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The Kent State comment had to do with over-reaction, not results; so it is applicable in the sense I meant it.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Frankly your picture is disingenuous, why didn’t you show the one with him down on his back and six or seven officers over him.
Having reread the exchange and the context in which you made the "Kent State comment", I'm just not buying your explanation, DC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_crow
What difference would a different picture make, DC?Quote:
Frankly your picture is disingenuous, why didn’t you show the one with him down on his back and six or seven officers over him.
He behaved badly, ignored the very rules of debate he agreed to when selected to ask his questions, ignored the lawful order of Law Enforcement Officers and then proceeded to resist his lawful removal from the premises by the Law Enforcement Officers.
I ask you again, What difference would a different picture make?
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamgrowler
I think we operate on levels far to removed from each other for us to chat; let’s leave it at that.Quote:
Originally Posted by iamgrowler
Then might I suggest you exercise your inalienable right to add me to your ignore list?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_crow
Seriously.
Everyone is going to interpret the images how they want. I see what you described, "He behaved badly, ignored the very rules of debate he agreed to when selected to ask his questions, ignored the lawful order of Law Enforcement Officers and then proceeded to resist his lawful removal from the premises by the Law Enforcement Officers."Quote:
Originally Posted by iamgrowler
I also see that before he threw a fit, acted like an a$$ and resisted arrest the police tried to escort him away calmly. If you watch the video you'll also hear a woman officer tell him several times to "stop resisting" followed by what sounds like "what did he say, stop resisting," then a male officer warning him "you will be tased if you do not" - and I believe comply was the next word. Then while still resisting (and after Kerry's horrible joke) Meyer yells "get the f**k off of me." Well guess what? He got tased. He deserved it.
I think many here are missing the real issue, certainty after the police told him to leave he became a jerk; the questionable injustice was stopping him in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Not if he agreed to the terms of the debate/forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_crow
Well we will just have to wait and see where it goes. The State is going to do an investigation of the police department and two officers have been suspended.Quote:
Originally Posted by iamgrowler
Kerry, D-Mass. said Tuesday he regretted that a healthy discussion was interrupted, and said he never had a dialogue end that way in 37 years of public appearances.
"Whatever happened, the police had a reason, had made their decision that there was something they needed to do. Then it's a law enforcement issue, not mine," he told The Associated Press in Washington.
Here is an interesting take
“I was at the Kerry speech today, sitting 2 rows away from all the action. I'll let you know how it really went down.
Eyewitness Account of Taser Incident at Kerry Speech « Animam Recro
Actually, I think the picture is perfect - it shows him moving in the direction OF THE STAGE. Kind of explains why six or seven officers tackled him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_crow
Yes, suspended with pay... big downer for the officers, big punishment, too.Quote:
Well we will just have to wait and see where it goes. The State is going to do an investigation of the police department and two officers have been suspended.
I am trying to follow your line of reasoning to its inevitable conclusion: That any person should be allowed to express their views, at any forum, for whatever length of time they deem necessary, without interruption. Correct?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_crow
What if I chose to present a rambling solioquy (offensive or not), at the funeral or wedding service of a beloved member of your family? What if I chose to do the same at your daughter's college commencement ceremony? At what point would you say enough is enough, or would you?
I can understand the valid examples of civil disobedience that you have cited. The sad Kent State incident was a result of kids, not old enough to shave, being in a situation that neither side could handle. The exuberance of youth, and perhaps an excess of testosterone, can, if unchecked result in bad results. This is the real world, and not an academic exercise.
Well, does this account in any way change your opinion of how the situation was handled?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_crow
BTW, if you have issues with the attributions, or lack of, don't sweat it, I have issues as well.
Also -- FWIW, I have issues with the use of Tasers by law enforcement in general and in this instance in particular.
Was it really necessary to use a Taser with six officers on the scene?
I don't think so.
Then again, since the Taser has replaced the baton among LEO's, the outcome could have been very, very different.
Very valid point, growler. And I'd like someone to tell me, what would have been different if the LEO's had let that guy get any closer and perhaps made contact with the esteemed Senator? Or one of his staff?Quote:
Originally Posted by iamgrowler
Chances are, the people that were there to protect everyone at that forum would be subject to legal action. Even if someone wasn't touched or harmed, only traumatized by the events.
This entire incident has seen enough air-time, both here and on the networks, to fill volumes! Some will always favor "his" version, and other will always be able to accept the reality of what actually transpired.
Yes, because god forbid someone get their feelings hurt, or get scared... Sad, really.Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainRich
Sometimes that's all it takes... LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by jillianleab
Yes, it makes all the difference in the world; it accounts for why the police happened to be standing behind the student when the video started, that bothered me. It also explains why they were telling him to stop and leave the makeshift podium when he had just begun asking a question.Quote:
Originally Posted by iamgrowler
Good grief DC, did you watch the video? I did furnish one video, here it is from another angle from the beginning of his escapade.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_crow
Where should the police be, at the back of the room? He rambled for 30 seconds, it wasn't exactly "just begun to ask a question."
Neither shows the student running to the front of the line, one starts with Kerry and pans to the student standing, the other starts with the student.
How many angles do you need DC? Here is yet another, beginning with Meyer breaking free from the police and running back in the direction of the Senator. That makes him a threat to a US Senator.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_crow
Can someone post the eye-witness account here. I can't read it because of the firewalls on my computer.
Elliot
Quote:
Originally Posted by ETWolverine
Daily Kos: Eyewitness Account of the Student Tazering
Eyewitness Account of UF's Andrew Meyer Tasering Disputes Police Brutality Claim
UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA OTR: Some Eyewitness Accounts Support Mallo's Police Report [See related posts at bottom of the website]
Michelle Malkin » Student tasered at John Kerry forum Update: A University of Florida student/eyewitness shares what he saw; 12:15 pm Eastern 9/18 update: Another UF student speaks; Update: UF president schedules 2pm press conference…plus: Andr
Bobby
Transcript
JOHN KERRY:
"and to continue to pile name upon name upon some wall in the future for a strategy that has failed - that's the distinction.
Sir (Points to Andrew Meyer at microphone)"
ANDREW MEYER:
"I fir..I first and foremost want to thank you for your time. You spent a lot of time talking to us here today. I want to thank you for coming and being open and honest. Uh, you recommended a book to us earlier, I wanted to recommend a book to you it's called 'Armed Madhouse by Greg Palast'"
JOHN KERRY:
"Yeah, I have it actually..."
ANDREW MEYER:
"Yeah, he's the top investigative journalist in America..."
JOHN KERRY:
"I've already read it..."
ANDREW MEYER:
"and he says you won the 2004 election..."
JOHN KERRY:
"Right..."
ANDREW MEYER:
"Isn't that amazing! Isn't that amazing, you won in 2004! In fact, there were multiple reports on the day of the election of disenfranchisement of black voters in Florida and Ohio."
FEMALE OFFICER:
(to Andrew Meyer)
"Ask the question. Ask the question. Last question. Ask the question."
ANDREW MEYER:
"I'll ask my question. Thank you very much.
I'll ask my question. I'm going to preface it.
He's been talking for two hours, I think I could have 2 minutes.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much.
Alright I'm gonna ask him my question... I'm going to inform people and them I'm going to ask him my question.
So there were multiple reports of disenfranchisement of black voters on the day of the election in 2004 there was also voting machines, electronic voting machines in Okaloosa county in Florida that counted backwards.
So amidst all these reports of phoney, bogus stuff going on, how could you concede the election on the day?
How could you concede the 2004 election on the day?
In this book it says there were 5 million votes that were suppressed and you won the election.
Didn't you want to be President?
I'm not even done yet. I have 2 more questions
If you are so against Iran how come you're not saying
Let's impeach Bush now.
Impeach Bush now before he can invade Iran.
Why don't we impeach him? Impeach Bush.
Clinton was impeached, for what a blowjob, why don't we Impeach bush?
Alright..
Also, are you a member... were you a member of Skull & Bones in college with Bush? Were you in the same secret society as Bush?
Were you in Skull & Bones?
(Mic Cut)
(Andrew steps away, back and left, from the mic)
Thank you for cutting my mic.
Thank you."
(Female Officer grabs Andrew Meyer's right arm)
ANDREW MEYER:
"Are you going to arrest me?
Excuse me?"
(Female Office grabs Andrew Meyer's left shoulder)
FEMALE OFFICER:
"Stop. Stop it son."
ANDREW MEYER:
"Excuse me?
What are you arresting me for?"
(Male officer grabs Andrew Meyer's right arm with both hands and forces him forward)
ANDREW MEYER:
"Whoa! Whoa! Whoa!"
(Female officer leading Andrew Meyer away on left side with both hands holding left arm, Male office leading Andrew Meyer away on right side with both hands holding right arm)
ANDREW MEYER:
"Is anybody watching this?
I'm not doing it!"
(Inaudible)
(Audience applauds)
ANDREW MEYER:
"Get off me! Get off Me!"
(Andrew Meyer pulls back)
(officer's grab the front of his shirt)
(Third officer pushes him from behind left shoulder)
ANDREW MEYER:
"Hey!
What the are you doing?
Hey!
What are you doing? What are you doing?
What is going on here? What is going on here?
I want to stand and listen to the answer to my question!
Why are you arresting me for asking...?"
(Black Officer lifts Andrew Meyer by the waistband)
ANDREW MEYER:
"HELP! HELP! HELP!
Are you kidding? They're arresting me!
HELP!
What have I done?"
(4 Officers pin Andrew Meyer to the floor)
ANDREW MEYER:
"HELP!
Get off of me. I didn't do anything.
HELP!
HELP ME!
HELP!
They're arresting me!
Taser?"
MALE OFFICER:
"You will be tased if you do not comply!"
FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER:
"He's got a taser on his chest I mean..."
CAMERA WOMAN:
"This really is ridiculous..."
ANOTHER FEMALE VOICE OFF CAMERA:
"He's an idiot."
MALE OFFICER:
"You will be tased if you do not comply."
(Commotion noises and inaudible voices and inaudible John Kerry)
MALE OFFICER:
"Roll on your stomach... Put your hands behind your back or you will be tased."
FEMALE OFFICE:
"Push down... Do it now!"
ANDREW MEYER:
"Please don't!"
JOHN KERRY:
"I think if everybody would just hold on a sec(INAUDIBLE)
This situation (INAUDIBLE)..."
MALE OFFICER:
"You don't have an option!"
ANDREW MEYER:
"Let me just stand up!"
MALE OFFICER:
"Roll on your stomach!"
(Andrew Meyer rolls over and 6 officers - 4 on torso 2 on legs - push him down to the floor on his stomach)
JOHN KERRY:
"I'll answer his question, and um, well, unfortunately he's not available to come up here and swear me in as President."
(Andrew Meyer's right wrist is handcuffed behind his back)
ANDREW MEYER:
"Why are they arresting me?
Would somebody do something here?
I'm being Arrested!"
JOHN KERRY:
"Uh, Let me just say that, because it is a very important question..."
ANDREW MEYER:
"What did I do?
Get off me!"
MALE OFFICER:
"Give me the other hand!"
ANDREW MEYER:
"Get the off me man!
I didn't do anything!"
MALE OFFICER:
"Tase him!"
ANDREW MEYER:
"Don't tase me bro!
Don't tase me!
I didn't do anything!"
MALE OFFICER:
"Roll over!"
(Taser clicking 3 seconds)
ANDREW MEYER:
(SCREAMING)
"Ow...Ow...Ow...Ow...Ow...Ow...Ow...
Let me go... let me go..."
FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER:
"Stop! Stop it! Stop!"
MALE OFFICER:
"Get back now!"
FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER:
"No. Why?... Why are you doing that?"
ANDREW MEYER:
"Oh my God!
Why are you guys doing this?
What did I do?"
FEMALE OFFICER:
"Back up Back up!"
FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER:
"Why are you doing this?
What did he do?
Why?"
(Officers lift handcuffed Andrew Meyer and force him out the door)
ANDREW MEYER:
"What did I do?
What did I do?
What..."
__________________________________________
Bobby
Here's the Daily Kos account Bobby linked to:Quote:
Originally Posted by ETWolverine
Quote:
"I was at the Kerry speech today, sitting 2 rows away from all the action. I'll let you know how it really went down.
The forum was going to be over at 2 pm, and Kerry spoke for so long that the Q and A portion had to be shortened. He only got through about 7 of the 50 people who were waiting to ask questions. While the final question was being read, some douchebag ran down the aisle, grabbed the mic from the other side of the room, interrupted the kid who was talking, and started yelling at Kerry, demanding that his questions be heard. He started ranting about how Kerry talks in circles or something, and everyone was getting annoyed. The cops are all over him in no time and try to escort him out, but he starts yelling and resisting. Kerry insists that they let him stay and even agrees to answer his question.
After the interrupted guy's question was answered, Kerry keeps his promise and lets the angry guy talk. This is the point where people started taking their cameras and phones out. All the videos floating around youtube start around here. You can see in the videos that his questioning gets kind of inappropriate, so somebody cut his mic. Instead of shutting up, he starts yelling and making an even bigger scene. He struggled all the way up the aisle, and started violently trying to free himself. They threatened to taze him and he wouldnt stop fighting, so he got tazed. They only had to arrest him because he was causing a disruption and wouldn't leave peacefully. He wasn't being silenced for asking tough questions, trust me.
It's a shame that they had to taze the guy, but he had a chance to calm down and didn't take it. He probably didn't pose a physical threat to anybody in the room, but someone can't just hijack the floor of a forum like that and expect not to get kicked out. This wasn't some poor guy who was brutalized for trying to ask some tough questions. He's just an obnoxious guy who had a fit when there wasn't time for his questions and refused to be calm even when he was given the chance to speak. He was looking for trouble, and everyone applauded when he was forced to leave.
Nothing pisses me off more than hearing stories about power tripping cops abusing their power, unnecessarily tazing or arresting people, etc. It's a huge problem and I'm glad it's being discussed. Just don't mistake this for one of those cases."
Now you can buy the t-shirt...
http://hotair.cachefly.net/mm/taze.jpg
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