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Originally Posted by Dark_crow

Why does someone refuse to work, isn’t that what people on a union strike do. Has it ever occurred to you that ‘Something” in their life may have influenced them…like their upbringing and schooling?

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Pardon me, I didn't know I had to make an allowance for every single possibility for the reason someone might be poor or not working. Forgive my ignorance for thinking you would see beyond the obvious distinctions between someone who is striking because of unfair labor conditions and someone who's sense of entitlement gets in the way of actually achieving something. I must be some sort of dumb@ss. :rolleyes:

Of course the "something" can be lack of education and lack of opportunity, which would be something that was beyond their control. I believe I said those are the people I want to help. YUP! Sure did!

I think America should become a full communist society where everyone is equal (accept your leaders of course) and stop draining other countries of their natural resources. That would end your poor problem as well.

Because communism has worked so well for other countries, Greg?

I am one of the poorer people in the USA and live in the hood. I have four grown kids and we lived on less than $1,000. A month when they were little and I am not doing much better now. I KNOW what you mean as far as like what jillb said the lazy ones that act like they are owed everything and waste what they do get (especially on drugs), BUT there are people like me that work really hard and try to get their goal of getting ahead and getting out of the hood and even helping others. It seems though the harder I try the farther behind I get and I have very little help to NO help with much of anything.

Yes, Greg. It's true. Poverty doesn't seem like such a problem when EVERYONE is poor. Just ask any immigrant who grew up in the Soviet Union during the period of 1920-1990 what it was like and how effective it was at fighting poverty. And of course the Soviets never invaded any other country in oder to steal their natural resources...

Elliot

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Originally Posted by Greg Quinn

I think America should become a full communist society where everyone is equal (accept your leaders of course) and stop draining other countries of their natural resources. That would end your poor problem as well.

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No type of Government can run an economy efficiently; the Soviet Union showed that, it left a lot to be desired. On the other hand the grinding poverty and the disenchantment and misery it generates show just as clearly that a capitalist alternative is no Utopia. That is precisely why I advocate a free market.:)

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Originally Posted by jillianleab

Pardon me, I didn't know I had to make an allowance for every single possibility for the reason someone might be poor or not working. Forgive my ignorance for thinking you would see beyond the obvious distinctions between someone who is striking because of unfair labor conditions and someone who's sense of entitlement gets in the way of actually achieving something. I must be some sort of dumb@ss. :rolleyes:

Of course the "something" can be lack of education and lack of opportunity, which would be something that was beyond their control. I believe I said those are the people I want to help. YUP! Sure did!

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I said what I did in hopes of showing how naïve it is to refer to those people who do not want to work…how do you separate them from someone who wants to work…on what basis can you make that judgment?

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Originally Posted by Dark_crow

I said what I did in hopes of showing how naive it is to refer to those people who do not want to work…how do you separate them from someone who wants to work…on what basis can you make that judgment?

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DC, I know why you made the statement. And surely you are intelligent enough to know that I was not referring to someone who WANTS to work and cannot but rather someone who CHOOSES not to work. By "chooses" I mean, "I can't work at McDonald's! It's McDonald's!" or, "Nah, the gubment will send me more money if I get pregnant again, I don't need a job" or, "Why should I work? The gubment has lots of money, they OWE me" I made a quick, broadbased post. I did not take the time to spell out my "plan" because I assumed those reading my post would be able to infer the differences mentioned above. I am not putting out a campaign speech, so why must I make every single post a thorough as possible and assume I am talking to someone who can't make logical assumptions?

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Originally Posted by N0help4u

I am one of the poorer people in the USA and live in the hood. I have four grown kids and we lived on less than $1,000. a month when they were little and I am not doing much better now. I KNOW what you mean as far as like what jillb said the lazy ones that act like they are owed everything and waste what they do get (especially on drugs), BUT there are people like me that work really hard and try to get their goal of getting ahead and getting out of the hood and even helping others. It seems though the harder I try the farther behind I get and I have very little help to NO help with much of anything.

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So from that I can only conclude that something is awfully wrong with the system of government intervention. When a person can work hard for a lifetime and not get ahead something must be terribly wrong with the system of economics. Your situation is not unique, you are not an aberration, and you are like 40% of the population. Just who is taking from whom?:) :)

[QUOTE=Dark_crow]... something is awfully wrong with the system of government intervention. QUOTE]

Could it be that the government is intervening incorrectly? I'm not saying whether they should or shouldn't, that's a whole different discussion. But since they are intervening, are they doing it properly?

[QUOTE=kindj]

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Originally Posted by Dark_crow

...something is awfully wrong with the system of government intervention. QUOTE]

Could it be that the government is intervening incorrectly? I'm not saying whether they should or shouldn't, that's a whole different discussion. But since they are intervening, are they doing it properly?

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Welfare is a complete disaster; a form of government intervention. Conservatives today like to blame it on the liberals, but the truth of the matter is that intervention is what I term a “New conservative” policy. The ‘Old conservative’ was not interested in government intervention; they wanted to conserve only two things… liberty and free trade. They believed in the free market as a creative mechanism to improve society which presupposes that people prefer life to death, health to sickness … abundance to poverty. That is one reason why I cannot adopt the theory that there are a great many people who do not want to work. So yes, they are not only wrong to begin with, but doing it wrong too.

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Originally Posted by Dark_crow

I said what I did in hopes of showing how naive it is to refer to those people who do not want to work…how do you separate them from someone who wants to work…on what basis can you make that judgment?

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Basically there lifestyle! While I am trying to make money and get ahead and doing right by my family I look around me and watch the other single moms staying home and selling drugs to buy their own drugs. Selling their foodstamps to buy even more drugs. Then expecting other naighbors to feed and cloth their kids. They scream at their kids and don't know how to treat them. They have a new boyfriend every other month. When they do work it is long enough to get some Earned Income Credit then they quit. They act like everybody owes them and what they ARE given they waste. Have no direction, ambition or goals, etc...

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Originally Posted by Dark_crow

Do you believe they are a cancer on our society, bleeding our resources, polluting our urban landscape and threatening our security?


What can be done politically to rid America of this abomination; the poor who are feckless, hopeless, lacking self-worth, motivation and any common levels of decency. We cannot afford to let them breed another generation of their kind.

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1] no, from a Christian point of view, Matthew 25 about the sheep and the goats.

2] if you look at the census statistics
PROMOTE TRADITIONAL Marriage
To go along with this - get your education,high school at the very least
- don't have children before 20
- don't get married before 20

Family-Unfriendly Policies - US News and World Report

3] are the "poor" really poor?
They can get medicaid, subsidized housing, childcare, education grants etc.
There is no incentive to work a min wage job if you lose these 'benefits'

Can the working middle class get these?

4] get deadbeats to pay for their children -last I look the support rate was only 50%.
And have this money go directly to housing, utilities, school, health ins premiums
Rather than to the custodial parents bank acoount.

There should be equality of opportunity , but it is up to the individual to work hard for the results.







Grace and Peace

[QUOTE=Dark_crow]

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Originally Posted by kindj

Welfare is a complete disaster; a form of government intervention. Conservatives today like to blame it on the liberals, but the truth of the matter is that intervention is what I term a “New conservative” policy. The ‘Old conservative’ was not interested in government intervention; they wanted to conserve only two things… liberty and free trade. They believed in the free market as a creative mechanism to improve society which presupposes that people prefer life to death, health to sickness … abundance to poverty. That is one reason why I cannot adopt the theory that there are a great many people who do not want to work. So yes, they are not only wrong to begin with, but doing it wrong too.

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I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you, but it sounds like you've given this some thought.

If you had the ability to change it, what would you do?

(Seriously asking, not sarcasm)

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Originally Posted by N0help4u

Basically there lifestyle! while I am trying to make money and get ahead and doing right by my family I look around me and watch the other single moms staying home and selling drugs to buy their own drugs. Selling their foodstamps to buy even more drugs. Then expecting other naighbors to feed and cloth their kids. They scream at their kids and don't know how to treat them. They have a new boyfriend every other month. When they do work it is long enough to get some Earned Income Credit then they quit. They act like everybody owes them and what they ARE given they waste. Have no direction, ambition or goals, etc...

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When you enter a drug addicted person into the equation you enter something outside the norm of what constitutes someone who does not want to work. That is much closer to using the mentally ill as a norm.

[QUOTE=kindj]

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Originally Posted by Dark_crow

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you, but it sounds like you've given this some thought.

If you had the ability to change it, what would you do?

(Seriously asking, not sarcasm)

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In spite of what’s been said I think one good thing that is now being done, at least where I live, and that is a single mom with a child over 7 must get a job. If they don’t get a job they must go to the welfare office and spend the day applying for work and show proof of applications. They must spend 40 hours a week doing this and they are sent to work part of the time with agencies selected by the welfare department who pays them minimum wage. At one time for each dollar earned one dollar was deducted from the welfare income of a recipient. That only made the recipient work for less. However now for one dollar earned only 50 cents is withheld from welfare income. There in now an incentive to work and a time frame for the recipient to get ahead.

Kindj, I would not know where to start frankly…I’m afraid my hindsight is much better than my foresight. :) :)

I hate the rich. I just cannot wait for total anarchy so we can bar-b-que the bastards and eat them. You know they must be tender and tasty. I'll eat their livers with fava beans and a nice Chianti. Paris Hilton is too skinny to eat. Make jerky out of her.

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Originally Posted by Dark_crow

a single mom with a child over 7 must get a job.

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What if the child is handicapped? What is the mother is handicapped? What if it's a single dad? What about people who don't have kids? What about when there are no jobs the person is qualified for?

Just bustin' your you-know-whats! :p :D

I was being a little sarcastic in my post. But I would like to think a semi communist star-Trek type of western society could be possible one day. Of course that is just a dream... Also I am a geek, and it's not very likely the way things are going, maybe I should wait for god and government?

I am sorry, but I can't believe I have just read such a spitfull nasty point ov view, How about people who hate rich people! Maybe this would be a better topic!!