I have been in this apartment 6 months and have never been able to have a warm shower longer than 3 minutes. I told my landlord and he replaced the water heater. But that didn't solve the problem. So he had a plumber come over and the plumber said maybe the water heater was defective. But then he said he was able to fill the bathtub before the hot water ran out so there is no problem with the water heater. What else could it be? My landlord doesn't respond to my emails, calls, or letters about this now. I'm assuming he is not going to fix the problem so I thought maybe I could do it myself or hire my own plumber to do it. I would give anything for a 5 minute shower!

Do not replace the heater on your own. Can you raise the heater temperature? Under a plate screwed to the side of the tank you should find an adjustable thermostat, sometimes there isn't even a plate. Set the temp to the hotter side of hot. Be careful the first time your use the shower after this change. You would be safer to let the water run without getting into the shower.

The water heater was already replaced and I still do not get more than 3 minutes of hot water in the shower. I did try turning the temperature up on it but that didn't help either.

The shower has 3 different knobs- I don't know if that helps...

I meant you should not replace or reair yourself as a response to your "...I'm assuming he is not going to fix the problem so I thought maybe I could do it myself or hire my own plumber to do it. I would give anything for a 5 minute shower!" raising the temp should have made some difference? Three knobs; hot, cold and what?

We are talking a standard 30 gallon or larger tank? It is set for at least 120 degrees? Run the water until it gets cold. Go to the heater and drain some water out the drain in the bottom. If it is hot, some dip messed up the dip tube. There are ways of doing that. Hot water heaters have a plastic tube in the inlet that runs the incoming cold water to the bottom pushing the hot water on top out the outlet. Without it, the incoming cold water goes across the top and right out to your shower.

It should be an easy fix, remove the cold water line and insert a new tube. Being a rental, perhaps post to the forum on rentals before doing it yourself.

Was the plumber a real plumber?

It is a 40 gallon water heater. Yes, the plumber was a real plumber. :) He was the one who replaced the water heater after my first complaint of not enough hot water in the shower. Then I told him that I still wasn't getting more than 3 min hot water in the shower. He said it might be the dip tube but then he was able to fill the bathtub up before the water ran cool so he said the problem has nothing to do with the water heater. The 3 knobs are hot, cold, and the middle knob turns the showerhead on. I can only turn the cold side on just a little bit (if at all) or the water will only run cold even if I have the hot side turn on all the way. I have tried turning the temp on the water heater up nearly as high as it could go and that didn't make my hot water last any longer. It did make the water hotter at first, but as always the shower ran only ice cold water after 3 minutes.

There should not be any problem with a dip tube on a new heater unless he screwed it up. All though you say he was a plumber, it doesn't sound like he knows what is going on. The odd thing here is that you say he filled the tub with hot water without a problem. You should be able to get the same volume of water through the shower head. Someone else out there might see something we are all missing.

Sounds like a loose washer problem. As the plumber was filling the tub he had the hot side full open. As you are taking a shower you may have the hot partially open. As heat passes over that washer some washers expand. Try turning the hot on a bit more when it turns cold during the shower. If this works, have the landlord see what is happening so he can have the tub valve repaired.

Turn on the hot water tap only, turn the middle handle to make the water go to the shower head, oh just to be sure do not do this with someone in the shower. Use a timer and time how long it takes for the water to get cool. Most shower heads are 3 gallons a minute heads therefore you should get around twelve minutes of extremely hot water before it get cool. Just a thought and a place to start.

I will try these suggestions when I get home... the water from the shower head does flow really fast. Could a 40 gallon water heater empty in 3 minutes with a high flow shower head?

Hard to answer because how high is high but yes it can drain your tank in less than 10 minutes. There are many low volume heads out there, maybe time to try one. I have a low volume head and the efficiency is great.

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Originally Posted by lnz

I will try these suggestions when I get home.....the water from the shower head does flow really fast. Could a 40 gallon water heater empty in 3 minutes with a high flow shower head?

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That is 13.3 gallons a minute. I wonder if the drain would take it?
40 gallons of hot water should last 10 minutes at 4 gallons a minute. Longer if you are using partly cold. That is why I suggested checking the drain valve. Water heaters last longer if you occasionally run water out it. Tom frequently gives good instructions on it. If the water in the bottom is hot, and you only get cold in the shower and everywhere else, the dip tube is bad. If you get hot water elsewhere after the shower goes cold, follow Doug's idea of the loose washer. I thought the newer stuff all had cartridges, but maybe not. If it isn't too old and corroded, it is easy to pull the stem. Shut the water off, and for most 3 knob styles, pry the cap off, unscrew the screw, remove the knob, and unscrew the nut holding the insides. Inspect, clean, repair/replace. A good hardware will have cartridges to fit most brands and somebody to help you match the old one. I never go to Lowe's for stuff like that.

Well I attempted to remove the knobs but they are to old and corroded. I was able to fill up the bathtub with the shower head before the water ran cool. But the bathtub filled up in about 3 minutes... so I think what I'm going to do is install a low-flow shower head and maybe this will give me a couple more minutes of warm water in the shower. I have gone six months with short showers so I guess I can go 6 more. Then my lease will be up and I can move out of this place! It's an older buiding. Maybe built sometime in the 60s. The landlord does not take care of things and it's falling apart quickly. I just glad in 6 months it will no longer be my problem. Thanks for all of your suggestions.

One of the things about older plumbing was that you got lots of volume. In the new showers it seems like you got to run around in the shower if you want to get wet. Flow restrictions are good but a strong shower feels great. If you filled your tub in 3 minutes from a shower head you either got a small tub or a huge shower head on a very old shower valve. I am hesitant to believe a standard tub can even be filled in 3 minutes by any shower head.

You did verify you can get hot water elsewhere when the shower goes cold?

I hated renting and was glad to get into a house. There are ways of getting old stuff apart, but I resent doing what I am paying somebody else for.

I don't think my tub is smaller than normal sized tubs. I do love a good high pressure shower head but honestly this one is too much. If I turn the shower on all the way the water sprays so hard it hurts and water ends up all over the bathroom floor. I don't want a shower head that will produce only a trickle of water- just a normal flowing one that might give me an extra minute or two so I don't have to rinse my hair in ice cold water. :)

By the way- is there a good way to try and unscrew an old corroded screw without damaging the head?

Oh- no, I do not get hot water anywhere else when the shower goes cold.

On some of the older showers the arm is easily removed, some are not, some break in the wall. There is a tool to use if that happens. On some shower arms you can simply unscrew the head, on some the head has a ball on it and the whole shower arm must be replaced.
I would get a personal shower with a hose that has 3 settings.

Yes, mine is the kind of shower arm with the ball on the end. I thought I'd just get an adapter instead of replacing the whole shower arm. I didn't want to risk it breaking off in the wall. They do make adapters for this sort of thing, right?

[smilez]
I don't like those ball arms, I get rid of them [personal opinion]
It is most likely [but not garranteed] that you can unscrew the arm and replace the arm and the head. I am not aware of adapters, there may be.

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Originally Posted by lnz

snip....

By the way- is there a good way to try and unscrew an old corroded screw without damaging the head?

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Usually getting it out is more important than saving the head. You can replace it. However, destroying the head before you have it out is counterproductive. Some screws will not yield to a proper fitting, quality screwdriver. Heat works well on iron and steel. Even with them, I find hammering on things is often more quick. The trick is to hit stuff hard enough to distort it, but it still springs back without staying bent or breaking. When it moves, it breaks apart the rust, corrosion, lime, etc. holding it. A little spray lube helps too. I like silicone oil. I can use the same can to remove stuff and to lubricate things I don't want to gum up. It also doesn't swell rubber. The hammering opens up the joint long enough for the oil to wick in. You can put a good screwdriver with a tough plastic handle in the screw head and hammer on it. Often after a few minutes of that, the screw will back out. There are little hand impact tools that work great too. They take a bit or socket at one end and you hit the other end with a hammer. They twist when you hit them. Provides both the impact and the twist. If the head does strip or twist off without it coming loose, you can switch to a punch. Work at the edge pushing it in the way it unscrews. If the head twists off, you should be able to remove the knob. Then you can unscrew the assembly and carry it to your shop for further work if it is worth salvaging. A good hardware store is a better place for it. Match it to a new one. Note, hot and cold are not interchangeable. If the knob is worse for the wear or just old and shabby, they have new ones. It would gaul me to go through all that in a rental.

The above techniques will work on shower heads too. From your more recent posts, that sounds like where the problem is.

Turn the thurmastat on bottom of watter heater up to wite line

TRY RUNNING THE TAP AS WELL AS THE WATER HEATER noramlly the more flow the more the system pounds out the how water it could just be that the hot water system has like a ten litre capasity and won't work

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Originally Posted by pimpin

turn the thurmastat on bottom of watter heater up to wite line

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Along with the bad spelling,( we do have a spellcheck you know) she already stated she tried turning up the temperature in her post number three.
Pimpin, are you the same pimberman that I had to correct the two posts you put up in this page? If you are, I want you to know that your posts are being monitored by the mods for content. Check your posts for accuracy before hitting the send button. While "off the wall advice" my float in other pages such as relationships bad advice on this page can cost the asker big bucks and will not be tolerated. Having said that let me give you my take on why Inz can't take more then a three minute shower before the hot water runs out.
As a rule the lower element would fall under suspicion but since this is a new installation I can see only one explanation and it's not the water heaters fault.
What I thinki happened is that instead of using brass nipples or heat traps the installer soldered in 3/4" male adapters directly to the inlets of the heater and piped from there instead of soldering a piece of copper pipe to the adapter before installing it. This put heat on the cold water inlet causing the flare on the plastic dip tube to melt allowing the tube to slip off the cold water inlet.
This allowed cold water to enter the upper part of the heater and begin to mix with the hot water instead of being diurected to the bottom where it would get heated. The longer she showered the more cold water got drawn up into the hot water line until that was all that was left after three minutes of draw.
The solution would be to remove the pipe coming out of the cold water inlet and replace the dip tube using the correct method. I've heard a bunch of reasons for "the three minute shower" but I don't think the shower head or the shower valve have anything to do with the problem. A bad lower eleiment or a failed dip tube is the only explanation and my bet's on the dip tube. Regards and pimberman/pimpin, you're being watched for content. Tom

Wow, speedball, you sure caught me by surprise. I think you may be right. I assumed that since a plumber installed the heater it must have been done correctly. I can't believe I missed that one. It seems so obvious too.

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Originally Posted by doug238

wow, speedball, ya sure caught me by surprise. i think you may be right. i assumed that since a plumber installed the heater it must have been done correctly. i can't believe i missed that one. it seems so obvious too.

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But this happened twice to two different tanks?

What are the odds of that happening?

If you read the initial posting, you'll see that the problem was present even before the tank was replaced.

If it were me, I would start with replacing the hot stem on the shower valve -- Some of the older Price Pfister stems were of a type that turned down a stainless steel sleeve with multiple o-rings that acted as guides and seals, when the o-rings finally went points up they would bunch up at the seat and seat washer and restrict the flow.

But this happened twice to two different tanks?
What are the odds of that happening? ( I'd say pretty damm good if the same plumber installed both of them. Betcha didn't thing of thawt!)

"If you read the initial posting, you'll see that the problem was present even before the tank was replaced. (I read it)

If it were me, I would start with replacing the hot stem on the shower valve -- Some of the older Price Pfister stems were of a type that turned down a stainless steel sleeve with multiple o-rings that acted as guides and seals, when the o-rings finally went points up they would bunch up at the seat and seat washer and restrict the flow." ( And then magically reset themselves for the next three minute shower)
I still say open up the cold water inlet and at least check the condition of the dip tube. Regards, Tom

Use extreme care when turning up the temperature. This can result in a very costly electric bill if other problems exist.

On original post... But then he said he was able to fill the bathtub before the hot water ran out so there is no problem with the water heater... may not be the dip tube

Hi Doug...

I don't think we'll ever know the answer here. As you know, this post goes back to 2007! Would be nice if LNZ returned, but doubtful... ;)

How have you been? Keepin' busy?

MARK

Please, Install Low Flow Shower Head (2.2 gln/m ). Have the plumber to recheck his installation. Unless you do so, this thread will go on, and on, and on...

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Originally Posted by Milo Dolezal

Please, Install Low Flow Shower Head (2.2 gln/m ). Have the plumber to recheck his installation. Unless you do so, this thread will go on, and on, and on.......

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In 2 or 3 days the installation will be past warranty (assuming the installer offered a warranty).

Had most of this week off, but was real busy for about 4 weeks. Enjoyed the break but rather have the work. Atlanta seems to be starting to recover but many are struggling bad. In my county, 500 businesses went bankrupt in 2008. I am just outside atlanta. The mood here is very cautous. [looking fer that spellcheck speedball was talking bout]

In my area: if my tenant doesn't have enough hot water to take showers - he will withhold the rent. Then, landlord jumps and solves the problem in no time.

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Originally Posted by doug238

had most of this week off, but was real busy for about 4 weeks. enjoyed the break but rather have the work. atlanta seems to be starting to recover but many are struggling bad. in my county, 500 businesses went bankrupt in 2008. i am just outside atlanta. the mood here is very cautous. [looking fer dat spellcheck speedball was talkin bout]

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Sorry to hear that, Doug. Situation is the same in my area...

I just read this entire thread from beginning to end (I know... I need a life). This is a good one with a lot of good information. The little tip about how to properly install the water heater (don't solder right at the inlet) is worth remembering for us amateurs.

BTW, spelll check workss automatically... underlines the misspelled wordds as you type.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by doug238

had most of this week off, but was real busy for about 4 weeks. enjoyed the break but rather have the work. atlanta seems to be starting to recover but many are struggling bad. in my county, 500 businesses went bankrupt in 2008. i am just outside atlanta. the mood here is very cautous. [looking fer dat spellcheck speedball was talkin bout]

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Things have slowed down a bit for us as well -- We're staying busy with some of the larger projects that were already in the pipeline, but the days of having our dance card filled up to six months in advance are pretty much a thing of the past.

I'll say one thing, though, competitive bidding has sure come back with a vengeance.:)

If you want to know how long the water should last according to the laws of physics use this page.
http://crazycalculations.com/water_tanks/index.php
Either the mains water is very cold, the hot water is not hot enough, the tank is too small or there is some weird problem with the hot and the cold mixing at the wrong point.

Sounds like a problem I've had recently. The problem turned out to be an issue with the diverter stem (the middle handle).
I replaced the diverter stem for my client and that solved the problem.

In response to Milo's answer even if you had a shower head that was a 5 gal.per min. head which is unlikely you would still get about an 8 min. Shower. Try replacing the diverter stem. You don't even have to shut the water off to the apartment. Just make sure the hot and cold are turned off in the shower.Remove the handle, trim piece, and stem. Take it to home improvement store, get another one and reverse your steps.