[QUOTE=VBNomad]Why does the USA support Israel?

Because they think like Americans. We have a Judaic-Christian culture in common. They are a powerful nation in spite of their size. They are intelligent. Productive, etc. They will fight for their existence to the death unlike most European nations and perhaps even America. In Israel, we have an ally that, combined, have the best chance to convert the region to free and democratic principles which, if you are an American, you should encourage. We have a moral obligation to do what can be done to encourage regime change in all countries that subjugate their populations by dictatorial means. That will require a change in how we define 'sovereignty'. We need Israel because the United Nations is an impotent organization which we should abandon. They are, increasingly, not our friends. They can't even solve a relatively simple problen in Darfur. So people die.

Could it have something to do with the fact that in the holy land, sitting smack dab on the grounds of the long destroyed Christian Temple, there sits an Islamic Temple. Hummm, I don't know for sure and I would like to know if anyone has any ideas on this. I think, according to the Jews, it was once GODs permanent address. Also, according to Islam, Muhhamad asended straight up to heaven from there. Seems like a very sought after piece of real estate.

Must See: MPACUK - Must Watch Documentary: The Israel Lobby Exposed

YouTube - The Israel lobby (AIPAC): a danger to the world

Hello fit:

I'm a Jew. According to your propaganda, we've taken over the world. If that's so, then I declare you to be a jerk of monumental proportions.

excon

I just note who is responible for that stuff. It is clearly biased reporting. Mostly a rehash of the garbage that Arab countries have been spewing about Isreal since 1948.

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Originally Posted by fitnahpolice

Must See: MPACUK - Must Watch Documentary: The Israel Lobby Exposed

YouTube - The Israel lobby (AIPAC): a danger to the world

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Interesting but so one sided, as to be taken with a lot of salt. I guess everyone can have an opinion, right or wrong.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Interesting but so one sided, as to be taken with a lot of salt. I guess everyone can have an opinion, right or wrong.

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One thing I found interesting was the comments on the page. All supportive and almost none from arab sounding names. Makes one wonder.

I do think that U.S supports Israel for mainly three reasons:

1) is the guilt of western Christians for belated action ref massacre of jews
2) the influence of the Jewish Lobby
3) the anti-islam sentiments of the USA ( where they believe everyone is equal but that they are more equal then everyone else especially barbaric muslims!)


I know that a lot of people are going to claim this is anti-semitic but I'm actually pro-semitic since I support the claim of Palestinian people (muslim & christian) to inhabit their land since they are from semite stock.
Before anyone accuses me of being anti-jewish, I believe in the right of Jewish people to inhabit Jerusalem & lands that belong rightfully those arabs (palestinians) that lived there for generations, or in Europe or in the US but they do not have a right to arbitrarily take the land & murder innocent people (of all creeds).

I'd also like to present another distinction. That a differenced exists between normal jews & extremist Jews (zionists); After the holocaust (apologies as I do not have the original quote) Einstein stated that the Zionists were the biggest threat to Jews since Hitler & that they had no right to do to the palestinians what Hitler had attempted to do to them. Therefore the Isreali state is not a jewish state but more akin to the Taleban of Afghanistan, a extremist jewish state that insults the remaining conservative jewish populace.

I also believe everyone has a right to disagree with me & this admission I hope takes out the virulent sting of any postings that may reply to this.

But I digress because as one zionist has eloquently stated in this forum that, it is what they achieve by might, not what is right that counts.
Going back to the original question, USA is in a fundamental christian administration who will argue for a Jewish state as they believe in a prophecy that Jesus will only be resurrected when Israel exists so they will want that to take place. They have been put on that path & now changes in administration will not deter them from this course of supplying so many weapons to a country whose foe can only pack bombs on their person & use themselves as weapons in response.

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Originally Posted by fluid identity

I know that a lot of people are going to claim this is anti-semitic but I'm actually pro-semitic since I support the claim of Palestinian people (muslim & christian) to inhabit their land since they are from semite stock.
Before anyone accuses me of being anti-jewish, I believe in the right of Jewish people to inhabit Jerusalem & lands that belong rightfully those arabs (palestinians) that lived there for generations, or in Europe or in the US but they do not have a right to arbitrarily take the land & murder innocent people (of all creeds).

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The fallacy of your argument is that Israelis did not "arbitrarily" take the land. The original settlers were given the land. They were given mostly barren desert areas of then Palestine. The State of Israel was granted by a vote of the United Nations. Palestinians were not thrown out of Israel, but left on their own accord or were driven out when they took up arms against Israel.

And your comparing Zionist to the Taliban is so ridiculous. The government of Israel has never been the tyrannical, religious extremists that the Taliban is. Israel is actually one of the most democratic of governments.

Just one more thing to say: Mayer Amschel Bauer.

President Andrew Jackson, the only one of our presidents whose administration totally abolished the National Debt, condemned the international bankers as a "den of vipers" which he was determined to "rout out" of the fabric of American life. Jackson claimed that if only the American people understood how these vipers operated on the American scene "there would a revolution before morning."

BTW, has anyone here read the Protocals of the Learned Elders of Zion? I'm not pronouncing it as truth or fiction but, it really does describe our plight today. Coincidence?

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Originally Posted by magprob

BTW, has anyone here read the Protocals of the Learned Elders of Zion? I'm not pronouncing it as truth or fiction but, it really does describe our plight today. Coincidence?

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Is this

Anti-Semitic Myths: The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion: Introduction

What you refer to? And in case you think that this is ADL propaganda, there are many other references to this publication being a hoax.

Rebuttal to fluid identity,

I do think that U.S supports Israel for mainly three reasons;

1) is the guilt of western Christians for belated action ref massacre of jews
How about a supporting democracy among many unstable monarchies, who support, arm, and train terrorists recruited from misguided poor people.
2) the influence of the Jewish Lobby
The last I looked the monarchies had their own lobby.
3) the anti-islam sentiments of the USA ( where they believe everyone is equal but that they are more equal then everyone else especially barbaric muslims!)
There is no such thing as anti Islamic sentiment in the USA, the dispute is with terrorist who blow up people, places, and things which if you checked the facts is against the muslim way of life, and has been condemned by a vast majority of the muslim community in the USA.

Hello:

History is murky for some. So, I thought I might bring up some history that occurred as recently as two years ago. Possibly it can be remembered. However, to some it won't be.

Israel withdrew from occupied Gaza. They UNOCCUPIED IT! They just withdrew and returned it to the Palestinians to do with as THEY chose. Along the way, they destroyed their OWN settlements, and forced their OWN Jewish settlers off land that was promised to them.

What did the Palestinians do with Gaza? Did they build a state?? Nooo, they didn't. They are using it to launch rockets at Israeli citizens and build Hezbollah like fortifications along the border for their coming attack on Israel.

What should Israel do about that? Sit there?? Some of you Anti-Semites would say yes. But, they won't, nor should they. What?? You like Hamas??

excon

I'm not Palestinian or Israeli but if I come and take over your house and think I'm doing you a favor by vacating a room for you to live, what would you do?

One thing I would not do is kill the innocent. I'm not a jew, arab, palestinian, muslim or christian. Terrorist tactics cannot be tolerated, nor condoned. Maybe the palestinians need a government to negoiate in good faith on their behalf and not armed thugs who use terror as a tool to get what they want.

Hello fit:

See, that's the trouble with history. I understand your point, however. You think Israel took land and are only offering a pittance back.

Let's forget for a minute that I disagree with your scenario, but even if Israel was wrong for taking it in the first place, they DID give it back.

It wasn't enough was it? So, it's OK to send your children with bombs strapped on their bodies...

Let me ask you some history, fit. How did Israel get, or to use your terms, "take over" the occupied land to begin with? Let's see. They were attacked by the Arabs and they won the land. How do you think they got it?

Or are you talking about the land Israel sits on? Is that the land you want them to vacate?? Probably.

excon

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Originally Posted by fitnahpolice

I'm not Palestinian or Israeli but if I come and take over your house and think I'm doing you a favor by vacating a room for you to live, what would you do?

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As excon indicated, this statement is both one sided and not in keeping with historical fact. Israeli did NOT come in and take over someone's house.

The original Jewish settlers in British controlled Palestine were either given or purchased the land they settled on. The state of Israel was created by the United Nations.

Whatever lands that Israel gained after 1948 was due to them being attacked by the Arabs and winning the wars started by hostile countries. Had the Arabs won do you think they would have eventually given back land that they took? The Arab world has gone on record as stating they want to wipe Israel off the map of the world.

So I suggest you open your eyes a bit. I'm not saying that Israel hasn't made mistakes, committed questionable or unethical acts, etc. But, if you don't open your eyes to the whole story, then your opinions will be dismissed as biased.

Firstly, I'm not condoning the killing of innocent civilians. That is absolutely wrong. We agree both sides have made mistakes. But the cry of the hour is PEACE as has been for decades now!

Recently the Arabs have stretched their hand forward. Hamas, who had come into power via a majority, went into a collaboration with the other party... the Saudi proposal to return to pre-1948 borders... the Syrian initiative. But seems like Israel just does not want peace.

Gideon Levy - an Israeli journalist for Ha'aretz, a member of its editorial board and former spokesman for Shimon Peres - tells it all. And rightly so.

Israel doesn't want peace - Haaretz - Israel News

Gideon Levy: Israel Does Not Want Peace

Should the US roll back to it's 1776 borders ? Property ownership is contingent on your ability to defend it. Excon made the definitive point in this debate. Israel returned Gaza and it has since been used as a platform for attacks on Israel . If Israel rolled back to pre-1948 borders then you could kiss Israel goodby.

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Originally Posted by fitnahpolice

Firstly, I'm not condoning the killing of innocent civilians. That is absolutely wrong. We agree both sides have made mistakes. But the cry of the hour is PEACE as has been for decades now!

Recently the Arabs have stretched their hand forward. Hamas, who had come into power via a majority, went into a collaboration with the other party....the Saudi proposal to return to pre-1948 borders...the Syrian initiative. But seems like Israel just does not want peace.

Gideon Levy - an Israeli journalist for Ha'aretz, a member of its editorial board and former spokesman for Shimon Peres - tells it all. And rightly so.

Israel doesn't want peace - Haaretz - Israel News

Gideon Levy: Israel Does Not Want Peace

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You cite one voice. I'm sure others can be found to disagree. For example you cite a Saudi proposal to return to "pre-1948 borders". But pre-1948 means when Israel didn't exist! I've see some of the so-called peace initiatives offered by other countries. There was always one major thing lacking in them. The guarantee of Israel's security and sovreignty. Israel made peace with Egypt because they did provide those guarantees.

I will reiterate what excon pointed out. That Israel forced settlers in Gaza to give up their homes so the area could be returned. I notice Levy makes no mention of that.

But when you have a situation where you are surrounded by stated enemies, where you have been under attack consistently for almost 60 years, would you be expected to just roll over to peace proposals that do not guarantee your security?

You've already proven that you are biased and your viewpoint is narrow. You only seem to look for things to support those biased views. Israel has been asking for Peace from the day of the 1948 vote. After decades of attacks, terrorist bombings and other threats they are to just accept that now the arabs want peace? Hamas has been one of the most active perpetrators of terrorism. Syria has been training and supporting terrorists since 1948. Saudi Arabia, proposes that Israel return to where they were BEFORE they were granted statehood! Is is any wonder that that Israel is skeptical of these offers?

The only real concessions I have seen is Israel's give back of Gaza. Syria offers peace while it continues to funnel money and materials to Hezbollah. Hamas makes offers but can't (or won't) control its people and stop them from terrorist acts.

Sorry, but I can't fault Israel for taking a hard line about such peace offers.