Why world Leaders worry about N. Korea, Iraq, Iran having nuclear weapons?
Very simple , Those countries dose not have code of governing ethics. Single hand Controls of laws and commanding the country under dictatorship ,Leader of the country is above the law, no sense of security on other countries stability, Also No sense of value on Human life . For them destroying their So called enemy is destroying the people of the country. So do you think Nuclear weapons is suitable for them.

Today we all know N.Korea has 500% human rights violation and unbelievably number of people on hunger and extreme poverty. Most number of food and other essential products is import from Japan. They are in lack of Health facilities, children are dying with out food, basic medicine so on.

Sanction is not the answer. N.Korea knew if they test it they will face this. But the Leader of the nation did it.

He is happy , he is in lime light. Do you think? People of N. Korea want it. Unless they are asked to perform patriot action on behalf their leader.

Some of the USA's problems stem from its self appointed role as police of the world.
Once that role is assumed then world events must be responded to accordingly or else face is lost. Countries, such as England, and France can conveniently sit back and ignore certain events because they haven't tagged themselves as law enforcers and so no face is lost if they simply decide to look the other way. China, for example, and Russia, don't seem to react to world events with the same vehemence as our government does.

Perhaps this is because they leave that to the USA whom they know will jump right in if ever anyone as much as twitches a muscle without its consent.

England takes a stance as does Canada as well. We support US efforts in Afganistan and if our military was as mighty as the US, the news would focus in on our efforts as well.

Proof is the attempted terrorist attact on Englands international flights that was founded and spoiled by England's anti-terrorist division. If we want a society of democracy, everyone has to contribute and there has to be a leader. Just because US is the leader doesn't make them self-proclaimed.

We should be thankful that someone has stepped forward to take the stick before we crash!

I can't help wonder what a difference it could have made if diplomacy had been used instead of armies.

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Originally Posted by bhayne

England takes a stance as does Canada as well. We support US efforts in Afganistan and if our military was as mighty as the US, the news would focus in on our efforts as well.

Proof is the attempted terrorist attact on Englands international flights that was founded and spoiled by England's anti-terrorist division. If we want a society of democracy, everyone has to contribute and there has to be a leader. Just because US is the leader doesn't make them self-proclaimed.

We should be thankful that someone has stepped forward to take the stick before we crash!!

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That doasn't negate the fact that the USA is the prime one expected to react decisively
Which takes the ultimate pressure off all other countries which could easily bow out if things get too hot. In fact, the USA even went above the advice of the United Nations and took the lead during the weapons of mass destruction issue. True, Canada and England and other countries follow its lead-but they can bow out easily if they choose and will not lose the amount of face that the USA will if it bows out after having gone through extensive posturing.

BVTW
I'm not taking sides in foreign policy issues one way or the other but merely responding to the question asked with whast I perceive to be a contributing factor to the present situation in which the USA finds itself. Nothing more.

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Originally Posted by bhayne

England takes a stance as does Canada as well. We support US efforts in Afganistan and if our military was as mighty as the US, the news would focus in on our efforts as well.

Proof is the attempted terrorist attact on Englands international flights that was founded and spoiled by England's anti-terrorist division. If we want a society of democracy, everyone has to contribute and there has to be a leader. Just because US is the leader doesn't make them self-proclaimed.

We should be thankful that someone has stepped forward to take the stick before we crash!!

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Yes, but, unlike our current president, your Mounties "always get their man."
Anyone heard from bin Laden lately? How about it? Dudley Do-Right in 2008. Any votes?
It's got to be better than "Spudley Do-Wrong." :rolleyes: :)

About bin laden, it's quite hard to find a dead man! Look at Jimmy Hoffa, and he's somewhere in your own back yard!

As for 'the mounties always get their man'; well, where would their man go? I mean, the US has the death penalty, Russia and China just cut off your limbs and North Korea just shoot you on the spot- no questions.

In Canada, when your in jail you get time off to vote, widescreen TV in every cell with pay-per-view and a wage! The hardest decision for released criminals is whether to stick with Canada's lucrative social service or return to another loafer jail sentence!

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Originally Posted by bhayne

About bin laden, it's quite hard to find a dead man!! Look at Jimmy Hoffa, and he's somewhere in your own back yard!!

As for 'the mounties always get their man'; well, where would their man go? I mean, the US has the death penalty, Russia and China just cut off your limbs and North Korea just shoot you on the spot- no questions.

In Canada, when your in jail you get time off to vote, widescreen TV in every cell with pay-per-view and a wage! The hardest decision for released criminals is whether to stick with Canada's lucrative social service or return to another loafer jail sentence!!

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Are you serious about the cutting off limbs as punishment in China and Russia?

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Originally Posted by talaniman

I can't help wonder what a difference it could have made if diplomacy had been used instead of armies.

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Nations are like people. Some people respond to courtesy positivelely and others
Don't. Hitler for example viewed diplomacy as a weakness. Nevertheless, diplomacy is the preferable course of action in personal and international relations. It is truly a pity that mankind, the only creature able to reason on this planet is the very creature who threatens the existence of all life on earth due to its inability to settle things peacefully. In my opinion only divine intervention can ultimately bring peace to this earth. In the meantime nations will keep trying their best. But as history proves and as the present situation shows their best falls very far short. In fact, their best seems to be getting us deeper and deeper into trouble. It's like the animal that struggles to get out of the tar pit and only hastens his end by doing so..

I lost an Uncle in the Korean War... he died of a lost of blood... Lost a brother in the Vietnam conflict and a few uncles( some still have the ring of ears they were asked to collect) and cousin came home with mental illnesses and the government has shown little attention to the issues... a brother in law in the gulf war and cousins I had yet to meet are now crisis in the middle east... most important for everyone to remember who dead and give up their mental state... for the right to strive for perfection...

Canada participated in *South African - Boer War 1899-1902;World War1 1914-1919;World War 2 1939-1949;Korean War (Conflict) 1950-1953“Canada's role in the First World War and her 60,000 dead had earned her the right to” place any delegation at the peace table... so why are we not hearing something from Canada... it is true what is best for the United States is best for its bordered nations... if someone sends a dirty bomb this direction Canada and Mexico will feel it..
*http://www.rootsweb.com/~canmil/siberia/siberia5.htm

We should have we learned something from these wars... the enemy must be made clear... in this conflict... the enemy sometimes feels like ourselves...

I do feel that the west has placed method of poverty as a way of controlling a population... keeping them passive to the controlling authority issues which are: hating anything communist or socialist even through we have taken some of these ideas and melt them into our society (social security and kindergarten)... skin coloring and hair texture...

Poverty was created by the imperialist stand of the west... poverty creates despair and hopelessness... and it also creates a servitude bond to who ever offers a way out of the condition... of poverty... you have people willing to die instead of being bonded to servitude...

For example, within the minorities in the U.S... very few people in the world community respect American minorities because the ruling body has so disgraced and demeaned them.
Israel needs to keep none Zionist employed and Iraq's need to keep certain Muslims or Moslem groups suppressed... for what?. for all nations wants a suppressive minority group like America... after all it is a fashionable statement... every one wants a big dog...

If a nation desires to be ruled under the authority of the west they will have to stand behind or underfoot of the west's authority.
And if the west wants to give a relief... it is marked by the bill of rights. Voters rights for minorities in America (in under a time table and must be brought back to the table to be reexamined so many decades
... if you are of... Euro heritage no such legislation exist... that gives time tables and reexamination... of a Euro right...

If there is to be peace there must be a cleaning up of one's own neighborhood. Then the United States will sing we have overcome... we have over came it's years/century of bondage and needing of this servitude attitude... righteous movement... until that comes this bronze statue with a clay base... will all ways be recognize as such and treated as such...

Building a nation on hate (which is representative of clay)... there will be no peace... and no peace will exist in the middle east as long as they have an understanding that no nation with a weak leader... mark... an apology is necessary to give to world for the missed - guided action of our ancestors...

... the problem is false teachers of the faith on both sides... these people do not care whom they hurt

... the U.S. has it evangelical right also... starting with the religious leaders telling the population the world needs to be under the direction of Euro America and if no one sees it that way they need to die... prove wrong

... religion plays a role in humanity destruction... what is at the end of revelation and what are we to do with the religionist text once the prophecy had been fulfilled... throw them into the lake of fire... if a nation is ready to throw all religionist text into a lake of fire then we will see the beginning of heaven on earth...

Just an opinion...

Smaller or less-developed nations with a relatively small or inferior conventional militaries present a special problem for the very reason that their military capabilities are so limited.

Faced with a vastly superior enemy, what would be the logical expectation for a smaller country about to lose a war (and all that goes with that) that, while it could not prevail with conventional arms, had a nuclear device? Of course they would use it. Given the choice between defeat and employment of atomic weapons, most governments/militaries would quickly nuke their opponents.

Nuclear weapons are seen as the great equalizer by the leadership of many smaller, third-world, and developing nations. Indeed, the United States relied on exclusive possession of atomic weapons to keep the Soviet Union at bay without having to expend tremendous sums on conventional military forces. We had 'em, they didn't, what's the worst that could happen? It was like fistfighting, only your opponent has a gun and you don't... You can't really even try to beat him. That strategy worked until the U.S.S.R. with a little help from the Rosenbergs, got their own.

Fortunately, the answer to nuclear proliferation amongst smaller nations is quite simple. They want the weapons so as to keep larger, stronger nations (like ours) at bay. They need nukes because their conventional military is inadequate. The most effective solution, therefore, is to make it clear that the U.S. or, preferably, the U.S. and allies, will attack and destroy any facility believed to be utilized for the manufacture of such weapons

As soon as we detect that Country X has developed the ability to produce weapons grade material, or a delivery system readily usable for a nuclear strike, we will destroy your research and development facility, as well as any military installation known to be the base for personnel working with nuclear weapons - either the design/fabrication, research, or in a line unit to be armed with nukes - we destroy such facilities, quickly and completely, along with a degree of punitive damages, designed to discourage such policies.

What are they going to do? They wanted nukes because their conventional forces were inadequate to mess with us, so what are they going to do if we destroy their facilities? Exactly nothing, because they can't. That's why they wanted the weapons to begin with.

Gary,
That reasoning could explain why the US is so hated.

GaryArt, They could hi-jack a plane and run it into..!

They could blow up a subway system during rush hour.

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Originally Posted by Starman

That doasn't negate the fact that the USA is the prime one expected to react decisively
which takes the ultimate pressure off all other countries which could easily bow out if things get too hot. In fact, the USA even went above the advice of the United Nations and took the lead during the weapons of mass destruction issue. True, Canada and England and other countries follow its lead-but they can bow out easily if they choose and will not lose the amount of face that the USA will if it bows out after having gone through extensive posturing.

BVTW
I'm not taking sides in foreign policy issues one way or the other but merely responding to the question asked with whast I perceive to be a contributing factor to the present situation in which the USA finds itself. Nothing more.

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"Losing face" is an oriental characteristic that has become very important to President Bush. He will send thousands more to their deaths rather than admit he was wrong in judgement, wrong in action, wrong in strategy, and wrong in his forecasts.

The Iraq War will, in the future, be referred to as "The War of George W Bush's Pride," of "The War Of Bush's Folly."

Even some republicans are seeing the light.



M:)

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Originally Posted by Starman

Are you serious about the cutting off of limbs as punishment in China and Russia?

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I think not. Muslim countries under Sharia Law use amputation as punishments. In severer cases, decapitation.

China slaughters its citizens each year - numbered in the thousands - for capital offenses that in the West carry only custodial, probationary, or financial penalities. How's that for denial of human rights? Isn't it time that the US insisted that China democratise, or else suffer invasion to force democracy on them, a la Iraq?

Will Bush stand by and let Tyrannical China crush Democratic Taiwan (Formosa)?

Remember the Bushamo!



M:)

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Originally Posted by Morganite

"Losing face" is an oriental characteristic that has become very important to President Bush. He will send thousands more to their deaths rather than admit he was wrong in judgement, wrong in action, wrong in strategy, and wrong in his forecasts.

The Iraq War will, in the future, be referred to as "The War of George W Bush's Pride," of "The War Of Bush's Folly."

Even some republicans are seeing the light.



M:)

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Yet Bush was reelected in preference of a candidate who opposed the war in Iraq.
Which seemed to indicate that those who voted were in agreement with his policies.
Now we hear that most Americans disagree with his policies. Could these be the very ones who reelected him? If so what did they expect from him on his second term since he was very clear that he was going to continue along the same lines.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Morganite

"Losing face" is an oriental characteristic that has become very important to President Bush. He will send thousands more to their deaths rather than admit he was wrong in judgement, wrong in action, wrong in strategy, and wrong in his forecasts.

The Iraq War will, in the future, be referred to as "The War of George W Bush's Pride," of "The War Of Bush's Folly."

Even some republicans are seeing the light.



M:)

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Perhaps he sincerely believes himself to be right?

Bush's decision, according to him, was his being misinformed about the presence of weapons of mass destruction. Once he knew there were no weapons of mass destruction, however, he shifted gears and claimed that it was America's duty to liberate Iraq from an oppressive dictatorship. This was a policy tantamount to nation building and one which he had previously said that America was not in the business of.-a shift of policy which was never satisfactorily explained during press conferences where it was repeatedly brought up.

The situation reminds me of the Roman Empire's attempt to conquer and pacify the Iberian Peninsula after the defeat of Carthage for the sake of national security. It took Rome two-hundred years of on and off bloody warfare. However, the Roman population encouraged the struggle to go on regardless of the cost which turned out to be very high in terms of human life.

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Originally Posted by Morganite

I think not. Muslim countries under Sharia Law use amputation as punishments. In severer cases, decapitation.

China slaughters its citizens each year - numbered in the thousands - for capital offenses that in the West carry only custodial, probationary, or financial penalities. How's that for denial of human rights? Isn't it time that the US insisted that China democratise, or else suffer invasion to force democracy on them, a la Iraq?

Will Bush stand by and let Tyrannical China crush Democratic Taiwan (Formosa)?

Remember the Bushamo!

M:)

---

What irks me about the present policy is it's blatant bold-faced inconsistency.
On the one hand Cuba is denied commerce with the USA and other nations are discouraged from doing trade with Cuba via warnings of foreign aid withdrawal because it is communist. Meanwhile a thriving business with China goes on and foreign aid offers are made to North Korea. How is the Cuban government supposed to make any sense of this-not to mention China and Korea themselves whom I imagine smirking? If indeed Cuba is being punished for being communist while China and Korea and even perhaps Viet Nam are not, as Russia certainly wasn't during the Cold War when surplus wheat was sold to them, then the claim that the punishment of Cuba is connected to communism and its violations of human rights becomes unbelievable and one begins to suspect another motive.


About invasion of China, that would be far more costly than invasion of Iraq. China has nuclear weapons pointing our way right now and would use them against our cities and our armies as well if it came to their being defeated in conventional terms. My visit there revealed it to be an emerging USA type power in Asia. That's the impression I got and which was later confirmed via research.


Excerpt:

China's Military Capabilities

Frank W Moore, IDDS Research Analyst
June 2000


Intercontinental Nuclear Forces

China currently maintains a minimal intercontinental nuclear deterrent using land-based intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs). The Dong Feng-5 (DF-5) liquid-fueled missile, first deployed in 1981, has a range of 13,000 km and carries a single multi-megaton warhead. Twenty are believed to be deployed in central China, southwest of Beijing. Unlike China's earlier ballistic missiles, which were stored in caves and moved out for launch, the DF-5 can be launched directly from vertical silos—but only after a two-hour fueling process. In order to increase the survivability of the DF-5s, dummy silos are placed near the real silos. The DF-5's range gives it coverage of all of Asia and Europe, and most of the United States. The south-eastern US states are at the edge of the missile's range.

Two additional long-range ballistic missiles are in the development stage, the 8,000 km DF-31 and the 12,000 km DF-41. Both missiles are expected to be solid-fueled and based on mobile launchers. It is not known how many missiles China plans to deploy nor how many warheads the missiles may carry, but it is believed that China is hoping to deploy multiple nuclear warheads and penetration aids. These may be either multiple re-entry vehicles (MRVs) or the more capable, but technically difficult multiple independently-targetable re-entry vehicles (MIRVs). First deployment for the DF-31 could occur before 2005; the DF-41 is likely to follow, possibly around 2010.2

China's nuclear-armed naval forces are currently limited to one Xia Type 092 nuclear-powered and nuclear ballistic missile-equipped submarine (SSBN), which has a history of reactor and acoustic problems. The Xia can carry 12 Ju Lang-1 (JL-1) SLBMs with a single 200-300 kt warhead and a range of 1,700 km. Due to its technical limits, the Type 092 is never deployed outside regional waters.

http://www.comw.org/cmp/fulltext/iddschina.html


http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/China/ChinaArsenal.html


BTW

I almost lost my life at the hands of Beijing airport taxi and hotel reservation employee ruffians who went about as if no law at all existed there. Strange for a land which punishes crime so severely

I think we have to somehow find a way or ways to communicate with those leaders that threaten us, I am opposed to "direct" negotiation with them however and don't quite know why I think that way - I surmise that I dislike dealing with radicals, but I am sure there are ways to communicate through others. Remember the Cuban Missile Crisis and how we communicate with the Russians ? Through an American journalist talking with a Russian diplomat at a restaurant in the US. The journalist told the Russian diplomat that in return for us removing warheads from Turkey, the Russians would remove already armed warheads from Cuba and shelve their plans to install more missles in Cuba. The diplomat asked with what authority the journalist was speaking and the journalist replied from the "highest' American authority. Without lines communication open we somehow become fearful of each other.

"

Quote:

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Losing face" is an oriental characteristic that has become very important to President Bush. He will send thousands more to their deaths rather than admit he was wrong in judgement, wrong in action, wrong in strategy, and wrong in his forecasts.

The Iraq War will, in the future, be referred to as "The War of George W Bush's Pride," of "The War Of Bush's Folly."

---

It is the fault of limited minded people that supported this war with Iraq... no one asked questions... former Secretary of State Powell... showed a clip to the united nations... he showed a truck... and he stated that this truck was carrying questionable substance... no one challenged the information... later after viewing the clip... the truck was a fire truck... Iraq President committed an act against humanity by killing women and men and children... for nothing more than... he heard that someone in that neighborhood hated him... Bush has one issue on his plate the attack against U.S. interest... Bush should have focused... and never minded the words of a this man S.H.. . his neighbors had him at check... those who voted Bush man back into office are responsible for the chaos... Not giving the attention this important issues with care... another important point... he made this decision... what the failure... no support of the troops... never send a soldier out without back up... and reinforcement... this is the problem with this war... it is as if.. . this administration is sending troops out just to keep the people angry... the war is oil and oil control means controlling the U.S... the question... why would Americans believe that a slimy substance could control their home... why would American allow others to tell them that this miss is needed to keep this nation safe... as Thomas Jefferson once supported that a revolt is need every 75 y ears... we are not technical challenged nation... we have other means in getting around... history will take his campaign slogan that he does not change his mind... his un moveable... he hates negative opinions about himself... then he should not have become president... the story about running a car into a garage door... because of something said that he did not like... this is the President... he did made a decision... on Iraq... after all they threaten his daddy... there is nothing wrong with him loving his daddy... but threats happens like this goes with the office... that is why the secret service is in business... he needed not to place those that he had sworn to protect in danger unnecessary... this action is more than recklessness... it was a deception... More like G.W.'s deception...

The other issue... “... oriental characteristic... ” is an inviolable, and taboo term... offensive for people of Asian descent... diversity training...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LUNAGODDESS

I lost an Uncle in the Korean War...he died of a lost of blood...Lost a brother in the Vietnam conflict and a few uncles( some still have the ring of ears they were asked to collect) and cousin came home with mental illnesses and the government has shown little attention to the issues...a brother in law in the gulf war and cousins I had yet to meet are now crisis in the middle east...most important for everyone to remember who dead and give up their mental state...for the right to strive for perfection...

Canada participated in *South African - Boer War 1899-1902;World War1 1914-1919;World War 2 1939-1949;Korean War (Conflict) 1950-1953“Canada's role in the First World War and her 60,000 dead had earned her the right to” place any delegation at the peace table...so why are we not hearing something from Canada ...it is true what is best for the United States is best for its bordered nations...if someone sends a dirty bomb this direction Canada and Mexico will feel it...?
*http://www.rootsweb.com/~canmil/siberia/siberia5.htm

We should have we learned something from these wars...the enemy must be made clear...in this conflict... the enemy sometimes feels like ourselves...

I do feel that the west has placed method of poverty as a way of controlling a population... keeping them passive to the controlling authority issues which are: hating anything communist or socialist even through we have taken some of these ideas and melt them into our society (social security and kindergarten)...skin coloring and hair texture...

poverty was created by the imperialist stand of the west...poverty creates despair and hopelessness... and it also creates a servitude bond to who ever offers a way out of the condition...of poverty...you have people willing to die instead of being bonded to servitude ...

For example, within the minorities in the U.S....very few people in the world community respect American minorities due to the fact that the ruling body has so disgraced and demeaned them.
Israel needs to keep none Zionist employed and Iraq’s need to keep certain Muslims or Moslem groups suppressed ...for what? ...for all nations wants a suppressive minority group like America...after all it is a fashionable statement...every one wants a big dog...

if a nation desires to be ruled under the authority of the west they will have to stand behind or underfoot of the west’s authority.
And if the west wants to give a relief...it is marked by the bill of rights. voters rights for minorities in America (in under a time table and must be brought back to the table to be reexamined so many decades
...if you are of...Euro heritage no such legislation exist...that gives time tables and reexamination...of a Euro right...

If there is to be peace there must be a cleaning up of one’s own neighborhood. Then the United States will sing we have overcome...we have over came it’s years/century of bondage and needing of this servitude attitude ... righteous movement...until that comes this bronze statue with a clay base...will all ways be recognize as such and treated as such...

Building a nation on hate (which is representative of clay)... there will be no peace...and no peace will exist in the middle east as long as they have an understanding that no nation with a weak leader...mark... an apology is necessary to give to world for the missed - guided action of our ancestors...

...the problem is false teachers of the faith on both sides... these people do not care whom they hurt

...the U.S. has it evangelical right also...starting with the religious leaders telling the population the world needs to be under the direction of Euro America and if no one sees it that way they need to die...prove wrong

...religion plays a role in humanity destruction...what is at the end of revelation and what are we to do with the religionist text once the prophecy had been fulfilled...throw them into the lake of fire...if a nation is ready to throw all religionist text into a lake of fire then we will see the beginning of heaven on earth...

just an opinion...

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very few people in the world community respect American minorities due to the fact that the ruling body has so disgraced and demeaned them.


This is absolutely untrue. The outside world (!) does not rely on the media or the govermnent for their information an dopinions, to suggest that it does is demeaning to everyone who is not American is as opprobrious as it is unaccurate. Get out of that Yankeee Bubble.

Non-Americans do not all live in the stone age, in mud huts, caves, or swamps, grubbing for a living in the dirt and unaware of what is going on in the world. The 'outside' world is extremely well educated, can spell better than Americans, is more informed of global; katters, and is more savvy than you gove them credit for.

Someone's eyes need to be opened much wider to see the world as it really is and not as described in the "Dead Man's Gulch Reporter" newspaper.


M:)RGANITE



.

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Originally Posted by Morganite

[I]

Non-Americans do not all live in the stone age, in mud huts, caves, or swamps, grubbing for a living in the dirt and unaware of what is going on in the world.

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Unfortunately, most non-American alies do!

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Originally Posted by bhayne

Unfortunately, most non-American alies do!!

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You are either mad or ignorant if you believe that. That has to be the silliest thing I have ever heard.




BTW - all allies have to be 'non-American.'



You will provide a lits of the mud hut dwellers, yes?