Rayne,

Beneath some of your anger and obvious youth I can in some ways understand your point of view. I can see what you are trying to say. Perhaps sometimes it is the way you deliver it however that causes people to take it out of context.

Im not telling you how to express your opinion or what opinion to have. But perhaps if you have a concern that your opinion is coming across as hurtful and you don't want it to be, then you have to address and evaluate how you deliver it.

Remember that is hard for many to see your emotions through words on a screen. You have to be clear in describing exactly how you feel for people to really see it.

For the record, I am totally against the war in Iraq. I despise war as much as most people. I can't blame the troops though. But I can see how their involvement makes it hard for you to feel how some others may. But just remember that they are human beings with as big a heart as you have and they probably don't agree with it either. They are just doing their job, much like a paper processor at the Tax Office. I bet he doesn't agree with paying the amount of tax he does, but he still aids in collecting it. May be a bad analogy but you get my point.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Raynefreak

Jesushelper i thank you for your comment on not only my post, but one several other's as well. It's nice to know that my points and feelings are shared and that i am not the only ''brainwashed'' person in America. I'm glad that you shared your feelings. It made me realize that i'm not always wrong and that its ok to voice an opinion. I was sitting here picking at my words and doubting myself because of some of the hurtful comments i've been given by a few whom didn't even bother to post a reply to this topic. Which shows me their lack of concern for what they speak. If you've got something to say say it. Anyway, thankyou for your words as small as they are, they made my day a bit brighter. It's nice to know that someone is on your side. If we were all alone, what would happen to us? We'd go nuts, lol. A lot of people seem to disagree with some of my thoughts, however i'm sure there's someone out there, perhaps better with words then me who shares my veiws and can voice them better then me. Maybe then someone as small as me or them will be heard amougst the swarm of bee's.

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Hi Rayne,

I am glad you feel better and I hope I have not written anything to make you feel bad. We both feel very strongly about this and probably agree on more than we realize. Just so you know, Jesushelper is from Canada, not America. But I am glad his words gave you comfort. Rayne, I am proud of you for being 20 and having caring as much as you do. Honest.

That pisses me off, I can't believe some jerk spit on soldiers! It doesn't matter if you don't believe in the war, it's the soldier's choice if they want to join the military or not. Soldiers deserve nothing but respect for what they do, whether you want them to do it or not.

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Originally Posted by Allheart

Okay I'm back. Only because I see some comments being geared towards the troops. I respect that fact that you should be able to post just like me. But enough is enough.

Say what you want about our/my country, about my/our President - All of which, okay, I don't like it and not a little, but oh well, I have learned to accpet and embrace all different view points.

But to dare, to dare put this at the foot of my military sorry way over the line. Excuse me, most of these are kids 18 and 19. They joined the military for a variety of reasons and then the crap hit the fan and like HONERABLE men and women they answered the call.
How dare anyone dare to say one negative word about our troops while they sit their butts down in a nice cozy home, and our kids are over there risking their lives, loosing their lives, and limbs. How dare anyone spread such negativty when they need our love and support.

Do you EVER EVER EVER hear any military family on the news complaining ever? No. And they are the ones giving up the most. So when you are willing to sacrfice as much as they are, then you may have a leg to stand on, but not until then.

Okay I'm done. P'd off to the 10th degree, but done ranting.

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Hey Allheart,

Sorry to hear your disappointment. As stated I agree fully with what you are saying. No blame at all should be placed at the feet of the troops. Not at all.

I hope it wasn't my post that you felt was being geared towards the troops. Im not sure I follow!! If it was something in particular in someone's post would you care to share so it can be cleared up?

No Skell it wasn't yours and it wasn't in a post. Sorry Skell.

No need AH. I love the pride you display in your country and its people. It is very special and much like I am with my country. I don't agree with everything we do but I love it all the same!

For the record, I do care. Or else I wouldn't post in here. I probably care too much. I don't sit and think about polotics or watch the news or even think about the war. I know that I am a poor person, that I am not the brightest person and that I will probably never do anything earth changing. I'm not a motivated person and at time's lazy. I guess I just feel useless. I mean what is the point of life? In my opinion to do something good for your world and to make the next generation better. I wish I could be some great person or a strong women like Rose Parks or Harriet Tugmen-or whatever. But I'm not and it bloody well peeves me off. Sorry just had to say that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Raynefreak

For the record, i do care. Or else i wouldnt post in here. I probably care too much. I don't sit and think about polotics or watch the news or even think about the war. I know that i am a poor person, that i am not the brightest person and that i will probably never do anything earth changing. I'm not a motivated person and at time's lazy. I guess i just feel useless. I mean what is the point of life? In my opinion to do something good for your world and to make the next generation better. I wish i could be some great person or a strong women like Rose Parks or Harriet Tugmen-or whatever. But im not and it bloody well peeves me off. Sorry just had to say that.

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Rayne,

Now I will flat out disagree with you. This is why I find you so special, but I wish you could see it yourself. Rayne, at 20 my priority was where we all were going for the weekend and for that I should be ashamed. You are brilliant and you do make a difference a huge one. I do just adore you, hope you don't mind me saying that. You care and I now you care. Like you said otherwise you wouldn't even post. Be proud of the fact that you care. You do make a difference and will continue to do so. And hey, I bet when you are being lazy that is when you do your best thinking ;) .

Don't you dare ever refer to yourself as useless EVER. On that thought I do expect you to conform. ;)

You are one special girl. I just hope you soon realize it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Raynefreak

For the record, i do care. Or else i wouldnt post in here. I probably care too much. I don't sit and think about polotics or watch the news or even think about the war. I know that i am a poor person, that i am not the brightest person and that i will probably never do anything earth changing. I'm not a motivated person and at time's lazy. I guess i just feel useless. I mean what is the point of life? In my opinion to do something good for your world and to make the next generation better. I wish i could be some great person or a strong women like Rose Parks or Harriet Tugmen-or whatever. But im not and it bloody well peeves me off. Sorry just had to say that.

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You can be great and do something to change the world Rayne. But I assure you that you won't with an attitude like that.

So get up, get out and start kicking some ar$e! Do it respectfully but never be afriad to have a go. It only takes you to get through to one person something good and you have changed the world.

Your only as bright as the amount of light you let in!

Since I cannot leave you a rate answer, I'd like to know how you think I'm helping people. I just got in an agruement with my fiancé today because of what I think. I'm not loved by the masses. Sometime's I can sound like a heart'less #$@%&. So I don't feel up to giving my opinons anymore. No one agrees anyway. But I don't see how I'm helping anyone. I certainly didn't help the soldier who died. I don't think I could save any of the soldiers from their fates. I haven't invented anything useful, or cured any cancers. So what keeps people going who are like me? Small, somewhat weak and just don't know what to do. If anything, I think people should write a long letter as if to a friend you haven't seen in awhile and send it ot a solider. It could be the last thing they read before they... die. Or the first thing they read before doing something very important and living to tell about it.

Rayne, bringing comfort to some of those that you do when you respond right here at AMHD, can equate to a cure for cancer for them.

I haven't done any of those wonderful things either, but you can start small. Just by giving a smile to an older person in the street that you see. You have been gifted with great insight and intelligence, use it in a caring way. Don't worry if others agree with you, it's okay to disagree, its how we learn. Heck, most times, no one agrees with me. Hubby never agrees with my viewpoint, hardly ever. Thank goodness he loves me :). But when things come from your heart, they tend to make the most impact.

Now you are feeling sorry for yourself. Something we all do at times but never our proudest moments.

You know you helped that soldier and his family. To say you didn't is disrespectful to the kind words his wife offered you and the heartfelt thanks you received from his family. They read the letter at his funeral for goodness sake so to say it didn't help is silly.

When people don't agree with your opinion is not a reason to stop voicing it. It is more of a reason.

Most of th US never agreed with a word Cassius Clay said early on. But eventually Muhammad Ali was loved by the world. If your not sure what I'm talking about please look him up. He is a Champion for the human race. But like you, many disagreed with his thoughts on the war in Vietnam. But he changed the world by continuing to give them. Not giving up!!

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Originally Posted by Raynefreak

Personally, i am agaisnt the war. If people want to join the war, then im against them as well. Sure, if i see that a 18 year old girl or boy was killed i stop and think how pointless that young death was. How sad it is. But i also think that its there own fault in a way. For putting thereselves into that situation. In war there is no way to know if you will come out alive. I don't mourn for anyone, i think that its sad though. If i was asked to serve i'd say no. Why? Because its not my problem. I'm not going to kill inocent ppl. I don't believe in war. War is pitiful. Just b/c some nut job thinks we are a strong nation (which in reality were not) and thinks going to war and getting into Israles business is ok doesn't mean it is. If ppl wouldnt stand up to the governemt who will? There is something wrong with this country. Why join a war that you know is wrong? Why fight for nothing. Whatever. That kid in the war doesn't have the chance to get married and change the world. If they want to send people over send older people who had more of a life. When it comes down to it, i think this whole war is completely retarded. In my opinion, if Bush continues to do this he could end up in trouble with crazy's. We know how scary those people can be. I don't like Bush because i think his whole ''I <3 Jesus'' thing is completely fake. But i don't think he's the man for presisdent. I blame him for putting thoughts of war into young teens. I disagree with the war, soldiers fighting in this pointless, godless, nameless, and never-ending war. I wish the best for any of you, but i don't have to say i ''told you so''. I like Rosie she's got some things right. At the same time not everything she says is what i think. She's has the right to say what she thinks though its a free country and freedoom of speech. I'm American, what happened to our foundations? God fearing, honorable and loving people and nation? It died with Lincoln.

If you want to hear a song that will make you cry your eyes out and shake your head with pain listen to this song
YouTube - P!nk - Dear Mr. President Offical Video
Good luck to any of you soldiers, i don't know you but i know your honestly thinking your changing the world. Realize maybe your not maybe your all just pawns in a childish game.

Ohh and on this matter i speak my veiws, my fiance's, my family's and anyone else who agree's. So don't think im speaking for all America. Thank you.

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How can you sit there and say that when a soldier dies for our country, you don't mourn for them, you think it's their fault because they joined the army. And stop pretending like all teenagers are mindless zombies and we follow whatever propaganda says. You're only 21! Wow I guess 3 years of being an adult changed you completely. I agree with you, war is pointless and our president is a complete idiot, but you can't sit there and blame the people that have to do his dirty work. You piss me off so much I don't know what to say to you cause what you believe is heartless.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Raynefreak

For the record, i do care. Or else i wouldnt post in here. I probably care too much. I don't sit and think about polotics or watch the news or even think about the war. I know that i am a poor person, that i am not the brightest person and that i will probably never do anything earth changing. I'm not a motivated person and at time's lazy. I guess i just feel useless. I mean what is the point of life? In my opinion to do something good for your world and to make the next generation better. I wish i could be some great person or a strong women like Rose Parks or Harriet Tugmen-or whatever. But im not and it bloody well peeves me off. Sorry just had to say that.

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You contradict everything you say! For the record... I do care, but I don't mourn troops when they die. You can be whatever you want to be, if you want to do something good then get off your a$$ and do it. The point of life is love.

Remind me again, who is doing the car bombs and killing innocent civilians?

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Originally Posted by wiggitywackiraq

here's the thing...im a sergeant in the army, and i've been hearing about this rosie o'donell thing, and i ask this: are people in america behind the average soldier, (the normal doesn't torture people, etc) or are they against the soldier because they are against the war (the vietnam mentality)? the reason i ask is because rosie said all this stuff, calling us terrorists and all, there has been a lot of conversation regarding whether or not people feel that way. two of my battle buddies were spit on in the dallas airport when they went on leave from the deployment, simply for being in uniform and that guy apparently not agreeing with the war.....i am eager to hear your thoughts. :confused:

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Whoa! You need to stop that. That war is about oil, and distraction. Now your just being rude. It takes a lot of courage to be honest to soldiers that have been brain washed. I am in Canada and your government elect are now using my corrupt government . It's like religion, easy to argue but the blind just don't want to see. So many of my bud's are there now, and half know what it's all about. The other half know and don't care, the pay is so good. You wanted straight answers... Well here. I think that anyone who enlisted since at least 2003 is a dumb-. Please private message me for a debate, I understand that what I have said needs more foundation for some of you to see where these opinions are from. But over all anyone who voted for bush should have enlisted. I don't agree with spitting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Allheart

Hi Rayne,

I am glad you feel better and I hope I have not written anything to make you feel bad. We both feel very strongly about this and probably agree on more than we realize. Just so you know, Jesushelper is from Canada, not America. But I am glad his words gave you comfort. Rayne, I am proud of you for being 20 and having caring as much as you do. Honest.

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I hope that you all feel it is okay for me to pipe in on this discussion even though I am from canada, but what goes on in america. Our next door neighbour effects us here in Canada, effects what happens around the world. So it is important for all of us to speak up and say what we feel. Also all my fathers side of the family are americans and currently live in the states.
I believe Rayne has had some very good points and they were taken out of context by a few people, very nasty comments were made towards Rayne which was uncalled for and I am not going to sit here and let that happen.

Lets just say the majority of people know that the American government went into iraq with no evidence. Iraq did not attack america. Certain terrist groups did but that does not make the right for a president to call war on a whole country. These men and women who are dying. Are dying in vain. That is a fact. I clearly have said this before I blame the American government.

Also think about this which Rayne made a very good point. These men and women have a choice to serve in the army or not. They have a choice to fight in a war they believe in or not. It is all about choice and to say they do not have a choice in this is completely wrong. So that means that they are responsible as well as the government.

Another thing I would add, I think that majority of Americans was mislead, including soldiers on the war. Now there finding out that the leader of their country is a liar and much more that I would like to say but now people are waking up from a deep sleep it seems and instead of blindly following a leader, they are actually questioning his leadership and know that they lead them down the wrong path. Question is, is it too late to fix the damage that already has been done? To americans and around the world because of this.

Joe

There is one thing I have to say to the soldier. If you went in and you really believed in the cause, If you do your job and you break no human ethic codes {besides being there} then that's what you got to do... But your job would really be to save people. I couldn't do it cause I would be fighting my trigger happy com-padres all the time. I have a few friends that were in Bosnia too, They say stuff goes on in these places that would blow your mind in reference to massacres. But I do love team America.

Maybe I'm dumb. But I do believe in our cause. I don't agree how we got there though. I believe in helping those that cannot help themselves. I not only believe this, but I feel that it is a duty of MINE because of how fortunate I am.

Yes, I hand out change to as many people as I can on the corners in Denver, and no, I don't care what they buy with it.

A lot of soldiers were enlisted way before this thing started, for various reason, education etc... I don't think there are many people in this country that side with Mr. Bush, but what can you do? What if instead of the world trade center being bombed on 9-11 it was Canada being attacked? Would you feel different? There were a lot of p I s s e d off people in this country that wanted revenge , many people enlisted, because they were trying to help, now they are stuck, they may not believe in this war but someone has to finish this job, Why can't you people just support them? If you don't agree with the way this war is being lead, why not instead of sitting in front of your computer, stand up and do something?

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Originally Posted by Greg Quinn

Whoa!! You need to stop that. That war is about oil, and distraction. Now your just being rude. It takes a lot of courage to be honest to soldiers that have been brain washed. I am in Canada and your government elect are now using my corrupt government . It's like religion, easy to argue but the blind just don't want to see. So many of my bud's are there now, and half know what it's all about. The other half know and don't care, the pay is so good. You wanted straight answers...Well here. I think that anyone who enlisted since at least 2003 is a dumb-. Please private message me for a debate, I understand that what I have said needs more foundation for some of you to see where these opinions are from. But over all anyone who voted for bush should have enlisted. I don't agree with spitting.

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How is asking a question, being rude? Sorry, you lost me there.

I thought the same thing, must be a Canadian thing?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jesushelper76

I hope that you all feel it is okay for me to pipe in on this discussion even though I am from canada, but what goes on in america. Our next door neighbour effects us here in Canada, effects what happens around the world. So it is important for all of us to speak up and say what we feel. Also all my fathers side of the family are americans and currently live in the states.
I believe Rayne has had some very good points and they were taken out of context by a few people, very nasty comments were made towards Rayne which was uncalled for and I am not going to sit here and let that happen.

Lets just say the majority of people know that the American governement went into iraq with no evidence. Iraq did not attack america. Certain terrist groups did but that does not make the right for a president to call war on a whole country. These men and women who are dying. Are dying in vain. That is a fact. I clearly have said this before I blame the American government.

Also think about this which Rayne made a very good point. These men and women have a choice to serve in the army or not. They have a choice to fight in a war they believe in or not. It is all about choice and to say they do not have a choice in this is completely wrong. So that means that they are responsible as well as the government.

Another thing I would add, I think that majority of Americans was mislead, including soldiers on the war. Now there finding out that the leader of their country is a liar and much more that I would like to say but now people are waking up from a deep sleep it seems and instead of blindly following a leader, they are actually questioning his leadership and know that they lead them down the wrong path. Question is, is it too late to fix the damage that already has been done? To americans and around the world because of this.

Joe

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Joe, of course it is okay. I just wanted Rayne to be sure it was clear where you were from, that's all.

Again, our young men and women are honerable. They signed up for a job and they are standing up and doing it. Did someone on this thread infer they are now to be considered stupid? I know it wasn't you Joe. Not sure who it was and frankly it doesn't matter.

I will say this, I believe Rayne's comments come from her sincere compassion and she is entitled to them, 100%.

Personally, and I of course just speak for me, am so damn proud of our fine young men and women, and nothing, no one, not one word written or spoken twisted to make them appear other then what they truly are and that is HONERABLE young men and women. It sickens me that anyone would dare to make them other than that.

Perhaps I am amongst those that are stupid to allow myself to get in a so called debate with some who are using this war as a platform to disquise their deep seeded contempt for our beautiful country.

Get them...

You could join the military, that would make you a difference maker.

Greg, the onspiracy theorist here... but the first reply was right, some are speculation, but mostly right. There are literally 50 points of view fighting each other here. Fighting ech other, us, themselves... very weird time here.

What's your MOS dude?

Nice... im just grateful to actually hear what people think on this, and their opinions... im very enlightened, and humbled

Oh no, not this guy... well I'm appreciative of your opinions, and I'm going to read them later I think

Isn't she a sweetheart? I think so.

Rockerchick you rock... good thoughts!!

The following qoutes are taken from Jesushelper76's post. (I'm sorry I called you American, I forgot you were from Canada-my bad)

"I believe Rayne has had some very good points and they were taken out of context by a few people, very nasty comments were made towards Rayne which was uncalled for and I am not going to sit here and let that happen."

Yes I agree, my words were perhaps not entirely well written, but for the most part I thought I wrote what I felt. However, what was meant and what was taken from my words are completely different. I don't recall ever saying that soldiers are straight up murderers. I said killing innocents are wrong, but if your leader says to kill then you must. Therefore its not murder. Innocents are killed in war at some point, weither tried or not. Fact is fact. I do think so of the comments as I've said before were rude and some of the people who made them didn't even bother to post about it and what they think so they have no presidence here.

"These men and women who are dying. Are dying in vain. That is a fact. I clearly have said this before I blame the American government."

I agree, and this is one of the things I was trying to get across with my posts. The war is at this point never-ending. Sending people over is sending them to their likely deaths. So it is not my job to pity them or to cry for them. I'm sorry but, I have common sense to know what has a pourpose and what does not. I wouldn't go to war simply because I have a life here. Why would I want to possibly die for a lost cause? Maybe just maybe if I had no life (not speaking for others) and it was a good cause I would. But another reason is I don't believe in war. There are other options. We just like war, plain and simple.

"These men and women have a choice to serve in the army or not. They have a choice to fight in a war they believe in or not. It is all about choice and to say they do not have a choice in this is completely wrong. So that means that they are responsible as well as the government."

Once again I completely agree. You have a choice. Just like that man has a choice to pull the trigger. If you want pity or a pat on the back for your efforts, no offense but it woln't be from me. All you or anyone will get is a good luck. You choose to join the war, maybe for the wrong reasons, maybe for the right ones. Doesn't really matter point is its going to get you no where when the government still sends more over and doesn't bother to put a stop to the war. If you want to change something, change the government. That is were all the problems lie. So in conclusion, aid-ing the war IS aid-ing the government and if you aid the government you probably agree with their laws and teaching and whatever. Personally, I'm not going to aid any thing that I don't abide.

Here is an interesting article breaking down the death rates of troops in Iraq.

Samuel H. Preston and Emily Buzzell - Service in Iraq: Just How Risky? - washingtonpost.com

You may be in more of a danger in some parts of the U.S. compared with Iraq.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wiggitywackiraq

here's the thing...im a sergeant in the army, and i've been hearing about this rosie o'donell thing, and i ask this: are people in america behind the average soldier, (the normal doesn't torture people, etc) or are they against the soldier because they are against the war (the vietnam mentality)? the reason i ask is because rosie said all this stuff, calling us terrorists and all, there has been a lot of conversation regarding whether or not people feel that way. two of my battle buddies were spit on in the dallas airport when they went on leave from the deployment, simply for being in uniform and that guy apparently not agreeing with the war.....i am eager to hear your thoughts. :confused:

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I as an American Woman are very proud that we have men and women who are willing to die for our country and I thank you. Thank you and people alike you for protecting the freedomns that we enjoy in America. Thank you for keeping us safe and for being on guard and in action when we are threathened. I tell my 13 year old daughter you better thank God that you are an American female. As for the idiots that spit on the soldiers , they should be prosecuted, and Rosie will be leaving the show ( none too soon). Be safe and thanks once again

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Originally Posted by bushg

As for the idiots that spit on the soliders , they should be prosecuted.

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It's only hearsay so it may not have happened at all. If the Westboro Baptist Church has not been prosecuted then don't hold your breath for alleged spitters.

Don't listen to that wack job loony Rosie. She does not speak for the American people . She is in fact a poor representative of the opposition .

It is fair to oppose the war ;I don't ;but she is so over the top that she does not reflect the opposition position well at all. Her calling the troops terrorists was so over the top moonbattery that when she was challenged on the premise she imploded and picked a fight with a co-host on "THE VIEW " which ultimately led to her leaving the show this week.

Whether one agrees with the premise of our going to war ,the issue now is what kind of Iraq do we leave if we were to "re-deploy " now .

This was my posting on another site over the weekend :

American forces freed 42 kidnapped Iraqis — some of whom had been hung from ceilings and tortured for months — in a raid Sunday on an al-Qaida hideout north of Baghdad, the U.S. military said.

Military officials said the operation, launched on tips from residents, showed that Iraqis in the turbulent Diyala province were turning against Sunni insurgents and beginning to trust U.S. troops.

"The people in Diyala are speaking up against al-Qaida," said Maj. Gen. William Caldwell, the top U.S. military spokesman in Iraq. (U.S. frees 42 Iraqi captives in raid | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle )


This is indicative of what the new Iraq would look like if we were to leave prematurely... very similar to the Iraq we liberated. What is the utility of such slaughter houses ? Certainly they are not for information gathering . Why did Uday Hussein put his rivals into woodchippers? What did he gain beyond pure sadistic pleasure that the terror and fear produced ? This to him and I suspect to the al-Qaeda scum is nothing more than a form of recreation .

We know by the capture of the illustrated torture manual (one of the most under-reported stories in this war )that this is what they have in mind as the future Iraq. This was not done to get information. This was done for the same reason Saddam Hussein and his thugs did it: To intimidate the civilian population.

What we fight is a cult of evil and it doesn't matter if it's leaders names are Hussein or bin Laden. They are all heads of the same hydra.

Happy Memorial Day . We have tasked our brave soldiers with a mission worthy of the fight by the 'Greatest Generation'.The liberation of a small torture cell is small compared to the liberation of the Nazi camps ;but the spirit is the same. Then we fought evil because we recognized the imperitive. Today too many of us see it as optional.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bushg

I as an American Woman are very proud that we have men and women who are willing to die for our country and I thank you. Thank you and people alike you for protecting the freedomns that we enjoy in America. Thank you for keeping us safe and for being on guard and in action when we are threathened. I tell my 13 year old daughter you better thank God that you are an American female. As for the idiots that spit on the soliders , they should be prosecuted, and Rosie will be leaving the show ( none too soon). Be safe and thanks once again

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Nice post and very sincere. But I want to pose the question again.

How is this war in Iraq about protecting you? It has never been about defense. Afghanistan maybe was about protection, but Iraq? No way! It was an invasion to oust Hussein and take control of their country. Not defend our countries (the Coalition - US, Britain, Australia etc).

The War in iraq has been a mistake from the beginning. Most will agree on that other than George W and his lap dogs Blair, Howard et al.

I hardly know a person down under here that supported going into Iraq, yet we have a Prime Minister who ignored that and sent us in anyway. Now he is about to lose our Election here in November in a landslide on the back of this. It will be an overwhelming victory for the Opposition party and we will have a change of Government. Yet it is too late. We are in Iraq and there is no way out. Pulling out troops now is inconceivable. We have been committed to a war that seemingly has no end.

It is a horrible mess but it is not the soldiers fault. If you ask me our leaders have so much blood on their hands that the stain will never wash off with many!!

As always there are no winners in war. And this is a perfect example if this.

[QUOTE=bushg]who are willing to die for our country and I thank you. Thank you and people alike you for protecting the freedomns that we enjoy in America.

HOG-WASH!

That is so... must calm down. They are dying for oil and that's it. LOOK FOR THE ADGENDAS PEOPLE!! It's your Country, investigate! What freedoms in America were in jeopardy? The fuel? It's not free, it's people like you who let this get so far out of hand. How on earth did you get your computer hooked up? I honestly wish you didn't. And that girl that is on that show THE VIEW... She is a die hard democrat. And an attention seeker, she knew that O'Donnell was leaving soon and had to get her little bra tied in a knot. Afghanistan was a foot in a door and nothing more. You put so much value into your freedoms learn how to spell it.
Quote:
Bill Maher: [to Richard Perle] I think you guys might have been right about the big picture, and I'm not above saying, you know what, maybe I was wrong. Okay. But on the other half of it, why the incompetence? Why was this war conducted so badly from the beginning? And you have to admit that cost lives. And my theory is because Republicans are sentimentalists. Because you guys have such rose-colored glasses about America that you thought as soon as we showed up in Iraq, they'd be going, 'Freedom! Americans!' And that's why we didn't need armor on the tanks because they'd be giving us flowers and chocolates and nylons.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Auttajasi

Here is an interesting article breaking down the death rates of troops in Iraq.

Samuel H. Preston and Emily Buzzell - Service in Iraq: Just How Risky? - washingtonpost.com

You may be in more of a danger in some parts of the U.S. compared with Iraq.

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GOOD POINT to bring up.

Whether I agree with the war or not those poor people are better off with out insane ruling them... and yes his insanity would have eventually come to America.