course) and stop draining other countries of their natural resources. That would end your poor problem as well.

Because communism has worked so well for other countries, Greg?

I am one of the poorer people in the USA and live in the hood. I have four grown kids and we lived on less than $1,000. A month when they were little and I am not doing much better now. I KNOW what you mean as far as like what jillb said the lazy ones that act like they are owed everything and waste what they do get (especially on drugs), BUT there are people like me that work really hard and try to get their goal of getting ahead and getting out of the hood and even helping others. It seems though the harder I try the farther behind I get and I have very little help to NO help with much of anything.

Yes, Greg. It's true. Poverty doesn't seem like such a problem when EVERYONE is poor. Just ask any immigrant who grew up in the Soviet Union during the period of 1920-1990 what it was like and how effective it was at fighting poverty. And of course the Soviets never invaded any other country in oder to steal their natural resources...

Elliot

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Originally Posted by Greg Quinn

I think America should become a full communist society where everyone is equal (accept your leaders of course) and stop draining other countries of their natural resources. That would end your poor problem as well.

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No type of Government can run an economy efficiently; the Soviet Union showed that, it left a lot to be desired. On the other hand the grinding poverty and the disenchantment and misery it generates show just as clearly that a capitalist alternative is no Utopia. That is precisely why I advocate a free market.:)

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Originally Posted by jillianleab

Pardon me, I didn't know I had to make an allowance for every single possibility for the reason someone might be poor or not working. Forgive my ignorance for thinking you would see beyond the obvious distinctions between someone who is striking because of unfair labor conditions and someone who's sense of entitlement gets in the way of actually achieving something. I must be some sort of dumb@ss. :rolleyes:

Of course the "something" can be lack of education and lack of opportunity, which would be something that was beyond their control. I believe I said those are the people I want to help. YUP! Sure did!

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I said what I did in hopes of showing how naïve it is to refer to those people who do not want to work…how do you separate them from someone who wants to work…on what basis can you make that judgment?

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Originally Posted by Dark_crow

I said what I did in hopes of showing how naive it is to refer to those people who do not want to work…how do you separate them from someone who wants to work…on what basis can you make that judgment?

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DC, I know why you made the statement. And surely you are intelligent enough to know that I was not referring to someone who WANTS to work and cannot but rather someone who CHOOSES not to work. By "chooses" I mean, "I can't work at McDonald's! It's McDonald's!" or, "Nah, the gubment will send me more money if I get pregnant again, I don't need a job" or, "Why should I work? The gubment has lots of money, they OWE me" I made a quick, broadbased post. I did not take the time to spell out my "plan" because I assumed those reading my post would be able to infer the differences mentioned above. I am not putting out a campaign speech, so why must I make every single post a thorough as possible and assume I am talking to someone who can't make logical assumptions?

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Originally Posted by N0help4u

I am one of the poorer people in the USA and live in the hood. I have four grown kids and we lived on less than $1,000. a month when they were little and I am not doing much better now. I KNOW what you mean as far as like what jillb said the lazy ones that act like they are owed everything and waste what they do get (especially on drugs), BUT there are people like me that work really hard and try to get their goal of getting ahead and getting out of the hood and even helping others. It seems though the harder I try the farther behind I get and I have very little help to NO help with much of anything.

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So from that I can only conclude that something is awfully wrong with the system of government intervention. When a person can work hard for a lifetime and not get ahead something must be terribly wrong with the system of economics. Your situation is not unique, you are not an aberration, and you are like 40% of the population. Just who is taking from whom?:) :)

[QUOTE=Dark_crow]... something is awfully wrong with the system of government intervention. QUOTE]

Could it be that the government is intervening incorrectly? I'm not saying whether they should or shouldn't, that's a whole different discussion. But since they are intervening, are they doing it properly?

[QUOTE=kindj]

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Originally Posted by Dark_crow

...something is awfully wrong with the system of government intervention. QUOTE]

Could it be that the government is intervening incorrectly? I'm not saying whether they should or shouldn't, that's a whole different discussion. But since they are intervening, are they doing it properly?

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Welfare is a complete disaster; a form of government intervention. Conservatives today like to blame it on the liberals, but the truth of the matter is that intervention is what I term a “New conservative” policy. The ‘Old conservative’ was not interested in government intervention; they wanted to conserve only two things… liberty and free trade. They believed in the free market as a creative mechanism to improve society which presupposes that people prefer life to death, health to sickness … abundance to poverty. That is one reason why I cannot adopt the theory that there are a great many people who do not want to work. So yes, they are not only wrong to begin with, but doing it wrong too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dark_crow

I said what I did in hopes of showing how naive it is to refer to those people who do not want to work…how do you separate them from someone who wants to work…on what basis can you make that judgment?

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Basically there lifestyle! While I am trying to make money and get ahead and doing right by my family I look around me and watch the other single moms staying home and selling drugs to buy their own drugs. Selling their foodstamps to buy even more drugs. Then expecting other naighbors to feed and cloth their kids. They scream at their kids and don't know how to treat them. They have a new boyfriend every other month. When they do work it is long enough to get some Earned Income Credit then they quit. They act like everybody owes them and what they ARE given they waste. Have no direction, ambition or goals, etc...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dark_crow

Do you believe they are a cancer on our society, bleeding our resources, polluting our urban landscape and threatening our security?


What can be done politically to rid America of this abomination; the poor who are feckless, hopeless, lacking self-worth, motivation and any common levels of decency. We cannot afford to let them breed another generation of their kind.

---

1] no, from a Christian point of view, Matthew 25 about the sheep and the goats.

2] if you look at the census statistics
PROMOTE TRADITIONAL Marriage
To go along with this - get your education,high school at the very least
- don't have children before 20
- don't get married before 20

Family-Unfriendly Policies - US News and World Report

3] are the "poor" really poor?
They can get medicaid, subsidized housing, childcare, education grants etc.
There is no incentive to work a min wage job if you lose these 'benefits'

Can the working middle class get these?

4] get deadbeats to pay for their children -last I look the support rate was only 50%.
And have this money go directly to housing, utilities, school, health ins premiums
Rather than to the custodial parents bank acoount.

There should be equality of opportunity , but it is up to the individual to work hard for the results.







Grace and Peace

[QUOTE=Dark_crow]

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Originally Posted by kindj

Welfare is a complete disaster; a form of government intervention. Conservatives today like to blame it on the liberals, but the truth of the matter is that intervention is what I term a “New conservative” policy. The ‘Old conservative’ was not interested in government intervention; they wanted to conserve only two things… liberty and free trade. They believed in the free market as a creative mechanism to improve society which presupposes that people prefer life to death, health to sickness … abundance to poverty. That is one reason why I cannot adopt the theory that there are a great many people who do not want to work. So yes, they are not only wrong to begin with, but doing it wrong too.

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I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you, but it sounds like you've given this some thought.

If you had the ability to change it, what would you do?

(Seriously asking, not sarcasm)

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Originally Posted by N0help4u

Basically there lifestyle! while I am trying to make money and get ahead and doing right by my family I look around me and watch the other single moms staying home and selling drugs to buy their own drugs. Selling their foodstamps to buy even more drugs. Then expecting other naighbors to feed and cloth their kids. They scream at their kids and don't know how to treat them. They have a new boyfriend every other month. When they do work it is long enough to get some Earned Income Credit then they quit. They act like everybody owes them and what they ARE given they waste. Have no direction, ambition or goals, etc...

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When you enter a drug addicted person into the equation you enter something outside the norm of what constitutes someone who does not want to work. That is much closer to using the mentally ill as a norm.

[QUOTE=kindj]

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Originally Posted by Dark_crow

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you, but it sounds like you've given this some thought.

If you had the ability to change it, what would you do?

(Seriously asking, not sarcasm)

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In spite of what’s been said I think one good thing that is now being done, at least where I live, and that is a single mom with a child over 7 must get a job. If they don’t get a job they must go to the welfare office and spend the day applying for work and show proof of applications. They must spend 40 hours a week doing this and they are sent to work part of the time with agencies selected by the welfare department who pays them minimum wage. At one time for each dollar earned one dollar was deducted from the welfare income of a recipient. That only made the recipient work for less. However now for one dollar earned only 50 cents is withheld from welfare income. There in now an incentive to work and a time frame for the recipient to get ahead.

Kindj, I would not know where to start frankly…I’m afraid my hindsight is much better than my foresight. :) :)

I hate the rich. I just cannot wait for total anarchy so we can bar-b-que the bastards and eat them. You know they must be tender and tasty. I'll eat their livers with fava beans and a nice Chianti. Paris Hilton is too skinny to eat. Make jerky out of her.

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Originally Posted by Dark_crow

a single mom with a child over 7 must get a job.

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What if the child is handicapped? What is the mother is handicapped? What if it's a single dad? What about people who don't have kids? What about when there are no jobs the person is qualified for?

Just bustin' your you-know-whats! :p :D

I was being a little sarcastic in my post. But I would like to think a semi communist star-Trek type of western society could be possible one day. Of course that is just a dream... Also I am a geek, and it's not very likely the way things are going, maybe I should wait for god and government?

I am sorry, but I can't believe I have just read such a spitfull nasty point ov view, How about people who hate rich people! Maybe this would be a better topic!!