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Originally Posted by spitvenom

Progunr I agree people who want to live in a country should know the official language but since the US has no official language which language should they learn? And really since this land was stolen from Native Americans shouldn't we all be speaking the language of the native Americans who were actually here first?Attachment 10060

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It doesn't take some politician to declare that English is the official language of America.

If we want to run the clock back over 2 hundred years, sure, lets all learn Native American.

What should we choose, Sioux, Cherokee, Choctaw or what?

There was no "Nation" back then, so each tribe was free to speak their own language.

When the white terrorists arrived, they learned to speak English, and most Native Americans speak English now.

To pretend that just because someone has not "declared" an official language for America, that there is none, is a bit ridiculous.

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Progunr I agree people who want to live in a country should know the official language but since the US has no official language which language should they learn?

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That of course was what Obama addressed in his flippant and arrogant way.He regrets that we are not European but we are who we are. I don't particularly care how we are perceived and it is my experience that the perception of the Ugly American is mostly hyped up by the elites and inaccurate.

The link I posted to above shows Canada has two languages BOTH considered OFFICIAL languages of the state.

You know I think that some American's are out of control. Our children are at the bottom of the totem pole in regards to the education level compared to other countries. This shouldn't even be a debate. I think that this whole thing started as another way to scrutinize Obama. The man just can't win for losing. Why not make it mandatory that all children learn spanish? I think that it should be a requirement on both ends of the spectrum. If spanish people want to come to America, make them learn english. Furthermore english speaking children should learn to speak spanish. Look at how rapidly the spanish community is growing in America. Tell me how the requirement of a child learning to speak spanish is a disadvantage again? No, no we don't want our children getting better jobs in and out of our country. (sarcasm, for all of you think may take my last statement literally) Peruse the want ads, how many of them say BILINGUAL IS A MUST? I don't care if Obama passes a law that says that all children must attend school 12hours a days with no summer breaks and one day off a week. Guess what? I am all for it. No one should ever make a stink about any form of education forced or not. I want my child to have a competitive advantage. I want my child to be a productive member of society. If it means me paying more taxes out of my pocket to do so then so be it, because in the long run I won't be paying to build new prisons, I won't have to pay that much to aide in the war on drugs and crime. To many people look at the short run and it never occurs to them to take the long run into consideration.

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Originally Posted by fjsmith81

You know I think that some American's are out of control. Our children are at the bottom of the totem pole in regards to the education level compared to other countries. This shouldn't even be a debate...I don't care if Obama passes a law that says that all children must attend school 12hours a days with no summer breaks and one day off a week. Guess what? I am all for it. No one should ever make a stink about any form of education forced or not. I want my child to have a competitive advantage. I want my child to be a productive member of society. If it means me paying more taxes out of my pocket to do so then so be it, becuase in the long run I won't be paying to build new prisons, i won't have to pay that much to aide in the war on drugs and crime. To many people look at the short run and it never occurs to them to take the long run into consideration.

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Nothing personal intended, smithy, but you sound like a good fascist!

She is 16

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Originally Posted by tomder55

that of course was what Obama addressed in his flippant and arrogant way.

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Evidence that he was flippant and arrogant?

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Originally Posted by tomder55

He regrets that we are not European

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When did he say that?

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Originally Posted by tomder55

I don't particularily care how we are perceived and it is my experience that the perception of the Ugly American is mostly hyped up by the elites and inaccurate.

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Sorry but you're wrong there. I've had the opportunity to travel Europe and have seen it first hand.

It is nice knowing a little Spanish I tell the guys down the street Usted está loco en la cabeza
Then they start speaking Espanol to me and I reply No hablo en Espanol

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Originally Posted by George_1950

Nothing personal intended, smithy, but you sound like a good fascist!

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I don't agree with that. I am not a fascist. I am not looking for a quick fix. Like I said I am looking at the long term picture. When I think of fascism I think of Hitler and how would what I said compare to that of Hitler's ideology?

No one is pretending anything we have no official language period. Just because a majority of the people speak English doesn't make it official. If someone is too lazy or close minded to learn a new language they are going to get left behind in the future. I think that scares a lot of people. It is much easier to sit there and complain that "I'm not going to learn a new language they should learn what i already know" then it is to actually adapt and learn a new language. As far as what native American language we would speak we should have learned them all since the tribes did stretch from east to west and north to south.

Tom actually I have met a quite a few people from Europe and when they find out I know Spanish and Italian they all say they same thing. So you aren't one of those typical stupid Americans. And to be honest that makes me smile to know I am not looked at as a fat McDonald's eating English only speaking ignorant American.

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Originally Posted by fjsmith81

I don't agree with that. I am not a fascist. I am not looking for a quick fix. like i said i am looking at the long term picture. When I think of fascism I think of Hitler and how would what I said compare to that of Hitler's ideology?

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Do you agree that kids should go to school for twelve hours a day, ten or eleven months a year, at whatever the cost?

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Originally Posted by George_1950

Do you agree that kids should go to school for twelve hours a day, ten or eleven months a year, at whatever the cost?

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I believe that I will do anything so that my child gets an education. I will do anything so that my child is a productive member of society. Come on isn't that the reason people have children? People want their children to have better than they had growing up. I grew up in an upper middle class household. I have been educated in computer science, finance, spanish, and french. I like fine wine, classical music, art, and traveling. You only acquire that knowledge through education. So in order for my child to have a better life than I had I have a lot of work to do. So if that means school 12 hrs a day and no summer school then so be it. And I think that maybe the problem with some parents is that they don't have the same mentality.

I believe if you become an American citizen you need to know English.
Also, to be fair, if you go to their country to live you need to know their language.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

yes Bobby

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Unfortunaly some of the answers early on glossed over that fact.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

the question is ...should it be recognized as such ? There is a case to be made for both sides . Obama's mockery does not move the debate forward at all.

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Nope. Here's why: if English was not the official language fifty years ago, it sure as hell can't be today were Spanish is more prevalent then ever. Nor would I desire to have Spanish as the official language fifty years from now. However I do think English in the US should be used in business and commerce, and perhaps mandated broadcasts for some major news networks at certain time slots. After that I don't care what people speak. Fortunately for my household we speak multi-languages, but for those that do not, the parents should encourage their children to learn additional languages at school so they are not at a disadvantage later. And visa-versa, others have to catch up and maintain English. Especially children that did not speak it in their early years. I don't want them at a disadvantage either. Obama's acknowledges America for it's diversity.

The immigrant issue is a little different. In Israel there are ulpans. Basically a school that saturates you in Hebrew so you can fit into society. Actually if I recall correctly it's mandatory. In the US we have English as a second language schools for adult immigrants, but it's not under immigration requirements. I think there should be some basic English course mandated for immigration here in the States and structured to the age of the immigrant with exception to seniors (I would exempt all seniors). Also those already proficient enough in English could take an exam and not have to take the basic course.

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Originally Posted by fjsmith81

I think that it should be a requirement on both ends of the spectrum. If spanish people want to come to America, make them learn english.

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I have worked for almost 25 years at a suburban Chicago library. In every suburb, there are Mexican communities where only Spanish is spoken, but when these residents venture out into the world of Target and Walmart and libraryland, they speak English to us gringos--granted, it's broken English but they do their darndest to communicate (with smiles) and it definitely is understandable. I would not do as well in Mexico.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

I have worked for almost 25 years at a suburban Chicago library. In every suburb, there are Mexican communities where only Spanish is spoken, but when these residents venture out into the world of Target and Walmart and libraryland, they speak English to us gringos--granted, it's broken English but they do their darndest to communicate (with smiles) and it definitely is understandable. I would not do as well in Mexico.

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I'm certain you would adjust very well if you had to, after 25 years.

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Originally Posted by George_1950

I'm certain you would adjust very well if you had to, after 25 years.

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The 25 years has nothing to do with it. When I started working there, Czech was the big language in the area. Then it was Hindi. Now it is Spanish. What's a librarian to do??

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Originally Posted by tomder55
that of course was what Obama addressed in his flippant and arrogant way.

Evidence that he was flippant and arrogant?

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Originally Posted by tomder55
He regrets that we are not European

When did he say that?

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He certainly did . He 1st berated us for not learning Spanish and then mocked (with a deliberate yayhoo mispronounciation for emphasis) that all we know how to say when oversees is merci bouquet.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

He certainly did . He 1st berated us for not learning Spanish and then mocked (with a deliberate yayhoo mispronounciation for emphasis) that all we know how to say when oversees is merci bouquet.

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He did only in your mind and intrepretation. BTW most americans travelling to France can't speak a word of French and those that do have a very accented version of it. I know, I'm french-canadian.

Not true, his words were just another example of how arrogant, and elitist he is.

He is "above" normal Americans, he thinks he is inherently "better" than the rest of us, and it shows every time he speaks.

All he has done with this "talking point" is to shore up some more of the Hispanic vote, and to demonstrate just how totally arrogant he really is.

Well as your compadre Mark Stein said ; When BO is President the only words of French Obama will need is merci bouquet as he takes his marching orders from the EU.

Dude,
McCain's campaign is funded by his rich wife - how much more 'elitist' can one get? McCain doesn't know how to use a computer and lies about his vet awards. Who's out-of-touch and thinks they can pull the wool over your eyes? McCain that's who.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

well as your compadre Mark Stein said ; When BO is President the only words of French Obama will need is merci bouquet as he takes his marching orders from the EU.

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When did Obama mention taking orders from the EU?

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When did Obama mention taking orders from the EU?

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actually they are getting a little nervous about him also . The other day when talking about those Iranian missile tests he said he would begin to conduct "meaningful negotiations " with the Mahdi-hatter... by implication levelling the charge that the negotiations conducted by the Europeans have not been meaningful or serious.

So instead of answering the question you deflect and try another tact. Dude, your lies and misrepresentations are pathetic. Bye now, enjoy your life.

Actually all I did was misquote

Here is the exact quote

“…what we should be doing is gathering our allies together in a serious effort to apply sanctions to Iran and encourage them to change their behavior.”
Obama ignores that European leaders are very seriously trying “to apply sanctions to Iran and encourage them to change their behavior.” In just one sentence, the man who says he wants to improve America's relationship with Europe insults Europe and denigrates Europe's attempts .
Pathetic !
You want a direct quote ?

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European officials are increasingly concerned that Sen. Barack Obama's campaign pledge to begin direct talks with Iran on its nuclear program without preconditions could potentially rupture U.S. relations with key European allies early in a potential Obama administration.

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Europe Fears Obama Might Undercut Progress With Iran - washingtonpost.com

As for the marching orders; the impression he gives is that he is more Europhile than American in his thinking . If Clinton was the first black President then Obama is the 1st black John Kerry.

So ;Does Obama speak Spanish?? No he does not .

Does he speak any other foreign language ? Nope ,he claimed he spole fluent Indonesian as a child, but has since backed away from that, after his teachers at both the Catholic School and the Muslim Indonesian public school Obama attended said Obama did not speak Indonesian at all.

Since he is so embarrassed when Americans go overseas and can't speak the native language I think he should be put to the test in his upcoming European tour. All interviews in Germany should be conducted in German... all in France ;in French (he's half way there... we know he can say merci bouquet ).

I think Obama is just jumping on the bandwagon that's on it's way to pick up all the illegals for amnesty. After all, once here, they will be a powerful voting bloc for the candidate that lifts them up.

Although I agree that a second and even third language in the home can be a great experience... I don't think our politicians should tell us which language to choose.

In my high school days, about a hundred years ago, I learned French. However when I had my condo in Florida, it was no help to me in deciphering rules and directions that were already printed in Spanish.

In fact, Disneyworld has always had duplicate signs in Spanish so it's not an entirely new idea.

My former husband was Chaldean and I learned to understand much of that language but do not speak or read it. Perhaps we should all be learning Arabic as another fast growing language. When I called my state Representative in Lansing, the phone message was first answered in Spanish and second in Arabic, before English finally came through. I was glad it finally said something I could understand...

I think this is interesting in regards to 'official language'.

Constitutional Topic: Official Language - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

There has been at least one interesting contrast to the pro-English efforts. In 1923, Illinois officially declared that English would no longer be the official language of Illinois - but American would be. Many of Illinois' statutes refer to "the American language," (example: 225 ILCS 705/27.01) though the official language of the state is now English (5 ILCS 460/20).

According to U.S. English, the following states have existing official language laws on their books: Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Hampshire, North Carolina, North Dakota, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, Virginia, Wyoming. A small handful date back more than a few decades, such as Louisiana (1811) and Nebraska (1920), but most official language statutes were passed since the 1970's.

If one reads the entire quote, and doesn't chop out a phrase to remove it from its context, this is what Obama really said:

"I don't understand when people are going around saying, 'We need to have English only.' They want to pass a law 'We want English only.' Now I agree that immigrants should learn English. I agree with that. But understand this. Instead of worrying about whether immigrants can learn English. They'll learn English. You need to make sure your child can speak Spanish. You should be thinking about how can your child become bilingual. We should have every child speaking more than one language. It's embarrassing when Europeans come over here, they all speak English, they speak French, they speak German. And then we go over to Europe and all we can say is merci beaucoup, right?"

If it were 25 years in the future, Obama would have used Mandarin Chinese as his first example. After all, when anyone in 2008 uses the term "bilingual," what is the first language thought of? Huh? Huh? I'm guessing you said "Spanish." Today, when we think "immigrants," we think "Mexicans."

Did you know that "conflate" is a word? "to fuse into one entity; merge: to conflate dissenting voices into one protest." (from conflate - Definitions from Dictionary.com
I had never thought of "...English only..." until reading Wondergirl's post. Here's an interesting post: "Obama seems to be conflating demands for English-only curriculum to hasten the assimilation of English as a Second Language students with opposition to foreign language courses." see: The Campaign Spot on National Review Online

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purplewings agrees: Leave it to a Canadian to decide what America should be doing.

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Where did you get the idea that I was deciding anything for anyone?

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All my Canadian friends have wanted to live in America al their lives. Maybe the 'Ugly American' idea turned them on.

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We have different friends I guess. I haven't met any canadians tjhat would prefer to live in the U.S. and I live here and meet canadians all day every day, hell I work in tourism! What's stopping your canadians friends from going to the US?

I guess it's not as easy for a Canadian to get citizenship as it is for others

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progunr agrees: WOW! That is the exact quote. And your point is?

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My point, dear progunr, is exactly what I stated in that post. "Today, when we think 'immigrants,' we think 'Mexicans.' Obama was referring to Mexican immigrants when he used the noun 'immigrants.' Thus his comment, "Instead of worrying about whether immigrants can learn English. They'll learn English. You need to make sure your child can speak Spanish." He was speaking specifically about Mexican immigrants, not immigrants from anywhere. And his point was, if we want to communicate with a Mexican immigrant, we learn Spanish. The same goes for immigrants from other countries--learn at least enough of their language to communicate with them. We're not doing THEM a favor--we're doing US a favor.

And I am learning Spanish--my poor version of it. Mexican immigrants smile and encourage me and help me along. On the other hand, the preponderance of Indian immigrants have learned British English since early grade school, so we don't have much of a problem understanding each other. Of course, I had to know some German to be able to understand my grandparents' speech.

Now, progunr, what haven't I made clear?

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Originally Posted by George_1950

I had never thought of "...English only..." until reading Wondergirl's post. Here's an interesting post: "Obama seems to be conflating demands for English-only curriculum to hasten the assimilation of English as a Second Language students with opposition to foreign language courses."

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As a former teacher, I totally agree with Obama and anyone else who believes that an immigrant student should be immersed in English, without the bilingual silliness. After the Tet Offensive, I was a math tutor to three Vietnamese immigrant boys. They spoke only the English they had picked up off the Vietnamese streets (probably from U.S. soldiers) during the war. No one in their U.S. school knew Vietnamese. I did not know Vietnamese. Thank goodness math is a universal language, but I was amazed at how quickly they picked up English. Of course, they learned a lot of slang and swear words from schoolmates and neighborhood kids, but learn English they did.

Obama said: "...You need to make sure your child can speak Spanish. You should be thinking about how can your child become bilingual...."
Obama is an elitist for elitists; as we've learned, he doesn't speak Spanish and not much else. The question is whether he can color himself well-enough (pander) to pull-off an election victory. He is very liberal, and liberals are not elected by telling the truth about themselves.

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Originally Posted by George_1950

Obama said: "...You need to make sure your child can speak Spanish. You should be thinking about how can your child become bilingual...."
Obama is an elitist for elitists; as we've learned, he doesn't speak Spanish and not much else. The question is whether he can color himself well-enough (pander) to pull-off an election victory. He is very liberal, and liberals are not elected by telling the truth about themselves.

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Back up the bus! He said, "you need to make sure YOUR CHILD can speak Spanish." You're saying Obama will not allow his daughters to learn Spanish? That would definitely be elitist.

What languages other than English do you speak, George?

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

My point, dear progunr, is exactly what I stated in that post. "Today, when we think 'immigrants,' we think 'Mexicans.' Obama was referring to Mexican immigrants when he used the noun 'immigrants.' Thus his comment, "Instead of worrying about whether immigrants can learn English. They'll learn English. You need to make sure your child can speak Spanish." He was speaking specifically about Mexican immigrants, not immigrants from anywhere. And his point was, if we want to communicate with a Mexican immigrant, we learn Spanish. The same goes for immigrants from other countries--learn at least enough of their language to communicate with them. We're not doing THEM a favor--we doing US a favor.

And I am learning Spanish--my poor version of it. Mexican immigrants smile and encourage me and help me along. On the other hand, the preponderance of Indian immigrants have learned British English since early grade school, so we don't have much of a problem understanding each other. Of course, I had to know some German to be able to understand my grandparents' speech.

Now, progunr, what haven't I made clear?

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OK, you made you point clear.

You believe that people coming to America, should expect us to learn their language, so it will be easier for them here?

Sorry, I was born here, they were not, if anyone needs to learn a different language, it is the people who WERE NOT BORN HERE!

And you even state that the learning of Spanish is for MY benefit, not theirs?

That is total BS.

I'm glad you are making friends and impressing the Mexican immigrants with your learning of their language, I'm most certain that the ones who come in contact with you will be very appreciative.

What ever we do, we sure don't want to do anything to make it less attractive for them to invade our southern border. Especially something so despicable as expecting them to speak the language of OUR country.

Geeeezzzzz, what the heck was I thinking?!

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Originally Posted by progunr

You believe that people coming to America, should expect us to learn their language, so it will be easier for them here?

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It's called getting along with other human beings. I was born in the U.S. and work in a public library where, every day, I deal with people who speak languages from many countries. They are all doing their best to learn English. Unfortunately, the U.S. has overstretched literacy teachers and resources. I do what I can to help people, no matter their country of origin, to feel welcome.

Have you signed up yet, progunr, to be a literacy teacher? We need every one we can get, since all those immigrants you are nattering about need people to teach them English.

My wife is from Thailand.

She went to school herself, and learned our language.

She didn't ask anyone to teach her for free, she paid for the education she wanted, and needed.

Even she can't believe or understand people with your's, and the Messiah's views on this issue and neither can I.

To each their own, that's my motto, we don't have to agree to be able to get along and I am certain that you are as firm in your belief, as I am in mine.

Enjoy your weekend.

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Originally Posted by progunr

My wife is from Thailand.

She went to school herself, and learned our language.

She didn't ask anyone to teach her for free, she paid for the education she wanted, and needed.

Even she can't believe or understand people with your's, and the Messiah's views on this issue and neither can I.

To each their own, that's my motto, we don't have to agree to be able to get along and I am certain that you are as firm in your belief, as I am in mine.

Enjoy your weekend.

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So you're just going to duck out now? How did your wife learn English? Most of the immigrants I know and deal with at work are learning English on the fly and from very patient native-English-speaking neighbors and coworkers and individuals they encounter in the community. They are immersed in English and have no choice but to learn it if they intend to survive in this country.