The problem is not the substance but the people who use them .I have seen first hand that those that want to(use drugs) will.Whether its alcohol or gold paint or cough syrup people will always find a way to get there hands on something to make them feel good and get hooked. They can be helped if they want to be but this so called war on drugs is a sham at best as only the least of us ever goes to jail and the ones with the planes and boats and laundry go on as usual. A street hustler doesn't know anyone in Afghanistan and that's the biggest link in the chain so legalize it or get the real dope dealers in jail and not just the low level pusher. Hmm.. Wonder why Bush hasn't burned any poppy plants even though he sent a bunch of troops to Afghanistan! Where do you think that dope is going to end up? War on drug? Somebodies laughing all the way to the bank!:cool: :rolleyes:

If anyone thinks drugs should be legal in their country should go to Amsterdam and stay for a couple of weeks. Take your kids to **** park and see if you want them to play on the swing set. Not a real pretty site!

Hello:

Well of course, magprob thinks drugs should be illegal. His income is dependent on it. He's a probation officer for crying out loud. If drugs were legalized, he'd actually have to find meaningful work.

excon

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

I have just read where Mexico votes to legalize small amounts of cocaine, heroin and marijuana.

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This is absolutely amazing!

I didn't think there was anyone still IN Mexico!

Magprob is retired and has been for some time now. He has a thriving log home restoration business in Idaho and works every day. Watch those bum raps there Mr. Excon. I do work in Seattle from time to time.
Personally, I think pot should be legalized... it's good stuff. Not to mention all of the by products we could be using. The oil alone will fuel a car. As far as meth, I think it is evil and anyone that doesn't, is just ignorant. Same for crack and herion. But above all, I think if you want to do drugs it's all right with me. Kind of like natural selection... stupid people kill themselves off... hopefully before they have a chance to breed. That is the best case scenario.

The by products derived from hemp is not even the smokable, get high plant. It is too bad it is not legal as there are so many valuable uses for it.
The gov't will not legalize it probably for that reason.
It is so sad to see someone take a drug for a good time and they are hooked and their life changes, never to be the same. It becomes their main focus, when can I get my next fix, next joint. When I finish I will grab a 6 pack. I deserve it, I have worked hard for this. I have seen someone work so hard for their money, only to use it for an addiction. Truly sad

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello:

I respectfully disagree with Cgirl, and ANY of you drugwarriors out there.

What I DON'T disagree with, is the devastation methamphetamine causes in peoples lives. However, the drug war hasn’t kept it out of anybody’s hands either. Therefore, I suggest that all drugs be RE-legalized, regulated so that they stay out of the hands of children, and taxed heavily to pay for the burden drug use puts on society.

Exactly like cigarettes!!! However, cigarettes kill 10 times as many people as ALL the illegal drugs put together, and that includes people killed in drug crime.

Do I think legalization would solve the drug problem? Yes! About 90% of it, anyway. About 10% is caused by addiction. The other 90% is caused by the justice system.

Most importantly, legalization would do a much better job of keeping drugs OUT of the hands of children, than we are doing now. THAT is where our enforcement should be concentrated on, - NOT adults. In this country, if you want to stay high all day, you should be free to do it.

Please don’t misunderstand me, drugwarriors, I said a drug user should be free to stay high - not free to STEAL to stay high. But of course, if drugs were legalized, a user wouldn’t have to STEAL to stay high.

excon

PS> Oh, I suppose there are those of you out there who are going to say that if we legalize drugs then there will be an explosion of drug use. I say, bahh. In my experience, people who have a propensity to use drugs, are in fact, using drugs. I don’t know anybody who is just waiting to dive into the drug world, who isn’t already there. Look around in your life. Do you know anybody? No, you don’t. Pot smokers??? They’re ALREADY smoking pot.

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Also if you are a strong willed person and know how to control drugs, everything in moderation.
Don't LET THE DRUGS CONTROL YOU, YOU CONTROL THE DRUGS ;)

Some people were brought up around drugs and weren't given a choice, their father or mother said to them "here, try this, this will allow you to bond with me" and then boom, they are hooked on coke or crack, or whatever it was. There are a lot of recovering drug addicts out there, and if we legalized those hard drugs, it would be that much harder for them. Think about the people who HAVE turned there life around and are no longer using. Imagine if you could get coccaine at your local convenient store. The results would be devastating. Recovering addicts stay away from the people they did drugs around for a reason, because if t hey are still around the stuff, they will likely do it. Plus, curious children DO try drugs, and Cocaine and Crack can hook you just like that. I think it is ridiculous to say we should legalize those drugs.

Cgirl,
You do give really valid points actually.

I don't think it would be ever possible to legalize Class A drugs, but I think Class C such as marijuana, should be legalised. I think that way the law enforcement can deal with dealers who sell harder drugs such as herione or crack.

I agree totally Krs. They should legalize Marijuana, but not hard drugs.

Quote:

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PS> Oh, I suppose there are those of you out there who are going to say that if we legalize drugs then there will be an explosion of drug use. I say, bahh. In my experience, people who have a propensity to use drugs, are in fact, using drugs. I don’t know anybody who is just waiting to dive into the drug world, who isn’t already there. Look around in your life. Do you know anybody? No, you don’t. Pot smokers?? They’re ALREADY smoking pot.

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It's RESPONSIBILITY - and it could reduce the crime rate. I've worked with a lot of kids that got their first joint in school - as a fad. It's just as bad to think of dealing 'small' while still in school. Eliminate this and the 'kick' will vanish (I hope).

I also live across the border from Holland, and they seem to have it in as much control as possible to me.

Hard drugs should be gotten rid of completely - but that's a dream that's probably not going to happen - as long as there is a market.

We can at least have a little control over, and use the taxes gained - just as in tobacco.

Maybe we can work on getting potential dealers off the street.

As far as those that consume and run into a drug test, that will never change - and it's up to them to curb themselves.

Hello again:

It is not unfair to point out that some people may have reasons, OTHER than their conscience, guiding their support for the drug war. People, who's income is dependent on the drug war (cops, prosecutors, jailers, etc.), fall into that category. That's just so.

In addition, I do INDEED, think there is more meaningful work, than that of arresting, prosecuting, imprisoning, and supervising upon their release, people who use or sell drugs.

That's an opinion. You may not agree. That's fine. But it is, absolutely, a fair argument.

excon

If they didn't arrest tweakers and junkies they would be crawlin around your property and mine at all hours of the night stealing anything they could get their hands on. I see them all the time on ten speeds with a flash lights cruising up and down the alleys. If all they want to do is dumpster dive, well I guess that's OK, but, I've had stuff come up missing and I know it was tweakers, AKA Vampires, doing it. Arresting people for pot is a waste of time... I'll go that far with you but junkies and tweakers are a completely different breed of cat... one me and most other people want controlled and out of our hair.

I think the root of the problem lies within our govt. and how we are so focused on everything else that we don't pay attention to the war within this country
I have lost many friends to drugs
I know this war first hand
My husband's father is a cocaine addict

How can we as a country expect people with addictions to stop when we throw them back onto the streets where they came from, where they are surrounded by the things that made them start in the first place, granted, doing drugs is a choice, but some children don't even have a chance. I think people who sell drugs are murderers. They know it, and they don't care. They are selling something that they know will effect everyone including the person who bought it. They are ruining lives. They should get just as stiff of a penalty as a murderer in my opinion.

Hello Cgirl:

>>>How can we as a country expect people with addictions to stop when we throw them back onto the streets where they came from,<<<

I agree, absolutely! However, imagine the possibilities. The taxes I suggest would pay for treatment on demand. You cannot change just part of the equation. It must be changed from one end to the other. Think of it. Treatment on demand for anybody with any addiction.

>>>I think people who sell drugs are murderers. They are selling something that they know will effect everyone including the person who bought it. <<<

Illegal drugs are priced high because the dealer thinks he should be highly rewarded for committing felony's. If drugs were legalized, the street dealer would be OUT of business. The price would drop precipitously. He couldn't compete with the convenience store on the corner.

By the way, why don't you think the guy selling cigarettes in your corner bodega is a murderer? The cigarettes he sells kills 10 times as many people as all the illegal drugs combined do. I don't think cigarettes are good either, but in a free society they should be available, and that's as it should be. Adults should be able to make the choice to stay high or smoke cigarettes if they want to. Children are a different matter.

>>>but some children don't even have a chance<<<

The drug war has been going on for 50 years. Billions and billions of dollars have been spent. Thousands and thousands of years have been served in prison. Countless families have been destroyed. And yet, what you say is still true today, just as it was when we started the drug war. Don't you think it might be time to try something new?

excon

I do not see legalizing drugs wouild take care of the drug problem. There should be more money spent on rehabilitation than prisons. I am not saying they should not go to prison, but prison has become a big business. There has got to be some rehabilitation. You can get drugs in prison so life does not change for most of those people. The war on drugs has certainly not worked, so it seems time to look for alternative answers.
I agree people who sell drugs should be accountable for anyone who dies as a result of their drug. Maybe that is what the next lawsuits should be about. Targeting drug dealers. Sue them in civil court and then they should be tried for murder criminally. Do you think that would change their mind. But if the government continues to do what they do now, by letting them go free IF they become an informant and get the guys that work for them put away, that would not help either. The justice system needs to get serious about getting the actual "king pins".

That is my soap box, I have had my heart broken by death by drugs.

I have seen so many people go through the "latest, greatest treatment program" and then fail. It does not work with Meth. I am sorry... it just does not work. How do I know? Being a retired probation officer in a town where I still see my old clients (and read the obituaries) and the fact that my very own Son is one. When a person does meth, they lay their life on the Roulette table. Very few just play with it then leave it be. Most deal with it for the rest of their lives. And for most of them, that is a shortend version of their original life. Meth is poison and if people can't leave it alone on their own then someone needs to step in and do it for them. I say we increase the tax on your cigarettes but not my beer ( :D ) and then hire even more DEA agents. That way, these poor souls will stop climbing my backyard fence and quit stealing my chickens, lawn mowers, chain saws and my ice chests full of beer that I forgot to put in for the night! :mad:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chery

It's RESPONSIBILITY - and it could reduce the crime rate. I've worked with a lot of kids that got their first joint in school - as a fad. It's just as bad to think of dealing 'small' while still in school. Eliminate this and the 'kick' will vanish (I hope).

I also live across the border from Holland, and they seem to have it in as much control as possible to me.

Hard drugs should be gotten rid of completely - but that's a dream that's probably not going to happen - as long as there is a market.

We can at least have a little control over, and use the taxes gained - just as in tobacco.

Maybe we can work on getting potential dealers off the street.

As far as those that consume and run into a drug test, that will never change - and it's up to them to curb themselves.

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Totally agree, I've been to amsterdam twice and its laws and regulations seem so much under control compared to some other countries.

I still believe legalising Class C drugs would reduce crime and drug rates.
Besides smoking marijuana is just as harmful as smoking cigarettes, its not the marijuana itself that's harmful really it's the tobacco put in it. So I don't see a problem once you can buy cigarettes from anywhere with no problems at all.

I agree Meth is poison. It definitely is hard to get off, yet not impossible. I have seen programs that work, people that are clean. It is like any other addicition, it only works if you want it to work. If you continue to hang around others with addictions, you are going to stay in the gutter rut. One can always justify, oh just one hit, everyone does it. We all know alcoholics that do the same thing. They will justify it and find someone who will do it with them and help them justify that it is OK. There is more than just taking an addiction away from any addict. They have to learn to live their life differently and not trade one addiction for another, have support from family and friends, clearly understanding what it does to yourself and others.
I have seen it work and I have seen it fail. It is an epidemic and even if we can do something to save 1/4th or 1/3rd of the addicts, wouldn't it be worth it?
It has got to be expensive putting all of these people in prison again and again.

Magpro, it sounds like you were in law inforcement, how much does it cost to house an inmate?

Hello again:

If were going to have a discussion about drugs, let's at least keep it to the facts. Tobacco kills 450,000 people, in this country alone, every year. Marijuana never killed anybody - ever. There is NO tobacco in marijuana - none.

If there are any other drug myths you want debunked, just ask.

excon

PS> Some European pot smokers, at the consumer level, DO mix tobacco with their joints. What a revolting thing to do.