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Originally Posted by CaptainRich

I saw today on the news that Mexico plans to sue the US in international court to stop the fences. That's ironic. They don't care to keep their own citizens home.

For all we have to say about national sanctity and sovereignty, they apparently lack that same pride, to make the same efforts at home. What are they running from? Is Mexico such a bad place that they just can't stand it? Why can't they remain and turn things around there?

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They are running from poverty. I have been to Mexico, and yes it is a bad place. I don't even live there, and I couldn't stand it. Its nasty and disgusting, but the funny thing is, THEY made it that way. While I was there, I saw a grown adult pull down his pants and take a crap in the gutter, that is just plain gross. I think that they feel it is too far gone, and turning things around would take too much effort, so they just migrate over here. Besides the fact that while they're here, they have it easy. They can work (plenty of people will hire illegal immigrants), not have to pay taxes, and live somewhere clean (at least more clean than Mexico). Not to mention all they have to do is have a baby, and they qualify for welfare.

I am not racist, by any means, but I feel that it is a bunch of crap that the working people's tax dollars are supporting them. And I also do not want the United States to start looking like Mexico (some parts already do). I feel that if they don't like it in Mexico, they should have thought about that before they trashed it.

They've brought their bad habits with them? That's great news!

Who wants them for neighbors? Maybe we should start a sign-up sheet for the open border advocates..?

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Originally Posted by nauticalstar420

If there are white people where she lives that wont do the job, and the migrant workers will, the fact that she's saying so does not make her racist. You went off on this whole "African Amercans picking cotton" thing, when it has no relevance. They were FORCED to pick cotton (besides the fact that that was a long time ago, and hasnt been applied for a while), the Mexicans CHOOSE to work in the fields. Nobody forces them to do anything.

She said she wasnt racist, so she's not.

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.The Afro American work under the sun is relevant only if skin color is brought into the equation as the lady just did by saying that no WHITE person would EVER do that type of work no matter what. Nobody WANTS to be under the sun itching and sweating for meager wages. Forced? These people ARE forced because their life circumstance forces them to do it. Or maybe you have your own definition for what forced means. I have done jobs for meager wages in order to survive which otherwise I would never have done. Have you? If not, then that's the reason you feel that these people are sweating and itching under the sun voluntarily.

BTW

You wish to accept the glib explanation that the comment is A Okay and is racially neutral. That is your opinion. Mine is a different one

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Originally Posted by CaptainRich

They've brought their bad habits with them? That's great news!!

Who wants them for neighbors? Maybe we should start a sign-up sheet for the open border advocates...?!

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Have you considered that they might not want YOU for a neighbor?

BTW
When you cut down on the horendous American rape and murder, child abuse, and assault and battery statistics then maybe you won't look so ridiculous talking about other people's "bad" habits.

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BABRAM agrees: It's the dollar to peso rate and the bi-weekly trip to the Western Union.

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So they're using the exchange rate to pump dollars across the border?

.

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Originally Posted by Starman

.The Afro American work under the sun is relevant only if skin color is brought into the equation as the lady just did by saying that no WHITE person would EVER do that type of work no matter what. Nobody WANTS to be under the sun itching and sweating for meager wages. Forced? These people ARE forced because their life circumstance forces them to do it. Or maybe you have your own definition for what forced means. I have done jobs for meager wages in order to survive which otherwise I would never have done. Have you? If not, then that's the reason you feel that these people are sweating and itching under the sun voluntarily.

BTW

You wish to accept the glib explanation that the comment is A Okay and is racially neutral. That is your opinion. Mine is a different one

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Their life circumstance does not FORCE them to do anything. There are jobs available in Mexico, trust me. And yes, I have done crap jobs to get by, I didn't have to go to another country and do it though. Its called McDonalds.. and yes, there are McDonalds in Mexico.

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Originally Posted by CaptainRich

So they're using the exchange rate to pump dollars across the border?

.

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Last time I checked, which was a few weeks back, one US dollar got you twelve Mexican pesos. I would rather keep the dollar a dollar and wouldn't mind turning the table on Mexico to use their resources.


Bobby

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Originally Posted by nauticalstar420

Their life circumstance does not FORCE them to do anything. There are jobs available in Mexico, trust me. And yes, I have done crap jobs to get by, I didnt have to go to another country and do it though. Its called McDonalds..and yes, there are McDonalds in Mexico.

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There is a huge difference between being stuck for life in one dead-end job and taking a job temporarily, Also, what other country could you have gone to? There is no other. Additionally, why do you assume that McDonnell's pays the same rate as it pays here over there. The reason companies move to other countries is to exploit more than they do here. Otherwise they wouldn't go. There are also factories just inside the border exploiting Mexican workers to the hilt. It all boils down to GREED. The ability to pay a decent salary is there but the GREED is so strong that it prevents it.

BTW

My father, a USA citizen, worked a full eight hour day all his life and was paid BARELY enough to eat and pay a low income housing rent. It wasn't that they couldn't pay more, it was simply that they didn't want to pay more. That's the basis of our Capitalistic system--exploitation of the worker and who better to exploit than those who have no protection under the USA law in terms of wages than these non-citizen immigrants.

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Originally Posted by Starman

There is a huge difference between being stuck for life in one dead-end job and taking a job temporarily, Also, what other country could you have gon to? There is no other. Additionally, why do you assume that McDonalds pays the same rate as it pays here over there. The reason companies move to other countries is to exploit more than they do here. Otherwise they wouldn't go. There arec also factories just inside the border exploiting Mexican workers to the hilt. It all boils down to GREED. The ability to pay a decent salary is there but the GREED is so strong that it prevents it.

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Okay, obviously, just like on the other thread, everyone is going to bash heads. I respect your opinion, and hope you would respect mine. But like I said on the other thread, I feel to strongly about this to argue to no end. So, I won't be answering anymore, because all I'm doing is getting mad.

Have a good day, and no hard feelings (I hope) :)

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Originally Posted by Starman

Have you considered that they might not want YOU for a neighbor?

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I didn't invite them. If more want to move to my neighborhood, so be it! We are a very diverse group: on my left is a wonderful Haitian family, very hard working and very polite; across is an imigrated German couple, heavy accent but they haven't offended me! Further up the street is an old man who takes care of his autistic grandson... Across from him is a Swiss widower who makes wooden lawn ornaments and cabinets just for fun. Kind of Norman Rockwell-meets-melting pot. Oh! And my physical therapist is half Mexican and half Chinese. I have NO problem.

BTW

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When you cut down on the horendous American rape and murder, child abuse, and assault and battery statistics then maybe you won't look so ridiculous talking about other people's "bad" habits.

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I have no personal knowledge of their "bad" habits. I was responding to a prior post.

But, hey, maybe you should send these stats to them, explaining we already have enough to deal with? I'm not accusing all them of every crime on the street, but at the same time, are you condonning them flooding in? Does shear mass of numbers make it appropriate?

Did you know that Mexico has a law that bans foreign nationals from owning property with in 50 km of their beaches and 100 km fron their borders?

Things that make you go, "HUH?!"

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Originally Posted by CaptainRich

I didn't invite them. If more want to move to my neighborhood, so be it! We are a very diverse group: on my left is a wonderful Haitian family, very hard working and very polite; across is an imigrated German couple, heavy accent but they haven't offended me! Further up the street is an old man who takes care of his autistic grandson... Across from him is a Swiss widower who makes wooden lawn ornaments and cabinets just for fun. Kinda Norman Rockwell-meets-melting pot. Oh! And my physical therapist is half Mexican and half Chinese. I have NO problem.

BTW

I have no personal knowledge of their "bad" habits. I was responding to a prior post.

But, hey, maybe you should send these stats to them, explaining we already have enough to deal with? I'm not accusing all them of every crime on the street, but at the same time, are you condonning them flooding in? Does shear mass of numbers make it appropriate?

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I don't condone breaking international law or local law or any other kind of JUST law.
What I do condemn is misrepresentation of motives and a non American attitude toward those who are less privilaged than we are. Things can be resolved decently. If not, it only serves to create eventual social alienation among those who do become citizens but who bear the deep psychological scars inflicted by those who believed it their right and duty to persecute in order to express their displeasure.

Hi Rich-

A close Hispanic friend at my work place was telling me that only a Mexican citizen can own the property. That friend of mine is a legal US resident and from what I understood the reason Mexico came up with the law was because so many US citizens retired and then moved to Mexico. Strange enough you can always build a home in Mexico, but you better do it on a Mexican citizen's friends property that you feel secure about.



Bobby

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Originally Posted by CaptainRich

Did you know that Mexico has a law that bans foreign nationals from owning property with in 50 km of their beaches and 100 km fron their borders?

Things that make you go, "HUH?!"

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Dang! I do agree with you on that!

Apparently the process is so bogged down (again shear mass of numbers) nothing can be done. I guess we should either fix the problem and expand the program or relent?

And I'm sure some honest, law abiding citizens have been the brunt of scourge for anything other of their nationality have done, and that isn't fair.

Maybe the us should help to make mexico a better place with funding and aid and organisations and stuff, hence eliminating the need for them to leave mexico.

Why we support half their citizens here in the usa by welfare and food stamps

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Originally Posted by cal823

maybe the us should help to make mexico a better place with funding and aid and organisations and stuff, hence eliminating the need for them to leave mexico.

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Here's something to read:

Foreign Aid - US Embassy Mexico City

Note that the header says, "Foreign Aid from USAID (in millions of dollars)"

I say quit giving them aid, deport the illegals and close the border

Otto186 I am not saying that you are considering that Mexicans are on welfare and food stamps because they are simply, Mexican. But, I'm going to make a clarification, because your statement could create this "aura".

Supporting "half their citizens here in the usa by welfare and food stamps" as you have claimed Otto, is (and again I am not accusing you of what I'm going 2 write next) not because of the fact that they are "Mexicans" but is is only because of their situation.
Mexicans are human beings before they're Mexican. Those human beings have a situation. America should first take care of America (it has this right), but while doing this, America should try to make choices that are pro the rest of humanity.

America should secure the borders, but what are all the options? What are all the approaches and ways this can be done in? There are many many many ways to do this. What are they? There is not only one "Right" way to do it. There isn't only one "Left" way to get things done. I think?

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Originally Posted by Big10

Otto186 I am not saying that you are considering that Mexicans are on welfare and food stamps because they are simply, Mexican. But, i'm going to make a clarification, because your statement could create this "aura".

Supporting "half their citizens here in the usa by welfare and food stamps" as you have claimed Otto, is (and again I am not accusing you of what I'm going 2 write next) not because of the fact that they are "Mexicans" but is is only because of their situation.
Mexicans are human beings before they're Mexican. Those human beings have a situation. America should first take care of America (it has this right), but while doing this, America should try to make choices that are pro the rest of humanity.

America should secure the borders, but what are all the options? What are all the approaches and ways this can be done in? There are many many many ways to do this. What are they? There is not only one "Right" way to do it. There isn't only one "Left" way to get things done. I think?

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Well they can take there situation back to mexico. There are thousands of americans homeless and dying on the streets but the us government seems more interested in helping some people from another country. I say we take care of our own then try to be humanitarians.

Next of all I have been were mexicans are in large numbers. I have seen for myself they willl forge 6 different identies and draw checks that mine and you taxes pay for. I am not against the entire mexican race just the one that are here illegaly

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Originally Posted by otto186

well they can take there situation back to mexico. there are thousands of americans homeless and dying on the streets but the us goverment seems more interested in helping some people from another country. I say we take care of our own then try to be humanitarians.

next of all I have been were mexicans are in large numbers. I have seen for my self they willl forge 6 diffrent identies and draw checks that mine and you taxes pay for. I am not against the entire mexican race just the one that are here illegaly

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One thing you'll find is that most people on this board accept that your entitled to a freedom of speech and opinion. I happen to agree with you on the reduction of welfare across the board in the U.S. (everybody). In fact that was one thing your wife and I discussed and agreed fully upon yesterday. Now was your admittance to Excon of being a racist just a tongue-in-cheek comment in a moment of anger? BTW we already deport illegals and are working on fencing the border. The aid to Mexico will always be and if for no other reason than humanitarian, it's diplomatic.



Bobby:)

Yes Otto, America should try and take care of America first. Is that true about what you just wrote: that the government seems more interested in helping some people from another country? That's pretty bad if it is true, and it makes me trust the American government less. What is the point of that (if what you are claiming is true Otto).
You would think that the government was working for us, since we are paying the government.

I also know that their situation is partially caused by America, and I never thought to look at this fact, but was reminded of this when I read someone else's post. It's true, we did take some of their land, and you know what is done to a group in the process of conquering another's land. These people didn't wake up and decide to be poor or to do illegal things. There's something that produces that sort of behavior in a human.
We're on the same page though, about securing the border.

There are many programs available to those homeless on U.S streets, but they won't take advantage of them. Like one homeless guy told me, "I am not a case and I don't want to be managed." To get into a program, they have to give up independence in some way. Too many are alcoholics whose families have given up on them and they don't want someone telling them how to live. The illegal immigrants, on the other hand, are eager to get into those programs and get free medical care. Many are families with children.

Many of the illegals do not forge checks and take advantage of us. They just want jobs and a decent life and money to send back home.

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Originally Posted by BABRAM

One thing you'll find is that most people on this board accept that your entitled to a freedom of speech and opinion. I happen to agree with you on reduction of welfare acrosss the board in the U.S. (everybody), in fact that was one thing your wife and I discussed and agreed fully upon yesterday. Now was your admittance to Excon of being a racist just a tongue-in-cheek comment in a moment of anger? BTW we already deport illegals and are working on fencing the border. The aid to Mexico will always be and if for no other reason than humanitarian, it's diplomatic.



Bobby:)

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When I said I was racist I was not speaking out of anger.

Yes they want to close the border but all I hear is talk. Actions speak louder then words. As for as I am concerned I don't think the government is going to do crap!!

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Originally Posted by otto186

When I said I was racist I was not speaking out of anger.

yes they want to close the border but all I hear is talk. Actions speak louder then words. As for as I am concerned I dont think the goverment is going to do crap!!!

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OK. That's fair and honest. Between the two, an illegal and racist, I'd rather spend my energy deporting the greater of the two evils, that being the racist.



Bobby;)

Well if you want to let the illegals come over here that's fine. If you want to support their illegal lazy A$$ then good for you. I don't feel like I should, when I work 14 hr days just to support my family and myself

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Originally Posted by BABRAM

OK. That's fair and honest. Between the two, an illegal and racist, I'd rather spend my energy deporting the greater of the two evils, that being the racist.



Bobby;)

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I am what you call a equal opportunity racist.

I hate everybody equally

Have you thought of a different solution which may be cheaper and more quick, build a ditch so that vehicles cannot cross and people who try too are trapped in the ditch, it would make a good deterrent

A gun would make a good deterrent too but I would call it target practice

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Originally Posted by otto186

Well if you want to let the illegals come over here thats fine. If you want to support their illegal lazy A$$ then good for you. I dont feel like I should, when I work 14 hr days just to support my family and myself

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The fact is I don't. I went through the legal process as a sponsor. Like "Big10" in essence we agree with you, outside of your racist comment.



Bobby

Yes by all means expand the North American empire, after all it's more efficient not to have borders, of course, it is helpful if everyone speaks the same language, oops, a bit of a bug there, but easily solved in a few generations

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Originally Posted by paraclete

Yes by all means expand the North American empire, afterall it's more efficient not to have borders, of course, it is helpfull if everyone speaks the same language, oops, a bit of a bug there, but easily solved in a few generations

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Brain, be careful not to encourage him. He's a self-admitted racist and ready to shoot.



Bobby

I am also part of the armed forces so I am always ready to invade

I do believe in the right to keep and bear arms! I also pray nightly for my brother that's currently serving in Iraq for the fourth time.


Bobby

They are just crossing back into what was once Mexico. Consider it payback for land stolen.

1846: The U.S. provokes war with Mexico and acquires half of its territory, including Texas and California. U.S. Interventions

I do have one question, and I'm being completely serious. Is there anywhere in the US I can move to where I don't have to deal with illegal aliens? Montana possibly?

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Originally Posted by nauticalstar420

I do have one question, and i'm being completely serious. Is there anywhere in the US I can move to where I dont have to deal with illegal aliens? Montana possibly?

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Avoid places that have original Spanish names such as El Paso = The Way, Nevada=Snow Fall, Arizona=Arid Zone Colorado=Red Boca Raton=Mouses Mouth Florida=Land of Flowers, Tejas=Texas New Mexico Rio Grande=Big River since they were once Mexico proper and some Mexicans maybe think that it still is in a peculiar sort of nostalgic way.

But seriously, your best bet is either Alaska or Hawaii. But then again there is a Puerto Rican presence there, small, but for the sensitive like you it might prove distracting.
As for the Alaskan Inuit, why, they are almost invisible and can't really be considered immigrants since they were there first. Buit then again there is a certain disconcerting resemblance.

Montana= Mountain might be fine for you since immigrants seem not to go in that direction. The article below clarifies why these American as apple pie places have these strange sounding totally un-American FOREIGN-sounding names.

Excerpt

Spanish Place Names
Hispanic heritage from coast to coast

by Holly Hartman

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Alcatraz Island, now part of the Golden Gate National Recreation Area, draws over a million visitors each year

The Spanish were among the first Europeans to explore what is now the United States, and the first to found a permanent settlement here (St. Augustine, Florida, in 1565). From Alaska's Madre de Dios Island to Mexico, Maine, the United States is dotted with Spanish place names. Here are a few.

Alamo: "poplar." This tall softwood tree gave its name to a number of U.S. places, including the memorable chapel-fort in Texas and the town of Los Alamos in New Mexico, where atomic bombs were produced.

Alcatraz Island (California): from "álcatraces," pelican. A sizable pelican population once lived on this rocky island in the San Francisco Bay.

Boca Raton (Florida): from "boca de ratónes," a Spanish term applied to nearby inlets. It translates as "mouth of the mouse" (not "rat," which is "rata") and may refer to the jagged rocks at these inlets. It has also been suggested that "ratónes" was a term used for the pirates who might hide in such a place.

California: The state was named for a mythical land described in a popular Spanish novel from around 1500, Las sergas de Esplandián (The exploits of Esplandián) by Garcia Ordóñez de Montalvo.

Cape Canaveral (Florida): from "cañaveral," canebrake. The promontory NASA made famous takes its name from the thickets of cane that grow in sandy areas.

Colorado: "reddish." The state is named for the reddish color of mud found in the Colorado River.
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In 1846, during the Mexican War, Commodore John Sloat captured the Mexican village of Yerba Buena and renamed it San Francisco.
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El Paso (Texas): "passage." The border city of El Paso lies at a small gap between the Rockies and the Juarez Mountains of Mexico. This narrow passage has made the city a hub for both north-south and east-west travel.

Florida: "Flowery." Some say that Spanish explorer Ponce de Leon named the land for the Spanish term for Easter, Pascua de Florida (Flowery Feast), because he first saw the land during the Easter season. Others believe he named it for the area's lush flowers.

Fresno (California): "ash tree." The central Californian city and county are named for their abundant ash trees.

La Brea (California): "tar." The tar pits in this famous part of Los Angeles have yielded amazing fossils for more than 100 years.

Las Cruces (New Mexico): "crosses." The city is named for the burial ground of some 40 travelers who were killed by Apaches in 1830. RELATED LINKS
Where Spanish is Spoken

Origin of State Names


Las Vegas (Nevada): "meadows." Before casinos and neon lights defined Las Vegas, the area was noteworthy as a desert oasis with artesian springs.

Los Angeles (California): "angels." In 1781 Spanish settlers founded El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de Los Angeles de Porciúncula (The Town of Our Lady the Queen of the Angels of Porciúncula). It became known as La Ciudad de los Angeles (City of Angels), and then just as Los Angeles.

Los Gatos (California): "cats." At the time this western California city was founded, many wildcats roamed the area.

Montana: from "montaña," mountain. Representative James M. Ashley of Ohio suggested using the Spanish word in honor of the territory's mountainous western part.

Nevada: "snow-covered." The mountains in this western state are often capped with snow.

San Antonio (Texas): "Saint Anthony" (of Padua). On the feast day of St. Anthony in 1691, Spanish explorers found and named the eponymous river. Later the name was given to the city, which was founded in 1718.


Adobe buildings in Santa Fe, New Mexico
San Francisco (California): "Saint Francis" (of Assisi). The city by the bay was once a Mexican village named Yerba Buena (Good Grass). In 1846, during the Mexican War, Commodore John Sloat captured and renamed the settlement for its San Francisco de Asís mission (better known as Mission Dolores), which was founded in 1776.

Sangre de Cristo Mountains (Colorado and New Mexico): "blood of Christ." This mountain range was named for the red glow cast on it by the setting sun.

Santa Fe (New Mexico): "holy faith." Spanish settlers founded this oldest U.S. capital nearly 400 years ago, as La Villa Real de la Santa Fe de San Francisco de Asís (The Royal City of the Holy Faith of Saint Francis).

Spanish Place Names


BTW

So steer clear of such places and you're good to go.

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Originally Posted by Starman

Avoid places that have original Spanish names such as El Paso = The Way, Nevada=Snow Fall, Arizona=Arid Zone Colorado=Red Boca Raton=Mouses Mouth Florida=Land of Flowers, Tejas=Texas New Mexico Rio Grande=Big River since they were once Mexico proper and some Mexicans maybe think that it still is in a peculiar sort of nostalgic way.

But seriously, your best bet is either Alaska or Hawai. But then again there is a Puerto Rican poresence there, small, but for the sensitive like you it might prove distracting.
As for the Alaskan Inuit, why, thwey are almost invisible and can't really be considered immigrants since they were there first. Montana= Mountain might be fine for you since immigrants seem not to go in that direction. Prostitution is legalized there which you might also consider a plus. The article below clarifies why these places have these strange FOREIGN names.



Fresno (California): "ash tree." The central Californian city and county are named for their abundant ash trees.



BTW

Steer clear of such places and you're good to go.

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Wow, thanks for all of that info, seriously. I knew what some of those names meant, but not all.

Why would I find prostitution a plus? Are you implying that I'm a prostitute, or like to sleep with them? That would be an insulting implication and I do not appreciate it.

Fresno happens to be where I am from :)

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Originally Posted by nauticalstar420

Wow, thanks for all of that info, seriously. I knew what some of those names meant, but not all.

Why would I find prostitution a plus? Are you implying that i'm a prostitute, or like to sleep with them? That would be an insulting implication and I do not appreciate it.

Fresno happens to be where I am from :)

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My aplogies I thought you were male since I didn't take a look at the photograph.
I will erase that part of my response.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Starman

My aplogies I thought you were male since I didn't take a look at the photograph.
I will erase that part of my response.

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Its okay, no worries :)

I have a bad habit of not thinking before I speak/type, as you have seen in previous posts of mine. Someone was calling me racist and I'm really not, but I guess I did make myself sound like I am. I apologize for that.