I have a trap from a first floor bathroom that is a few inches lower that the floor joist in the basement, in which I plan on installing drywall on the ceiling. Is this a common problem. How can I raise the trap so I don't have to install a soffit around the trap?

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A picture would really help. We also need to know how deep your floor joist is, size of the pipe and what is it connected to.

Attachment 48099

9" Floor Joist, 1-1/2" pipe comes from first floor shower

That trap can be raised but you will then have an issue with the horizontal pipe that tees to the drain after the trap. It currently tees in from the top, if you left it like that the pipe will have lost its slope. You'd have to make it tee in from the side. Have you done much solvent welding?

Aaaaaaa

hkstroud:

Regarding the method you described in red, are you saying to connect the trap to the top pipe (vent)? If so, can I just shorten pipe on right, and go right into vent, making the trap sit right above pex line? Doing so would require me to put a cap on pipe where trap used to run. I'm just wondering if there is a way to avoid cutting out big pipe against the wall. The wall I built is tight against the pipe, and I may have to take out wall in order to have room to work with pipe. I'm not really sure how vent pipe works?

Thanks so much for your help. This is very helpful.

Gotta put in my unprofessional and unsolicited two cents. I wouldn't dream of covering a bathroom trap. I wouldn't even put in a basement ceiling under a bathroom, period. So shoot me. (The plumbers here have always been nice but have shot me down on occasions... that's OK.)

Hkstroud is DEFINITELY not saying that...

I think I have another approach anyway... far easier (I hope). Here, simply cut the trap out... cut the horizontal pipe going into the trap so it leaves about 3/4" to 1" pipe coming out of the tee fitting. Now, purchase a PTRAP with a union fitting and a couple of 45 degree fittings... may even need a street trap adapter (also called a desanco fitting). Next, install the PTRAP right onto the cut pipe and rotate it into the wall so it isn't sticking into the room... install the 2 - 45 degree fittings to offset the vertical pipe to the tub drain pipe coming down out of the tub. Install a simple "spring loaded" access door in the ceiling for access to the trap if/when needed down the road.

This should be a simple job of offsetting the vertical pipe going to the tub drain... make sense?

Mark

Mark, I'm a little uncertain what you mean? So from the tee, there is a cut pipe (about 1") then what? A couple of 45s then the PTrap? How does the Ptrap get raised?

If I figure out a solution, I will install a access panel.

Thanks for your help

Would like to see what is in the next bay and a look from the side.

No, install PTRAP directly onto the 1" piece of pipe coming out of the tee fitting... this will not raise the PTRAP but by swinging the PTRAP into the wall (you'll have to cut the top plate of the wall) it takes it out of the room... NOW you install 2 45 degree fittings to offset the VERTICAL pipe going from the PTRAP to the tub drain assembly. This is by far the easiest solution...

Attachment 48108Attachment 48109Attachment 48110

hkstroud: Yes, I'm pretty sure the pipe in the second picture is a vent pipe.

Mark:

I don't know if the first picture was deceiving. Based on the new pictures, tell me if your idea still makes sense. I think if I connected the trap directly to the cut piece and spun it inward, I still think it would not be out of the way? Unless I'm still not understanding.

Thanks to everybody for all of the help.

Is this a tub wast or a shower waste?

Tub waste, for sure, Harold.

So the face of the tee fitting sits just about flush with the wall... ugh... my idea won't work here, sorry.

Because all fittings involved here are cemented together with no pipe in between fittings this means that WYE fitting in the large pipe will need to come out and a new wye will need to be installed. Here, the 90 coming off the wye will go almost tight up to the joist and then pick up vent pipe and PTRAP to finish up. That should raise your PTRAP high enough. The tee fitting for the vent will probably only come off the tub drain at a 20 degree angle, but that will be OK here as long it rolls above the centerline of the drain pipe.

Mark
Please check me out here.

If I understood, Harold... Breaks at least one code (sanitary tee fitting can't pick up PTRAP on the horizontal) or two (vent needs to roll above center line of drain pipe with PTRAP on it), but it would get the PTRAP up with little work and I'm sure the drain would work fine!

I wonder if an AAV is acceptable in his area? If it was legal (which I doubt)... sure would save a lot of work!

Quote:

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two (vent needs to roll above center line of drain pipe with PTRAP on it),

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That I understand. Granted I said the side port would be horizontal but it looks like there is enough room between the pipe and the floor that the tee could be rolled up to about 10 o'clock. That should get the vent above the center line.

Quote:

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sanitary tee fitting can't pick up PTRAP

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Don't understand

Just that plumbing code clearly states that there cannot be a tee fitting on the horizontal when it comes to drains... OK to pick up the vent (preferred), but not OK to pick up the ptrap... would need a wye fitting and that will def. not work here.

And the vent fitting would need to roll above the horizontal pipe with the trap on it. If I understood your explanation, the PTRAP would now come off the original vent pipe fitting... vent would need to come off that same pipe... not below and in front of the PTRAP.

As a plumber quoting code here, I don't see any choice but to cut out the wye fitting and repipe all if he wants to stay with code (unless, again, AAVS are allowed).

So I am still a little confused. Mark, it sounds like I have 2 options?

Option 1: Harold’s suggestion, which would be easier, but may not be up to code, but should still work.

Option 2: Mark’s suggestion which would be up to code, but involves more work.

If this is correct, let me make sure I understand Harold’s way.

Put a tee in vent pipe and point tee downward.
Attach 90 to new tee.
Make drain below the bath shorter, thus bringing up trap.
Reconnect Trap, and existing 90 to new 90, which comes off new tee.
Plug right end of existing larger tee.
(More or less, this will plumb trap to vent pipe.)
If this is what is meant, and you don’t think there will be issues, please let me know.

Thanks again everybody for all advice.

AAVs are not allowed in WI.

Also, because it can be hard to tell in pictures, the trap is only about 2" below the bottom of the joist.

OK, less of all evils here...

Simply cut the PTRAP off leaving 1" of pipe out of the tee fitting... now install two 45s to offset the pipe up and install PTRAP. It isn't exactly code, but all in all it is simplest, the vent will still contribute and you will be all set without a ton of work.

Aaaaaaa

Great back up on this, Harold! Team effort, as usual!

I think its odd that AAVs are not allowed in WI, but the installation demonstrated in the photos clearly shows a horizontal vent below the flood level of the bathtub - no code that I am aware of allows horizontal venting unless the vent is '' washed '' by another fixture, or in island sink installations - at least with island sink installs, the horizontal vent can be made accessible for rodding...

Been doing this same kind of venting all my life, Mike. I know what you are talking about (vent needs to be a minimum 6" above flood level rim before can offset horizontal), but toilets, tubs, and showers seem to be an exception to the rule... at least in Maine and Mass (and WI where this work got done) where I've done most of my work.

I think Paul is all set at this point!

Thanks

Mark,

Dry horizontal vents installed below the flood level of fixtures have the potential to become clogged; when this happens the vent will not prevent negative pressure. Although rare, I have witnessed several blocked horizontal vents and when there is no access, floors, walls & ceilings must be opened to make repairs.
We have always found a way to connect waste arms to a verticle vent, or, have the horizontal vent share space with a fixture drain...

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So, I just want to make sure that this is what Mark and Harold are talking about before I install.

Install 2 45s that I'm holding... reattach PTRAP and 90 to the 2 45s. Then shorten pipe coming out of shower.

Side note:(I'll install a new PTRAP with cleanout if there is enough clearance to do so.)

Because of how close the camera was to the pipes, things look distorted and it looks like things might not work, but if this is what was meant, I think I can make everything line up.

Again, thanks for all the help.

Attachment 48128
This is how it looks dry fit.
I won't be able to use the PTRAP with the cleanout, due to clearance. I'll have to go back and get another PTRAP because I can't change the angle of the original. If somebody gives me the OK that this shouldn't cause any major problems, I'll glue.

Thanks much.

That's OK, your old trap did not have a clean out either.

Should be OK, but before you glue look for clean out with a flush plug. I really like the idea of a clean out because of all the turns you have. You may be able to find a flush plug that fits the trap you have

Aaaaaaaaaaaaa

Paul, looks great... try to find a PTRAP with a union fitting... sold at all home improvement stores nowadays. The beauty of these is that if the PTRAP clogs or you need access to snake the drain you only need to loosen the union nut and the trap adapter nut (called a desanco) and pull the trap down entirely... makes snaking the drain super easy! See image

Attachment 48132

Mike, I have never worried about it in any way and I've never had an inspector even discuss it with me (and I have roughed in thousands of units... no exaggeration), so I'm not going to give it a second thought here! Anyway, I think Paul is all set now and I don't want him thinking this discussion has anything to do with his problem. Have a good day!

Attachment 48136Attachment 48135
So, I have everything glued, and everything works great.

I used the union fitting on the PTRAP so along with Union on pipe coming from shower drain, I will be able to remove and clean out PTRAP if I need to (after installing an access panel in the drywall)

I'm attaching original picture on left along with finished picture on right in case anybody else has the same problem.

A huge thank you to Mark, Harold, and anybody else who provided input. This was more of a problem than I thought it would be, but I think we found a simple solution that I think should work great.

Thank you, now I can move on to the rest of the basement.

Attachment 48132

Mike, I have never worried about it in any way and I've never had an inspector even discuss it with me (and I have roughed in thousands of units... no exaggeration), so I'm not going to give it a second thought here! Anyway, I think Paul is all set now and I don't want him thinking this discussion has anything to do with his problem. Have a good day![/QUOTE]

Mark,
The thing I enjoy most about this forum is the value of shared information that provides opportunities for learning, and I think you have an opportunity to educate your inspector(s) - take Pauls photos to him / her and challenge him to provide the section of code that allows dry horizontal venting below the flood level of any fixture...

Great job, guys. It was fun reading through this. As someone once said, "I love it when a plan comes together."

Is that a s-trap?