Comments on this post
bushg disagrees: id di not say ii agreed with the war only that I thank the soilders...they are just following commands

I did not say you didn't thank the soldiers. I didn't say you agreed with the war. I didn't say they weren't just following commands. In fact if you read my posts in this thread I have clearly stated I place no blame with the soldiers. Your disagreement was totally uncalled for and wrong.

I simply asked you a question how you consider this war in Iraq to be about defending our freedom and protecting our countries. That was my question.

You must not be able to read properly if you could not see that!!

Skell I did not answer your thread to begin with... I answered wiggitywackiraq.. jesus it wasn't directed at you. I'll say it again,thank you American Soldiers

Most people don't choose where they go, once they are in the military they are "sent" to war... just because someone is a soldier, doesn't mean they agree with the war. And even if they agreed with the war, the only person that can be blamed or deserves to be "spit on" is the one who started the war. And even that is up for personal interpretation. Some may feel it was the presidents fault. Some may feel it was the various terrorist organizations in Iraq. Either way, the troops cannot be blamed and only deserve our respect and support.

And because I have a feeling Rayne may say something to this extent: Those who have joined during the war may feel obligated or as if it is their duty to fight and do something honorable. To be courageous and face death, pain and suffering. That is something you, Rayne, are too cowardly to face and so you use your naïve thoughts and beliefs to hide behind. So that said, you need to stop hating on these people because they are doing something which you, nor I, even can imagine the courage it takes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bushg

skell I did not answer your thread to begin with... I answered wiggitywackiraq.. jesus it wasn't directed at you. I'll say it again,thank you American Soldiers

---

You disagreed with my post. And what you said when you disagreed was directed at me. Do you even understand what you are saying here. Please go and read your contributions again. This includes your ratings of people answers.

Your very frustrating.

Quote:

---

=Greg Quinn]They are dying for oil and that's it. LOOK FOR THE ADGENDAS PEOPLE!!

---

So in my quest to be as objective as possible while still hanging on to my values, I want to know more about our oil agenda. It definitely would make sense (from a capitalist standpoint), and I will admit that it may be possible that our entire purpose for going into Iraq is for control of oil (though maybe I don't want to admit that we are that corrupt of a country). This doesn't seem like something that we have any evidence for, at least that I have heard or read.

I have heard many people use this argument, and they may be right and they may be wrong. Is this documented or just opinion? I am asking sincerely.

Logically, it would seem that if this was a documented fact and not just an opinion held by some, that there would be a huge investigation led by the Dems into this. So far, I have only heard arguments about grounds for impeachment based on the lack of evidence for WMDs. This leads me to believe that it is not substantiated nor will it be (this doesn't mean that it isn't true). If it is true, why am I spending almost as much money on gasoline each month as I do on food (does this seem wrong to anyone else but me)?

I feel like spitting on someone when I drop $55 on a tank of gas. Who should I blame for this?

If we don't take control of the middle east and their oil, China and Russia will certainly get around to it. A zillion Chinese soldiers would have had it finished by now though. The same way they would finish us off if we happened to run out of oil. Thank the inept jerks, Democrats and Republicans for not giving our troops the support and the means to make short work of it. Since WWII, we seem to have forgotten how. I want to end it by winning so our troops can come home.
Rosie O'Donnal is a fat, stupid pig. I can't listen to her since I can't look at her.
As far as that little puke that spit on your buddies, he needs his a*# whooped!

This is to my friend Auttajasi : Quote... It definitely would make sense (from a capitalist standpoint), and I will admit that it may be possible that our entire purpose for going into Iraq is for control of oil (though maybe I don't want to admit that we are that corrupt of a country). This doesn't seem like something that we have any evidence for, at least that I have heard or read.
Unquote...

I'm not being rude but I have a ton of info that would blow your mind and I will pm you soon... But easy info is just type in war and oil on Google and read topics that come up. I was reading the paper 3yrs ago and saw a little something about Iran, I said "Oh no that's where they are heading next!" And now look. I have a friend named Corie, awesome guy, he has kind of lost himself doing research on this and other subjects. There is a rabbit hole, and I promise that it is so much darker and deeper than you could ever imagine. Some people really hate the truth. And they choose to ignore things that are so easy to see, you just have to look. My military buds know and really don't care. I don't really respect that but at the end of their sights may be an innocent civi, and I know they wouldn't pull the trigger. I'm pretty sure you would do the same Auttajasi. Off topic... I have so many sites you should see, and I have a DVD underground collection from Corie that stands tall, I assure you that proof is thick as oil. But needs to be researched.

The War for Oil

War For Oil?

In Iraqi War Scenario, Oil Is Key Issue (washingtonpost.com)
That is just a few. Make sure you investigate with out prejudice and tell me if you find more than motive. I have so many sites in my mind but can't retrieve any off hand due to my dropping all of this about a year ago. It can be too much. I'll have a few for tomorrow.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by deedee06

And because I have a feeling Rayne may say something to this extent: Those who have joined during the war may feel obligated or as if it is their duty to fight and do something honorable. To be courageous and face death, pain and suffering. That is something you, Rayne, are too cowardly to face and so you use your naive thoughts and beliefs to hide behind. So that said, you need to stop hating on these people because they are doing something which you, nor I, even can imagine the courage it takes.

---

Oops... I disagree with that last bit, that's what happens when you have a kid. Sorry I was distracted. Rayne is not a COWARD as far as I know and I'm pretty sure you as well, you have not seen this person in action what so ever! You can't just go and say something like that. In prison if you call someone a rat they better be a f***'n rat. Well, where I come from if you if you call someone a coward you better be damn sure they are one. People have opinions and sometimes they are wrong and deserve a verbal lick, but that had 0 wit in it. Why did you call Rayne a coward?

First of all thank you for serving our country. My husband recently returned from Iraq and my father a 37 year retired marine served in veitnam. All I can say is simply this FORGET ABOUT ROSIE ODONNELL!! its nothing but a ratings ploy and she's off the show now for good. Don't listen to the celebrity mentality cause no one believes it. Rose is a stupid insincere woman who has nothing but her own agenda to work on. She wants her own show and thinks this is how to get it.
That said. Every man woman and child here are for the soldiers. We are pro soldier. There's not one person who is not affected by having a family member or knows someone who is serving. Even with my husband home, I still pray for everyone of you to come home safely.
As for the veitnam mentality, you got to see that we are the children of those service people who weren't treated with respect and called baby burner as my father was at the time of his home coming. We don't like the war or any war. But we do support the soldiers over there fighting. You walk on walls and tell us it's going to be allright. You walk off planes on a 30/30 insertion and don't blink an eye. You don't just serve your country you are the back bone of the country. You are the reason that flag stands for freedom.
So let Rosie have her say and let all her hot air out. Once she's done that, she'll disappear into thin air.

I'm proud to know people like you, my husband and my father does too.

Be careful and be safe. Come home soon. We love you.

Ha ha... sorry I was angry. There should be a "maybe" in there somewhere. But still, she has no idea what it is like. Neither do I really for that matter. But I have had friends in the war and friends who have contemplated joining the war. Most of them are sick with fear before they decide to do it. It's tough and I wish soldiers would just be respected for how courageous they are.

Deedee you call me a coward. I suppose you could say that, but I disagree. If I am a coward then why do I not fear speaking my mind weither you or anyone like what I say or not? Some people are too scared to speak their mind, I'm not. That makes your staement contradictory I'm not scared of anything except that maybe I wolnt go to heaven. I've taken care of myself for years and in doing so got my way out of tough spots.. Point is I never once said or meant to say that I don't have respect for soldiers. I do, and I do wish them all well, but sorry they aid in something I do not support and thus I cannot comply with what they do. I'm in no way naïve, I have had to grow up faster then a lot of kids do. My folks weren't there to teach me things I taught myself. I'm certainly not going to allow someone who knows nothing of me break me down. Sorry I have more strength then that. Your 18 right? Your probably still in school, so I think you have some more learning to do. As do we all. Only some of us have to learn faster then others. You see things one way as many other people may too. Sometime's being open minded is a good thing.

Rayne, I apologize for calling you a coward... honestly I didn't really mean it to be so harsh... it was more of a proposition not a statement.

Yea, I'm pretty familiar with a Google search. That's how I got here. I wanted to know what you thought about it. There are a million sites about the "War for oil." I am not inclined to believe something just because someone wrote it and posted it on the internet trying to increase traffic to their site, while at the same time, raking in some dough from advertisers. Anybody can write an article.

I Wrote:
"I have heard many people use this argument, and they may be right and they may be wrong. Is this documented or just opinion? I am asking sincerely."
"Documented" may have been the wrong word to use. In my field, documented doesn't mean just written down somewhere. It means published in a scholarly journal that has been peer reviewed.

I could write an article about how the Democrats actually blackmailed Bush into invading Iraq, but writing it wouldn't make it true.

The point I tried (and clearly failed) to make was that if this is so great an argument, why is it not the basis for Bush's impeachment? I would think this argument would be highly more effective than lying about WMDs (I'm still not convinced he lied. I think he may have been fooled like everybody else. Remember, you argue that he isn't the sharpest crayon in the box).
I am saying that it WOULD make sense from a capitalist standpoint and it MAY be possible, and it could also be seen as just a bonus for overthrowing one of the world's most vicious dictators. I've read a tiny chunk of the 32 million + sites on "war oil iraq" and there are a lot of good arguments in you favor. I want clear evidence and not just circumstantial.
To me, the fact that the Dems are pretty much leaving this one alone, tells me that while it may be a good argument, it is very hard to prove someone's intentions, and it isn't a can of worms that they want to open right now.
Dan Rather tried one of his hunches, and it turned out to be a huge journalistic mistake which cost him his career. Not saying that he wouldn't have been right (who knows; not my can or worms), but the lack of concrete evidence is what killed him.

Jesus I wish I was at home to help you with that... But the weapons of mass destruction should have been dealt with a long time ago. Try to find a documentary from a director that did the movie "trading places with Dan Ackroyd and Eddie Murphy" Its called "The truth about the Iraq war." Watch this and then look at when it was made... I promise you there are a lot of credentials in that one. Inarguable, that alone is not underground material and should be easy to find. That will set you on track for wmd's. I would say more than concrete. Indictable? LMAO!!

Its not bush, it's a group called the illuminati, and his henchmen.

I thought it was Skull and Bones?

Quote: tomder55 agrees: I did not know we exported our tin-foil hats to Canada.

Did you know that your administration has been making back door deals with our government about that war, and just about 5 and a half months ago George Bush and Stephen Harper {my idiot PM} made a silly deal, it started in 2005 and then early o7 they really brought it up. Canada oil sands to help meet Bush Mideast oil cut
Quote" UofA : George Bush could get closer to his goal of cutting U.S. dependence on Middle East crude but it won't be his futuristic plan to run cars on fuel made from wood chips or hydrogen that will do the trick.
It's Canada.?Bush laid out a plan in his State of the Union speech earlier this week to slash crude imports from the Middle East 75 percent by 2025, replacing the oil with alternative fuels at home.??
But yet-to-be released numbers from the U.S. Energy Information Administration, the analytical arm of the Department of Energy, show that crude from Canada's Alberta oil sands will help cut U.S. Mideast oil dependence by half in two decades.??
When Bush called for the cut in his speech he was targeting the current forecast of 6 million barrels per day of Mideast oil in 2025, hoping to cut it down to around 1.5 million barrels a day.??
New estimates the EIA plans to release later this month predict America's Mideast imports will be 3 million barrels a day in two decades, an EIA official told Reuters.??
The new data will show U.S. oil imports from Canada surging to 2.7 million barrels a day in 2025 from 1.6 million barrels currently. About three out of four of those barrels will be from Alberta's oil sands, where record oil prices have created a boom in investment.??

There is debate within the agency on whether the United States could take all of Canada's oil sands production, which the EIA estimates will be 3.2 million barrels a day in two decades.??

"If (the United States) receives it all, which we don't have in our forecast, it could reduce even more our dependence on the Middle East" oil supply, the EIA official said, speaking on condition of anonymity.?




About 95 percent of Canada's estimated 179 billion barrels of proven oil reserves are oil sands deposits in Alberta, according to the EIA.??
Now over the next five years we are expected to multiply our oil sand production 5 TIMES what it is now, 60% of Canada's emissions come from our oil sand production as of now. imagine how long this will go on? There will be a day when we say screw you! Your gov has screwed us out of our soft lumber and bought only our hard wood for so long. You have been taking our energy for nothing and raising all of our prices, "sun-cor California debt". And our fuel will eventually not be so cheap. So thank-you for the tin foil hats at least it's something. When your country decides to elect a war on Canada for our oil... Keep your eyes peeled for a tinfoil hat wearing guy strapped to a bomb.

You clearly have missed or failed to acknowledge my point again, so I may have to respectfully and humbly bow out of this one.

Yea, I have seen the video. I try to do my research despite what you may think. Unfortunately, if I am trying to find the bipartisan truth about something, moveon.org is NOT the place to go. Yes, the movie has high ranking officials speaking out, but in my opinion, it is a moot point. Nobody believes Bush and the current govt officials. Why should anybody be inclined to believe a handfull of former officials?

I am truly interested in the truth. Believe it or not, I am still in the middle on this one.
So far, I am convinced that taking out Saddam was a good thing.
I believe that the majority of the Iraqis are grateful for this despite what the media portrays.
I love the troops and support them 100%.
I think Rosie is a loose cannon and shouldn't even be considered a reliable source of information (on almost anything).
I feel that people should support the troops 100% despite what their reservations about the war or this administration may be.
I feel that protesting the war on Memorial Day is nothing more than a swift kick in the crotch to the families of those who have made the ultimate sacrifice (one of my best friends lost his life in Iraq), and those that are currently serving in the military. Any other day is fine. Yea, I know. Freedom of speech, but for cryin' out loud people; HAVE SOME COMPASSION.
These are not facts. These are my opinions.

I am not convinced, however, that we went about the war the right way or at the right time. Despite my service in the Marines, and my tour in Iraq, I am trying to look at this as objectively as possible. I clearly won't find the truth on the news. I'm not going to find it by watching a moveon.org movie or by going to a Hannity freedom concert. Clearly each of these avenues has an agenda, and that only pollutes the information and hinders someone's chances of finding the real truth.

You are welcome to PM me. I am never afraid to debate something.

Autta - You are a fine young man. So proud of you. So very proud.


There is something very disturbing about his last line of his post and personally, I would rethink welcoming a PM.

As I said I am not at home, I am lacking recsources and appoligized for that. There is a guy named Alex Jones. He has a web site... Find it, go through all of it. Take his links and have at er! He has all the answers you are looking for and more. You are not looking for a debate nor do you welcome one. You will surely avoid the truth and claim to have read up. Sorry you lost my respect. ALEX JONES

1) Can someone explain to me what a tin foil hat is. I have no clue. Thank you.
2) Greg, May I ask what you are thinking when you dare to disresepct one of our servicemen, past or present. Greg, how dare you. I know he does not need me defending him, surely, but it is a high insult to him as well as all service personnel and our entire country when you show such disrespect. Think I am exaggerting, I am not.

You do not have to agree with him, but I would hope you would have enough self respect to know enough to show one of ours the upmost of respect.

How dare you talk to one of ours that way. You do not have that right whatsover. None.
I would never ever speak to one of your military that way ever. I have met several Canadaian military personnel and they were some of the finest and resepctable men I had the pleasure of knowing. I also gave them the highest respect, I ask you do the same of our American military.

Shame on you.