Quote:

---

Sorry disagree. If I could write a song it would go the same damn way. Get over it, people don't like Bushy and if they want to sing about how the worlds gone to LET THEM. Just sit back and watch as people will start to open their eyes... Bush ruined us.

---

Raynefreak, with all due respect, do you really believe that? I have no qualm with people expressing themselves - that's exactly what I'm doing - but whatever happened to civility, respect, rationality? There are people still obsessed with how "George Bush stole the 2000 election" yet I'm the one who should "get over it"?

In my opinion you're giving Bush way too much credit for "ruining" things. Just exactly how did he do that? How did Bush ruin things for you personally?

Well I'm not concerned with myself. Im concerned with this country, the world and people. I see an OK country going to szhit more-so because of the bad choices of its prez. I believe everything I say or I wouldn't say it... lol.

Quote:

---

Well I'm not concerned with myself. Im concerned with this country, the world and people. I see an OK country going to szhit more-so because of the bad choices of its prez. I believe everything i say or i wouldn't say it... lol.

---

Come on RF, you don't mind if I call you RF do you? I know I dissed your singer here but I'm trying to have a substantive discussion. Who isn't concerned about our country (except the Jihadists that started all this)? The economy is humming along nicely, unemployment has remained exceptionally low, and I sleep well at night because there have been no terrorist attacks on our soil in almost 6 years now.

So what exactly has Bush done to make this country "going to szhit"?

Even if that were true is it all his fault, or does anyone else bear responsibility - say perhaps Democrats and other mouthy know-it-alls that have spent the past 5 years on a personal crusade to destroy Bush? Seriously, what value has there been to engaging in an endless mission to destroy the administration? What precisely has that accomplished?

And so I ask again, how did Bush ruin things for you personally? You said "Bush ruined us", how so? If you can't explain it how can you make the claim?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raynefreak

Raynefreak Disagrees: Actually, just because SHE didn't personally do those things doesn't mean that she doesn't grasp the damage it does to ppl, how hard it can be. She feels sorry for them, want's to help them. I think she does charity. Get over yourself.

---

With all due respsect (which at this point is just about none), Raynefreak, you don't know szhit about this damn country. Its clear that you have not studied the history of this country one friggin bit. Don't you realize that kids have been doing exactly what you are doing for ages? Conforming to non-conformity... its nothing new. Get over yourself.

Back to the subject... Aside from having my home bombed, I have been through all that szhit. Busting my in the hot blazing sun for my child... living on the streets homeless... addicted to every drug under the sun... and look where I am now. I have survived through all that and now I bust my at a desk all day making more money that you could imagine.

And for the record, Pink has not had a hard days work in the sun one day in her life. Do you even know what her life has been all about? So you think that she has the right to give the president szhit for not doing all these things that she herself hasn't done? Think again.

I am not a bush supporter. I think he is a greedy, moronic fratboy. But I do know that the problems within this country run deeper than him. To blame him for all the problems in this country today is ignorant.

If you want to buck the system, you first need to grow up and understand it

Re: speechless post:
He has a point in a way. No president can affect you personally unless he comes to your workplace and fires you or slaps you in the face. So basically every president who has ever served has not affected you personally.

Now if you're talking about runaway debt, lowered world percetion, erosion of rights, condoning torture, etc. then you have a talking point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Now if you're talking about runaway debt, lowered world percetion, erosion of rights, condoning torture, etc. then you have a talking point.

---

Fair enough, but even then we still have to get to the details. Which party has done much of anything about runaway debt? Best I can tell, neither.

What caused "lowered world percetion" (sic), was it just Bush and his "imperialist policies," the fact he can't prounce "nuclear," or did anything else contribute? Such as rogue congressmen engaging in their own separate foreign policy ventures, their overdramatic overtures on "abuse," "torture," demeaning our troops and references to Pol Pot, Nazis and gulags? What about the overzealous, over-angry protestors running around the country spewing vitriol at every occasion, Hollywood actors and others buddying up to Hugo Chavez, Fidel and Ahmadinejad?

And for that matter, why should we care what people think that didn't have the balls to stand up to Jihadists and a man engaged in genocide of his own people? A man that relished in public executions and tortures, used chemical weapons on his own people, ravaged both and ancient culture and their ancient ecosystem, that gave the finger to the UN and the world for more than a dozen years - all to protect their own slimy deals with this devil?

Which of your rights, specifically, has been eroded? And what has the other side done to preserve your rights? If anyone is a threat to your rights it is the left, which is entirely for free speech as long as it agrees with them, is all for diversity as long as you think like they do, is devoted to tolerance in a very one-sided way and fights for freedom of religion unless you're a Christian.

Serious claims deserve serious discussion, not the same old talking points.

Actually you are right. Bush did the best job any man could do. Any negative aspects pointed out by anyone have absolutely nothing to do with the highest office in the country. He is Teflon. My apologies.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raynefreak

How about you do all those things, then when your done you have the right to biotch. She's merely singing about what ppl go through. She's been through enough, seen enough to be able to sing about issues. Hell i think she even does charity as well as many other artist and actors. YOU don't know hard work either...unless you are outside breaking your back everyday. In the heat, sun and sweat. Like MY dad. If you sit at a desk inside, that's (in my opinion) not hard work. A lot of ppl don't know true hard work in this sense...big whoop. Doesn't make u bad. She's informed and wants to let them know she knows and cares. *Pulls hair*

---

Rayne, you really are letting yourself down with stupid comments such as this above.

It is ridiculous of you to say that the only people who know hard work are those who work in outside back breaking jobs or with people in nursing homes etc.
Such a silly and immature response.

What about scientists who come up with new medicines each day that save people lives. What about engineers who design our roads, buildings and other infrastructure to live a somewhat comfortable life? What about the computer scientists who's inventions and hard work allow you to come on here and express your opinion to the world?

Please don't be so naïve and narrow minded or you will lose a lot of respect that you have gained with some earlier intelligent posts.

I don't like Bush and agree with a lot of the words in Pinks song. But she doesn't know hard work anymore than the rest of us so please don't use that as your argument!

Quote:

---

My rights, freedoms and security in my country was in jeopordy because of president bush, and being war, oil hungrey. Soon he will be coming after us.

---

Again, how so? Don't just level charges, explain them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Again, how so? Don't just level charges, explain them.

---

Here are a few links:

Open Letter to Gonzales, From the ENTIRE Harvard Law class of 1982
This ad ran in the Washington Post today, it is from ALL of his classmates from the Harvard Law class of 1982. It chastises his reckless disregard for the constitution for the wire tapping, suspension of habeas corpus, and the recent politically motivated firings.

The Must-Do List - New York Times
The Bush administration’s assault on some of the founding principles of American democracy marches onward.

A New York Times editorial?
The same Jason Blair paper?

Hardly fact.
Hardly credible.



Grace and Peace

So that's it then; any article that you don't like you will simply discredit the source. Figures.

[unsubscribes from thread]

Quote:

---

Open Letter to Gonzales, From the ENTIRE Harvard Law class of 1982
This ad ran in the Washington Post today, it is from ALL of his classmates from the Harvard Law class of 1982. It chastises his reckless disregard for the constitution for the wire tapping, suspension of habeas corpus, and the recent politically motivated firings.

---

Let's see here, this year Harvard Law School conferred 742 degrees on graduates, am I supposed to believe they only graduated 56 in 1982? I don't think so, "THE SIGNATORIES ARE ALL MEMBERS OF THE HARVARD LAW SCHOOL CLASS OF 1982," not the "ENTIRE Harvard Law class of 1982." It's those little distinctions that matter so much. And again, the content of their letter is rather vague and unsupported with evidence. You'd think Harvard educated attorneys would know about the importance of evidence over rhetoric. I'm not impressed.

Quote:

---

The Must-Do List - New York Times
The Bush administration’s assault on some of the founding principles of American democracy marches onward.

---

Puhleeeze, you offer a NYT editorial as evidence of Bush assaulting democracy? In case you didn't know let me refresh everyone's memory here on a couple of things the Times complains about.

Quote:

---

All the experts we spoke to agreed that the United States was entitled to hold the prisoners while active hostilities continued. This principle is recognized in the Third Geneva Convention and the First Additional Protocol, and is an established part of customary international law.

---

Any questions?

Several of these on the Times' "must-do list" are extensions of one of their gods, Bill Clinton's policies, such as "extraordinary renditions" (not to mention regime change in Iraq).

Ever heard this description of events by former Clinton intelligence advisor Richard Clarke?

Quote:

---

RICHARD CLARKE - Snatches, or more properly "extraordinary renditions," were operations to apprehend terrorists abroad, usually without the knowledge of and almost always without public acknowledgement of the host government.. . The first time I proposed a snatch, in 1993, the White House Counsel, Lloyd Cutler, demanded a meeting with the President to explain how it violated international law. Clinton had seemed to be siding with Cutler until Al Gore belatedly joined the meeting, having just flown overnight from South Africa. Clinton recapped the arguments on both sides for Gore: Lloyd says this. Says that. Gore laughed and said, "That's a no-brainer. Of course it's a violation of international law, that's why it's a covert action. The guy is a terrorist. Go grab his ."

---

So why does Bush get all the blame? Do you have anything more specific now, such as facts?

The point of this whole post was to just share thoughts about a song. I liked it. That's all. I'm not going to talk about polotics much, because in the past I'm no good at it, and I don't know much about everything in the world. I care, not much but some. I've never been a bright person, so id rather not continue to make myself look like a fool. I'm also not good at explaining certain feelings about things. I'm sorry, but I'm not. Thus I will appologize until I can actually explain. However, regarding work, I realize that Pink hasn't done REAL work and neither have I. I've just seen that its harder and more dangerous to work outside or in those envoronments. Didn't mean to offened. Just, id rather work inside in a heartbeat (if I had a job).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raynefreak

The point of this whole post was to just share thoughts about a song. I liked it. That's all. I'm not going to talk about polotics much, because in the past i'm no good at it, and i don't know much about everything in the world. I care, not much but some. I've never been a bright person, so id rather not continue to make myself look like a fool. I'm also not good at explaining certian feelings about things. I'm sorry, but i'm not. Thus i will appologize til i can actually explain. However, regarding work, i realize that Pink hasn't done REAL work and neither have i. I've just seen that its harder and more dangerous to work outside or in those envoronments. Didn't mean to offened. Just, id rather work inside in a heartbeat (if i had a job).

---

Rayne, that's cool, but if you post it on the politics board expect to get feedback. With that said, don't sell yourself short, don't be afraid to share your feelings, and no apologies necessary. The whole point of my responses is to get people to think beyond the rhetoric and the talking points and EXAMINE the facts. If this country is to ever get beyond the viciousness and division that is the state of politics we need to rely more on facts and less on emotion and propaganda.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raynefreak

The point of this whole post was to just share thoughts about a song. I liked it. That's all. I'm not going to talk about polotics much, because in the past i'm no good at it, and i don't know much about everything in the world. I care, not much but some. I've never been a bright person, so id rather not continue to make myself look like a fool. I'm also not good at explaining certian feelings about things. I'm sorry, but i'm not. Thus i will appologize til i can actually explain. However, regarding work, i realize that Pink hasn't done REAL work and neither have i. I've just seen that its harder and more dangerous to work outside or in those envoronments. Didn't mean to offened. Just, id rather work inside in a heartbeat (if i had a job).

---

Group hug! :D

Id would have given you a greenie for this post but I have to spread it around before it will let me

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raynefreak

The point of this whole post was to just share thoughts about a song. I liked it. That's all. I'm not going to talk about polotics much, because in the past i'm no good at it, and i don't know much about everything in the world. I care, not much but some. I've never been a bright person, so id rather not continue to make myself look like a fool. I'm also not good at explaining certian feelings about things. I'm sorry, but i'm not. Thus i will appologize til i can actually explain. However, regarding work, i realize that Pink hasn't done REAL work and neither have i. I've just seen that its harder and more dangerous to work outside or in those envoronments. Didn't mean to offened. Just, id rather work inside in a heartbeat (if i had a job).

---

FIRST - Your shared your thoughts and I personally understand completely where you come from. Thoughts about the song.

SECOND - Just because you do not think your good at politics does not mean that what you say or do does not effect us all and government. Does not mean that you can not voice your opinion. You, me and everybody else has that right to speak up and say something no matter whether people agree or disagree.

THIRD - You're a very bright person and I personally seen that right away. Your unique and special. In a very good way.

FOURTH - Your very good at expressing your thoughts and feelings it just takes somebody that is able to be understanding and patient without judging.

FIFTH - Do not appologise for being you, do not appologise for expressing your thoughts and feelings, do not let other people shape the way you think or feel. No need to say sorry you did nothing wrong and said nothing wrong.

SIXTH - It just takes one person at a time. Helping somebody just by what you say. Just helping somebody by being understanding. The little things that may be done to make somebody else's day actually goes a lot further then you may think.

SEVENTH - I hope you did not get offended by me answering this way. I do this sometimes. Hope you like it. Lol

Joe