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-   -   Yet another "closet flange is too high, what to do" question (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=10278)

  • Jun 14, 2005, 10:02 AM
    PTflyer
    Yet another "closet flange is too high, what to do" question
    OK... let me first say thanks again for all the prior help.

    What's there:
    Concrete floor
    3" cast iron
    Lead pipe connecting closet flange to closet el
    Brass closet flange will end up at 1" over fininshed floor...


    Ok... so I used a small, sharp screw driver and hammer and worked the inisde edge of the lead away from the flange... I slipped the flange down to the top of the concrete...

    Now what do I do... do I just re work the lead around the inside of the flange until it's as tight as I can get it, working the edge over the lip of the flange, then trim off the excess?

    Or do I have to solder that lead inside edge to the flange..

    I couldn't tell when prying if it was just hammered or also soldered...


    Thanks again for all your help
  • Jun 15, 2005, 09:31 AM
    speedball1
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by PTflyer
    ok.....let me first say thanks again for all the prior help.

    whats there:
    Concrete floor
    3" cast iron
    Lead pipe connecting closet flange to closet el
    Brass closet flange will end up at 1" over fininshed floor.....


    Ok.........so I used a small, sharp screw driver and hammer and worked the inisde edge of the lead away from the flange.......I slipped the flange down to the top of the concrete....

    Now what do I do.........do I just re work the lead around the inside of the flange until it's as tight as I can get it, working the edge over the lip of the flange, then trim off the excess?

    Or do I have to solder that lead inside edge to the flange...?

    I couldn't tell when prying if it was just hammered or also soldered.....


    thanks again for all your help


    What you are talking about is called a "wiped joint". That's when you wipe solder between two lead fittings of a brass fitting. That's a lost art. We had to wipe a joint back in the 50's when I sat for my license but I don't know about today. Looking back in the file I set up for you I wish you had contacted me before you poured cement. I would have advised you to convert to PVC from the cast iron bend. Too late now.
    First you must secure the flange to the floor and then flare the lead over the flange. The flange will tie the bowl to the floor,( that's its only purpose) and the wax seal will seal the connection. If you need more insurance you may epoxy the flared lead to the flange. Good luck. Tom
  • Jun 15, 2005, 09:56 AM
    PTflyer
    Thanks tom... there is plenty of lead riser for me to work it back over the brass flange, and as you said the wax seal will keep it from leaking.
    I thought it would be OK if I just hammered the lead back over, just wanted to be sure.


    I would have mentioned it sooner but didn't realize until after the pour that this would now be a problem but probably should have thought about switching over to PVC also.

    Live and learn... :D


    Thanks again...
  • Jun 19, 2005, 12:11 AM
    penandpaper
    Flange May Be Too Low
    I don't know how to post a question, so I'm just going on this thread and crossing my fingers.

    I've discovered that not only is my flange level to the floor, it doesn't even rest on top of the floor -- they are flush to one another. I've read that the flange should always rest on the floor so as to take the weight of the toilet on the floor and not the soil pipe.

    Right not, the floor is plywood on top of subfloor. I'm planning to lay down a self-leveling mortar (or thinset) to even everything up, then lay down a water shield, then tile. (I got the self-leveling and water shield stuff at Home Depot, where it was suggested that you use these things together.)

    Question, should I simply tile the entire plywood surface, then use a flange extender? I saw that there is a plate-like device you can buy when the hole in the floor is too large and the flange does not rest on it -- should I do that, then tile around it and then add an extender? My pipe and flange are cast iron.

    Thanks so much!
  • Jun 19, 2005, 06:50 AM
    speedball1
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by penandpaper
    I don't know how to post a question, so I'm just going on this thread and crossing my fingers.

    I've discovered that not only is my flange level to the floor, it doesn't even rest on top of the floor -- they are flush to one another. I've read that the flange should always rest on the floor so as to take the weight of the toilet on the floor and not the soil pipe.

    Right not, the floor is plywood on top of subfloor. I'm planning to lay down a self-leveling mortar (or thinset) to even everything up, then lay down a water shield, then tile. (I got the self-leveling and water sheild stuff at Home Depot, where it was suggested that you use these things together.)

    Question, should I simply tile the entire plywood surface, then use a flange extender? I saw that there is a plate-like device you can buy when the hole in the floor is too large and the flange does not rest on it -- should I do that, then tile around it and then add an extender? My pipe and flange are cast iron.

    Thanks so much!

    " I've read that the flange should always rest on the floor so as to take the weight of the toilet on the floor and not the soil pipe."
    NOT SO! The sole purpose of the flange is to secure the toilet from moving and to hold the horn of the bowl tight against the closet bend.
    The weight of the bowl is distributed on the floor by the base. Actually you don't need a flange at all. Two screw type closet bolts mounted on the floor would do just as well.
    If your flange is level with the plywood floor and you mud and tile the plywood floor that will put the flange a tad lower the tile floor level. If this bothers you a wax seal with a funnel is available for situations such as yours. In short if this were my call I would install my toilet on the existing flange without any changes or modifications. Good luck, Tom
  • Jun 19, 2005, 10:33 PM
    penandpaper
    Hmmm
    Thanks, Tom for your reply. So, just because I want to do the right thing (and not deal with rotted sub-floor again), with the toilet being higher due to tile, will the horn still rest in the flange? A fix-it guy in the area suggested that I jut put the toilet back on the plywood floor, and tile around it! That seems kind of wonky to me.

    Any thoughts?
  • Jun 20, 2005, 06:17 AM
    speedball1
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by penandpaper
    Thanks, Tom for your reply. So, just because I want to do the right thing (and not deal with rotted sub-floor again), with the toilet being higher due to tile, will the horn still rest in the flange? A fix-it guy in the area suggested that I jut put the toilet back on the plywood floor, and tile around it! That seems kinda wonky to me.

    Any thoughts?


    Yes, the horn will extend down past the flange and a wax ring with a funnel will insure that the discharge is directed into the closet bend. Setting the toilet and then the tile isn't the way we go about it here. It will look much more professional if you tile first and then set the toilet. Good luck, Tom

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