excon:
Disagree! Those countries you site were conquerors. We are and have been liberators.
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excon:
Disagree! Those countries you site were conquerors. We are and have been liberators.
Actually it isn't that much fun for us since some of your violent criminals come and hide out here. It is fun when we travel overseas and, when asked if we are american or canadian, we reply gladly "Canadian" and their smiles light up their faces.Quote:
Originally Posted by John1865
Really? I don't think so.Quote:
Originally Posted by John1865
I think a lot of aussies would love to hear how the yanks 'freed' them.Quote:
Originally Posted by John1865
That's the arrogance we all know and love! Being in uniform surrounded by your army buddies and weapons will indeed give you a different response than backpacking through Europe with the US flag on your back.Quote:
Originally Posted by John1865
Hello again, john:Quote:
Originally Posted by John1865
Tell that to the Iraqi's, the Vietnamese, the Somoli's, the Kurds, the Cubans, and on and on...
That is exactly the problem with you Bushies. You don't quite understand English. What you call liberation, is really occupation. What you call pre-emptive invasion, IS really conquering a nation. What you call winning is, in the real world, losing.
excon
History lesson:
Let's analyze. British forces in Hong Kong surrendered to the Japanese on Dec 24, 1941. The United States won the war with a Japanese surrender September 1945. Britain took back Hong Kong following the Japanese surrender.
You wouldn't admit the United States was the catalysis for Hong Kong being free?
Most historians agree, American victories at the battle of the Coral Sea and Midway prevented or should I say thwarted Japanese plans to invade Australia.
Obviously, Australian and British Navy's helped. But it was only the United States naval power in the pacific that directly prevented an attack by the Japanese on Australia and resulted in the surrender of Japan.
I would also like to dispute what Jesushelper76 wrote as follows:
The war of 1812 the Americans lost. Thank Goodness or Canada would not be the place it is now.
The United States won the war of 1812 with a British surrender following the battle of New Orleans: Jackson decisively defeated the British at the Battle of New Orleans on January 8, 1815 with over 2000 British casualties and fewer than 100 American losses. It was hailed as a great victory.
Hi NeedKarma,Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
I am actually and honestly asking these questions to learn. I really don't understand your above statement. How is John being arrogant when he was just relaying how he was being treated while in uniform. How is that being arrogant? Also, are you inferring that we would be treated in a negative manner, if we were backpacking through Europe, solely because we are American?
NK, you mean to tell me we are that hated, that when they discover you are Canadian, you are treated better than if you were American?? Again, asking to acquire knowledge.
John, - I take it you were in the military. Thank you so very much! John, I do believe we are a great country, but it does put one off to say we are the greatest. I believe we are a great Country, one of many great countries. Would you not agree with that?
If I don't belong on this thread, please, just let me know, I will not take it personal. I am trying to learn and sadly there seems to be such hostility from those I would have never anticpated it from. Lastly, if I am correct, John, served this great country, and as far as I am concerned, I not only trust and value his perspective, I respect it and would like others, who may not agree with him, to at least respect him. I would not say we were the greatest country though. I do believe we are one of many.
I do embrace and respect the difference in other countries and cultures. I find it so dishearting that others can not do the same for us.
You do not know your history bud. Nice try but you need to go back to school and learn your history. You think you won everything, when you have not. You are an example american that most people around the world would love to see on their soil so they can teach you a true lesson that you would not forget. Knock you down a few britches and knock that huge chip and arrogance and pompous attitude off your shoulders. You are lucky you were not killed. I dare you to go to many countries telling them your American and you will be a prisoner, and rightfully so for causing so much uproar, death and mayhem. I am holding you responsible for all the deaths around the world. You are a murderer, you are a arse hole and you are exactly like Bush. You are delusional and you need some real help.
As far as the states being successful in that war your wrong. How do you call not being able to invade canada as successful. That was the point of the war for america. America declared war because they wanted to take over land and occupy. They were unsuccessful.
I have obviously stepped into a thread I should have never have entered. This is, admittedly way above my level.
I will not wait to ask to leave, I will leave on my own, because I am just not understanding.
Allheart
Allheart, Please do not feel that way. If you do not understand, why not just ask? I hope you read my message. Please do not take me the wrong way, I tried to explain it. Hope you get back to me.
Joe,
I will say in public, what I tell you in private. I just adore you and you are one of the kindess most caring and loving individuals I have ever had the pleasure to meet and I proudly call you my friend.
I do just get all twisted up with subjects such as this. I am not deep in knowledge as all of you are, but I am deep in love for my country, my military and those countries that have stood by us as our friends.
You know that all of this dislike or shall I say hatred for Americans is new to me, and hard to digest.
But I send you a big hug anyway {... } Hope you are feeling better.
I admire, respect and adore the love you have for your country.
Allheart,
I did not mean to upset you and it hurts my heart to think that that is what I did to you because I do not mean this personally towards you or anybody else. It is just an attitude that John has that we Canadians do not like that much. It is not so much a hatred towards americans but a dislike for arrogance. We tend to be more humble and peaceful and we do not like it when somebody, especially American John come out and say that he and his government has every right to invade and fight and get involved in any war they want. Then to top it off say they won wars they never did. Americans tried to invade canada for land in 1812 and they lost. If they did not lose, then Canada would be part of the states right now, but we are not.
So know that I love you as a Friend, and it hurts my heart to see you react this way, but I am trying to share with you why I and others might feel the way we do. It is not towards you but towards Johns attitude that American has the right to invade any country and start strife in any Country they feel like it, that makes me angry.
Joe
In response to Jesushelper76:
I thought this site was for quality debate, why do you have to get personal. Did I attack you personally? Seems to me you woke up on the wrong side of the rock. It has become fairly obvious to me, you only want to hear from folks with your opinion... that's a fair and balanced debate.
I have been to many countries out of uniform, and lived in several. I have always been respectful to all folks while in their country, and have never had any problems with folks' attitude towards the United States. In fact, most folks thank us for all the good we do around the world.
Unfortunately, you have taken this debate to an unhealthy level. You are holding me responsible for all the deaths around the world. I'm falling over laughing!!
The war of 1812 was clearly an American victory. I don't know what history books you have read. The war was fought against the British. Trade was the real issue. Yes, Canada was a minor issue, a mere foot note in history!!
It is not personal. You john are the one that said that you and america has every right to bring your arms in any country, to start and interfere in any countries war. How you are superiour to every other country, how you are the best country, how you are the biggest power and have every right to fight a war in any country you want.
As far as 1812 being an american success, Nope. If it was we would be calling parts of Canada, America. The united states was unsuccessful in advancing on Canadian soil. So no you did not win the war.
At the time Canada was a British territory so to say that Canada was a minor issue your wrong there too.
I am saying your war like attitude. Just like Bush is what got your country in the mess it is in now. If you did not go around to all the different countries acting like King _____, then you would not have the attacks on american soil you have had.
This is a very healthy debate. Whether you like it or not is not really a concern for me. It is not personal at all. It is your attitude, it is your thoughts that it is your countries right to invade and bring up arms on any country that kills people, so yes you are responsible just like Bush is responsible for all the deaths on American soil of his own people and Americans abroad, and innocent people from all the other countries you decided to go to war with.
Joe
Hi John,
How long did you serve? I am so glad to hear that as an American you were met with positive feedback. Hurts me to my heart, as well as confuses me to know otherwise.
Joe,
My good friend.
I do not believe we go around the world acting like King anything. To me, we provide aide and safety to those who are in desperate need of it.
There is no way, shape or form, that any American is responsible for the lives lost on the USS Cole, and 9/11. Those actions, were, to me, just shear unbased hatered.
I am letting you know that is the perception that many people have about the american government. That many different nationalities were lost in 9/11 and I do believe if The american government was not so trigger happy in other peoples wars that hatred would not be there and there would have been no attack on american soil, but that is just my opinion.
I told myself to stay out of this thread after my first couple of post.
But I have to make a couple of points and then I will try and stay out of it.
John 1865 we are nowhere near the top of the food chain.
We are no where near where we need to be military wise. We have so many open holes in this country and with all or military else where we are open to an attack anytime.
Correct me if I am wrong but the war of 1812 was over before the battle of new orleans was fought.
I will go back to one thing I have said before. We are right in some of are decsicions but we need to be willing to admit when are thinking is wrong.
Iran has been a problem and will continur to be a problem.
How ever we do not need to jump into it blind we need a good stratgy before we go in there.
We also need the support of a lot more countries then we did before we entered Iraq.
If you look back we did not have the full support of the UN and we really needed it rather then try and go it alone.
We are streached to thin to put up too much of an offense If the untied states is attacked.
I agree with all those saying that America needs to stay out of other countries affairs. I for one am one American who is tired of paying over half of what he makes to give food, health care, protection and other aid to countries and people all around this planet who don't seem to give a damn or ever want to pay us back, or worse yet never want to do anything for themselves or set up real governments. For the love of God, when we went to war in Afghanistan we actually had to drop food and water to the citizens, much which was taken by the Taliban militias. For love of all that is PC, I would love to know what other country would fight a war like this? And then of course you had the New York Times claiming that wasn't enough and immediately calling for us to pull out!
So here's my idea that will never work in the real world. But it's this, if the rest of the world supposedly hates us like CNN and the NYT keep repeating how about we just cut off all aid everywhere! That way my fellow Americans can receive it or my personal choice, my taxes decrease significantly. The world wins and we win.
Wow, Chuff. I have to say well said.
My thought as well is if your unable to take care of your own, how can you expect take care care of anybody else elsewhere. Well that is what has been happening.
I say that is the best solution ever thought of. Stop spending billions of dollars in wars that have nothing to do with your country. Stop aid and let them fend for themselves. They will eventually become a better people because of it and Americans, and as well as Canadians will prosper and be able to take care of its people in a better way.
Joe
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuff
Sorry Chuff, had to spread it... grrrr
With you 100%. Sure would be nice if those so filled with hatred for us, would be kind enough to express that and decline taking our aid. Seems only right. Either you hate us or you don't. Make up your mind. Sure boils my blood. Would have much rather seen that same aid go to those Americans in New Orleans. Now that would have been money well spent !
The purpose of foreign aid is to gain political leverage.
What did we gain by this war in Iraq? Let's see oil, more debt for the US citizens, more of a prsentense in the Middle East, where we are not welcome, more of nothing that help the people in this country.
When will the government start thinking about the people in the US who is paying for this needlees war.
There are people in this country who have nothing also, homeless, children who wonder were the next meal is coming from.
What ever happen to the US that are forefathers started, to help thy fellow man. It seem the only people in the US who still have the values needed to be free and prosper here arethe Amish, true family values, and always help the friends and family.
The government most start thinging about the people not what is happening around the world. We cannot be the worlds police force anymore.
That;s my opinion.
Following retiring from the military more than 4-years ago, I managed a large trucking company -- home delivery, customer service, and warehouse - driver and helper in the truck. No other qualifications for the helper other than to show up on time and work. My recruiting efforts were primarily to the less advantaged folks; even homeless.
Let me tell you it was extremely difficult to find folks that wanted to work. Homelessness is a choice, as all of us have choices in a democracy vice socialism. Now I'm not saying there aren’t people out there needing help, but there are plenty of jobs for these folks if they want to work.
Our country has plenty of money to fight Iraq and Iran without sacrificing our standard of living. We must take the battle to the enemy, regardless of what other countries think. It is delusional to think there will ever be peace; when has the world ever had true peace? The answer is it never has!
I advocate a first strike on Iran now while we have surprise and troops positioned. This will minimize our casualties. I don't think we should occupy Iran, just remove its government, destroy its military capability, WMD etc, and then leave. Believe me, there are already plans developed to do just this. Will Bush pull the trigger? I hope so...
Maybe not your personal standard of living today but I can assure you that your kids and grandkids and their children will pay. You got to pay the piper sometime. Any irresponsible president can run up the country's debt when they have no concern for the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by John1865
Of course it is. That is my point. It is popular for the cnn and the New York times with there agendas to find the couple people that hate America elsewhere or an celebrity here and say that because people hate us it must somehow be our fault. So instead of trying to be the world police for the UN then get nothing in return, I say why not just pull out of the UN and give me my money back. Then in the future when another country gets attacked and they call us we can just say "well we tried to be the good guys but you didn't want us so I guess you have to suffer on your own now."Quote:
Originally Posted by Starman
Hello again, John:Quote:
Originally Posted by John1865
Actually, we don't. We do have credit, though, and that's how Bush has been financing the war. Since he drove up, the surplus he was left with has turned into the biggest deficit the country has ever had. Bush just asked for another quarter of a trillion $$ for both wars.
Your children and your grandchildren are stuck with this debt.
Uhhh, by the way. Who do you think is buying up our debt with all the dollars we spend with them? It's your favorite people, the Chinese. I repeat, Bush is selling us down the river.
excon
Nope, most of the time it is not. The majority of the homless people on the streets today are because of mental illness and cuts that our government has made within the medical field. Homelessness is rarely a choice anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by John1865
OUr government has made cuts in the medical community so that the "homeless" person does not have access to proper psychiatric care and shelter.
Not to go back a page or 2, but I brought out my history book that plainly states that American's declared war on Britain in The War of 1812. Although we did invade Canada through Detroit. America soon had to retreat back to Detroit and in August surrendered the fort there. Other invasion efforts also failed. However, the Americans did sign a peace treaty with Britain several weeks before the Battle of New Orleans.
To quote my text:
"The War of 1812, a war that was settled finally in 1814 on terms at least mildly favorable to the United States."
So, in fact it seems that the war was not with Canada, but with the British. The war was neither won nor lost, but settled.
Now, since I don't know anything more about Needless Wars unless they are in one of my texts :o, I will graciously bow out.
What was the War called when George Bush Sr. was president ?Quote:
Originally Posted by truthtrumpsall
There’s nothing keeping you here. If you feel that that life in America is so unjust, you are free to leave.Quote:
I am so ashamed to be an American, to be living in this country
Actually when Bush addressed the UN in September 2002, he outlined a whole bunch of reasons that Iraq was a danger.Quote:
Regardless of what your political situation in, there is one very important fact no one can deny, Pres. Bush said we went into Iraq because there were weapons of mass destruction.
1)Non-compliance with 17sepparate UNSC resolutions.
2)Attempted development of WMDs.
3)Refusal to prove the disarmament of existing WMDs.
4)Repression of the Iraqi people.
5)Violations of human rights
6)Support for international terrorism, including sheltering of international terrorists, establishment of terrorist training camps, and financial support of terrorism.
7)Refusal to account for Gulf War POWs and MIAs.
8)Refusal to return stolen Kuwaiti property, primarily military equipment.
9)Efforts to circumvent economic sanctions and impede the oil-for-food program
So while it is true that President Bush mentioned Saddam developing WMDs as one of his reasons, it was NOT the only reason.
If Bush made a “mistake” then so did the rest of the world. The entire UN membership was in agreement that Saddam was in violation of WMD-related resolutions. Hans Blix reported as much to the UN on a number of occasions. Even the French, Germans and Russians, who were against the war, agreed with the intelligence reports about Saddam having WMDs.Quote:
One HAS to know the facts and there were ways for out Pres. To know the facts, but he obviously didn't dig that deep.
Actually, the international community did. Every time some third world fleabag of a country has domestic unrest, they call the USA. Genocide in Darfur? Call the USA. War in Bosnia? America will handle it. China is rattling its sabre again? Get the President to take care of it. We are the world's police force because the world made us their police force.Quote:
Why does America go running around telling other Diplomats what they can and can't do, what they can and can't have? Who made us the higher power?
They didn’t change to our system. They created their own parliamentary system that doesn’t even resemble our system. It’s closer to the British system. And it was the IRAQI PEOPLE who created that system. 80% of eligible people in the country voted for this system, which leads me to believe that they did indeed “ask to change their current system”.Quote:
Ok, well, did this country ask to change their current system to one that we model today?
Are you saying it isn’t a gift? Are you saying that they were better off under Saddam Hussein’s terror regime?Quote:
Why do we think that we had the right to go in there and change their lives COMPLETELY because Pres. Bush thinks it a good thing to give them this so called "gift".
Sorry to have to inform you of this, truth, but there is such a thing as good and evil. The dictatorship of Saddam Hussein was not just another ‘lifestyle choice”. It was evil. And democracy is good. To say that democracy isn’t a “gift” is to say that all systems are basically the same, which is a form of moral equivalence. You have had your head filled with the idea that all choices are morally equal, and there is nothing better or worse about any system as compared to any other.
How about the fact that we have managed to do so for the past 70 years. How about the fact that President Ahmadinejad of Iran has actually threatened to USE THOSE NUCLEAR WEAPONS AGAINST HIS ENEMIES. That is the difference between us and them. We don’t use our nukes. Iran will.Quote:
We go telling Iran they can not have a nuclear plant, but we are allowed to manufacture nuclear weapons. What makes us think that we know how to keep dangerous or deadly things under proper control?
Not smarter. Just more moral. And yes, I am making a value judgment.Quote:
Seems the America that has been created appears to think that we are smart than everyone else.
Yes, there has been a shift in their economy… they have gone from 60% unemployment to 25% unemployment in 4 years, average salaries are up, more jobs are being created, and energy production is up. GDP of the country has risen steadily over the past several years. Exactly which part of this do you object to?Quote:
And that, obviously is not true, for many reasons. Interesting how Rices and Bush keep saying that the Iraqis have to get their military together so that they can take control and our troops can leave. Funny how we bring this amazing shift in on their economy, in their politics and their military.
Yes, there have been changes in their political system… the Iraqi people have elected their own government, and they chose to make it a parliamentary democracy with a constitution that spells out the responsibilities of the government. All factions of Iraqi society are represented in the government in accordance to their share of the population and the vote. Exactly which part of this do you object to?
Yes, there have been changes in their military. The Iraqi military has received training up to US standards, which are some of the highest standards of any military in the world. Their officers are now trained to lead soldiers, something that was lacking in the Iraqi military under Saddam. The soldiers themselves are of a higher caliber. They are better equipped than they were under Saddam. And they are more dedicated than they were under Saddam. Exactly which part of this do you object to?
Really? So if we are not the cause of the violence, why should we leave? Things are no worse off than before we got there, according to your argument. And if we are the cause of the violence and things are worse since we got there, then we dare not leave until the problem has been fixed, since we are responsible for having caused it. So why pull out?Quote:
There was violence in Iraq WAY before we got there. If we pull our troops out now there won't be an increase in violence.
Maybe that’s because we haven’t actually tried the FIRST plan yet… actually fighting the terrorists… hunting them down and killing them without regard to ‘rules of engagement’ that the enemy doesn’t abide by or political correctness that the enemy is not concerned with. If we actually FOUGHT the terrorists instead of trying to play the “hearts-and-minds” game, the situation in Iraq could be cleared up in MONTHS.Quote:
Pres. Bush did not make a new plan, or a new strategy or anything else.
Sure we can. The troops get to come home either when their tour is done or when the JOB is done. There isn’t supposed to be a time limit. Does your job have a time limit? Or do you go to work every day,” with no end in sight” and no idea when the job will be “over”? The job of the soldier is 24-7-365, and missions and wars don’t have time-limits. The enemy hasn’t said “We’ll stop fighting next Tuesday at 4pm.” Why should our troops have a time-limit when the enemy does not?Quote:
Sadly our troops are continuing to die. And while I can not than them enough for ensuring out security and at first, fighting for a cause. They have no been left there, with a so called "non opened time", so when will the get to come home? Seems no one can answer that.
Very pretty words. The problem is that in addition to allies, America has enemies. Those enemies wish to destroy us. We spent 40 years ignoring those enemies and not fighting them, and those enemies grew more bold… until one early September morning in 2001 they flew airplanes into buildings and killed 3,000 of our people. Making nice to our allies won’t stop the next attack. Making nice to our enemies won’t stop the next attack. RETREATING AND SURRENDERING won’t stop the next attack.Quote:
I care about our troops and their families, I care about the Iraqi people, the things and people they love and care about. I care that America has allies, I care about the need for us to back down and stop trying to control the world.
I am proud to live in a country that stands up to its enemies instead of cowering in a hole and hoping that they will stop hating us. I am proud to be a citizen of the most powerful country in the world that does not lie down for its enemies. I am proud to live in a country that stands up for human rights against mass-murdering dictators. I am proud to support a President who freed FIFTY MILLION PEOPLE from tyrannical regimes simply because it was the right thing to do. I am proud of a President who stands up for what is morally good and right against what is morally bad and evil without trying to apologize for the evils behaviors of others. I am proud to be part of a nation that has the highest quality of life in the world and didn’t have to conquer any other countries to sustain that wealth. I am proud of a nation that stands up against bullies and stands up for the little guy.Quote:
So like I said, at the moment I am ashamed to live here, to be an American.
How do you feel about the country you live in? What does America represent to you? What should it represent to the world?
What I’m wondering is why you AREN’T proud of that?
Elliot
Ah, someone mentioned the truth that trumps all... and I'm not surprised at who mentioned it and how long it took. I'm just wondering where the rest of you were during the lead-up to this war, because not once did I ever get the impression the only reason "we went into Iraq (was) because there were weapons of mass destruction".Quote:
Actually when Bush addressed the UN in September 2002, he outlined a whole bunch of reasons that Iraq was a danger.
And I might add, the reasons Elliot listed were the same reasons used by the previous congress and administration to justify regime change in Iraq, and the same violations listed by the UN for years. Regardless of how the war is going now, I for one am proud that our nation - along with every other country that contributed - finally said no to a man that gave the world the finger for more than a dozen years. Our nation - with full consent of the congress and approval of the majority of our citizens -finally had the resolve to confront this genocidal dictator.
Think Ghostbusters, "who ya gonna call"? And who is it they call? Who is running around telling us we need to do more about HIV, we need to contribute more here, more there, more everywhere? Who are these same people demanding our pullout from Iraq, demanding we mind our own business - perfectly willing to sit back and watch the chaos unfold when we leave Iraq prematurely - demanding we intervene in Darfur?Quote:
Why does America go running around telling other Diplomats what they can and can't do, what they can and can't have? Who made us the higher power?
With all due respect, if you believe that you're very naïve.Quote:
If we pull our troops out now there won't be an increase in violence.
I believe with the exception of the Jihadists, most of us feel the same.Quote:
I care about our troops and their families, I care about the Iraqi people, the things and people they love and care about.
I think most of us realize that if the Iraqis don't step up there will be a time you have to say no more, but I believe the tide is turning and the Iraqi people are getting fed up with the Jihadists in their midst. I refer you to an article tomder posted yesterday, Al Qaeda's new enemy -- Iraqis. I don't find the situation hopeless, I believe it was a noble cause, and I know there is more to the story than what we get from the left and the media.Quote:
In hand with that, when the mature person continues to work on themselves the other person starts feeling like things are changing, that something good is going on and then they can work on themselves together. That's what America needs to do, that is what Bush needs to do, be more mature in thought.
Then what's keeping you here? I have to admit though I am ashamed of America but I'm sure it isn't for the same reasons. I'm ashamed that we have so many people so enraged with a few men, generally Bush, Cheney, Rove, that facts don't matter. I'm ashamed we have a media, a party (Democrats), and an ideology (liberalism) so invested in failure. I'm ashamed that a culture of political correctness, etc. has led to some ridiculous need for self-flagellation.Quote:
So like I said, at the moment I am ashamed to live here, to be an American.
I love my country and I'd like to have it back. If nobody else is going to stand up and take the lead then America needs to.Quote:
How do you feel about the country you live in? What does America represent to you? What should it represent to the world?
Steve,
I tried to rate you but the system wouldn't let me. Good response. "Head, meet Nail."
Elliot
Ditto that to you. I guess we haven't spread enough reputation around :)Quote:
I tried to rate you but the system wouldn't let me. Good response. "Head, meet Nail."
I look threw this site more and more. And I see people like the one who posted this. If you don't want to be an American than I'll chip in part to and we will send you out of here. Im not a Im a democrat and I don't approve of the choices that President bush as made. But as I posted in another post on this site a little earlyier. I believe America is just to be in Iraq and Afgan... We are a world superpower. Its our duty to help other people in need. Iraqies lived under a leader who killed them in unthinkable ways. And the crap about you saying Iraqies do not want us there. Please! Ive never heard a bigger load of it.I think that you need to looking to the war in Iraq a little more than just what you see on NBC or CNN buddy. America has done pretty good in this war I think so far. We have been over there since 2003 and around what 3600 brave souls have died but that's not an alarming number for a war that has been going on thus long. But under any president we get we are always going to have people like you. That hate the president call him everyname in the book and want him impeached. But as I said before if you want out of this country feel free to leave. Im sure not to many Americans are going to care with that attitude that you have.
Well I'm doing a report over the Holocast and reading the book called "night". I need some help on what I should write. Note it's a "powerpoint".
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/po...CL100626991033Quote:
Originally Posted by jbester9893
I'm unclear if your doing a presentation based on Elie Wiesel's book "Night," or about the Holocaust in general?
This should help you with Wiesel's book:
Night Book Notes Summary by Elie Wiesel
As a primer concerning the Holocaust:
I suggest you start by studying the politics of Germany in the 1930's, Jews in German society, eventual deportations, and with special focus on "Kristallnacht."
Bobby
I'll just repeat part of the Speech by French President Sarkozy before Congress 2 months ago; given that so many people have answered your question about Iraq I'll skip that.
From the very beginning, the American dream meant putting into practice the dreams of the Old World.
From the very beginning, the American dream meant proving to all mankind that freedom, justice, human rights and democracy were no utopia but were rather the most realistic policy there is and the most likely to improve the fate of every person.
America did not tell the millions of men and women who came from every country in the world and who—with their hands, their intelligence and their heart—built the greatest nation in the world: "Come, and everything will be given to you." She said: "Come, and the only limits to what you'll be able to achieve will be your own courage and your own talent." America embodies this extraordinary ability to grant every person a second chance.
Here, both the humblest and most illustrious citizens alike know that nothing is owed to them and that everything has to be earned. That's what constitutes the moral value of America. America did not teach men the idea of freedom; she taught them how to practice it. And she fought for this freedom whenever she felt it to be threatened somewhere in the world. It was by watching America grow that men and women understood that freedom was possible.
What made America great was her ability to transform her own dream into hope for all mankind.
Together we must fight against terrorism. On September 11, 2001, all of France—petrified with horror—rallied to the side of the American people. The front-page headline of one of our major dailies read: "We are all American." And on that day, when you were mourning for so many dead, never had America appeared to us as so great, so dignified, so strong. The terrorists had thought they would weaken you. They made you greater. The entire world felt admiration for the courage of the American people.
My approach is purely pragmatic. Having learned from history, I want the Europeans, in the years to come, to have the means to shoulder a growing share of their defense. Who could blame the United States for ensuring its own security?
Now why would you be embarrassed about being an American?
DC His speech should be read by every American as well as Tony Blair's of Nov 16,2004
Tony Blair's Annual Speech on Foreign Policy Given at the Lord <b style="color:white;background-color:#990099">Mayor's</b> <b style="color:black;background-color:#ffff66">Banquet</b> in <b style="color:black;background-color:#a0ffff">London</b>
That is a great speech and true to its word. A courageous country indeed!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_crow
It is a shame that IMO through poor administration a lot of that admiration has now been lost. Maybe that is why the poster is embarrassed. The world was on your side after 9/11, but many of those that were, now aren't.
Fear, rage, and a thirst for revenge led us to squander a golden opportunity to demonstrate the wisdom and virtue of the ideals embodied in our founding documents and institutions. Instead, we abandoned those ideals and corrupted those institutions in pursuit of "payback". Turns out we're not so special after all. Nor can we blame George W. Bush exclusively (though a wiser leader may have been able to pull us back from the brink), because public opinion strongly supported his "kick as$ and take names" attitude in the immediate aftermath. But while a super-majority of the public has belatedly realized the folly of that approach (ABC News Poll: 80% Want Change), Bush remains eternally "optimistic" in the sunshine of his spotless mind. His current attempt to re-brand himself as a peacemaker boggles the mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skell
ABC News: Bush: 'They View Me as a Warmonger'Quote:
"I'm sure people view me as a warmonger and I view myself as peacemaker," the president said.
...
I don't believe democracies, you know, generally lead to war-like governments. You know, 'Please vote for me, I promise you war.' It's not something that tends to win elections.
(His 2004 Campaign Theme: "I am a war president")
Your argument fails on “Payback” as the cause in view of the attack on Pearl Harbor. The disappointment, as it is, stems more from the way we handled not the war that toppled the Taliban and Saddam, but rather the way it was handled since. Another failure was in government propaganda; it was and is still not being done. We demonized the Japanese and have failed to do so with the Al- Qaeda. Not only that, there is the social liberalization of the Western Governments, and particularly ours (EDIT – Liberalism reflected by your view).
Al- Qaeda on the other had has done a marvelous job of demonizing America in video's shown around the world.
IEEE Spectrum: Al-Qaeda: Venture Capitalists of Terror
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