Ask Me Help Desk - Increase water pressure from a well

Increase water pressure from a well

Hello again, this is my third trip here, and both previous sessions were very helpful.

I've just purchased a new house that is supplied by a well. There is a pump at the bottom of the well (I see an electrical wire going toward the well head). The pipe from the well feeds into a pressure tank that has another pump attached to it.

The system works fine, except that the water pressure is too low. Showers are weak, especially on the upper floors. I notice the pressure increases slightly when the pump kicks on.

Is there a way to increase the pressure delivered to the house? Is the pressure delivered while the pump is on the max that this system will deliver? Would a larger tank help?

Thanks.

Glenn

Re: Increase water pressure from a well

Good morning, Would you be the same Glen I just helped out with a shower?
First locate the pressure control box. This will be a small 1 1/2" by 2 1/12" gray box the pump wires connect to.
I'm going to assume that you have a "square D pumptrol and that it has a 20 PSI cut in and a 40 PSI cut off setting, First turnoff the power at the breaker box, then pull the cover off the pressure switch and you will see two spring loaded bolts secured with nylon nuts. One tall, one short. To increase the cut in pressure, turn the nut on the tall bolt down. To increase the cut out pressure,(that's the one that will give you more pressure) turn the nut on the short bolt down. This should give you the additional preesure you desire. Good luck, Tom

Well water pressure

You were talking about the adjustments in the grey box, do you turn them both down to increase water pressure or just the short one? Also, how many turns do you recommend?

If you look back at Tom's post he mentions both screws. Turning the one will cause the pump to start before the pressure gets as low as it does. Turning the other will make it keep pumping until the pressure is higher. Turn them both up and the pump will still have a reasonable length cycle, but at a pressure that will deliver more water. Try turning them 4-5 turns, and see if that helps. If not, another 4-5 turns. A bigger tank would lengthen the cycle, but still have the same pressure range. You would need to do that if the pump is kicking on every few minutes while drawing water. You would also need to put in a bigger tank if when your are rapidly drawing water, the pressure drops too low.

Rapid cycling can also be caused by a lack of air in the tank. Most tanks now have a bladder in them to retain the air to prevent this. It could still be a problem with an older tank, or one where the bladder is bad.

Does you tank have a galvanized 4 way fitting on it? It could be limed up. Maybe remove the gage and look at it. If it is full of crud, take it clear out and knock all of it out. You may need a lime and rust cleanser.

Well water pressure

That really did the trick, thank you so much. 1 more question, Will this hurt the pump or bladder tank if it's turned up too much? My pressure gage on the pump is kicking on at 40psi and shutting off at 60 psi.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony S

That really did the trick, thank you so much. 1 more question, Will this hurt the pump or bladder tank if it's turned up to much? My pressure gage on the pump is reading 70 psi.

Hey Tony,

70 PSI's a tad high but acceptable. 45 to 5o PSI"s about average. Glad we could help. Tom

Well water pressure

LOL, I changed my post about the time you sent a reply to my other post. The pump kicks on at 40psi and cuts off at 60psi, is that OK? By the way, you guys are great to help all of us out like this, GOD BLESS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony S

LOL, I changed my post about the time you sent a reply to my other post. The pump kicks on at 40psi and cuts off at 60psi, is that ok? By the way, you guys are great to help all of us out like this, GOD BLESS.

Hey Tony,

40/60 PSI is well within limits. A side note on your bladder tank. . Your air setting on the tank should be 2 pounds UNDER the cut in point in the pressure control box. If your pressure control has a 40 PSI cut in and 60 PSI cut out the tank pressure should read 38 PSI. This should be done with the pump off and no pressure in the system. In other words shut the pump off and open a faucet to bleed off the pressure before setting the bladder tank pressure. Good luck, Tom

Not sure what your saying, are you wedging the points open on the check valve switch so it will kick on early?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony S

Not sure what your saying, are you wedging the points open on the check valve switch so it will kick on early?

Hi Tony,

I'm wedging the little arm on the pressure switch that you have to move to prime the pump.

What type of well do you have, a deep or shallow wee. 25 ' or more would be considered a deep.

Over 75 feet deep.

Sounds to me like You're running out of water, or suffering what is called a dry well condition, when you are using water and the pump loses prime. If not you have a leak in the pipes above the water after drawing down the well some. Otherwise and most likely you have a bad foot (check) valve in the well. It allows water under pressure to flow from the tank/pump back into the well. A leak between the tank and foot valve is a possibly too. Shut off the water past the tank to the house. If the pump runs in that 8+ minutes you've proved the leak is on the well side of the tank. It won't be on the house side because that won't cause air to be sucked into the foot valve or the loss of prime but still, you could have a leaking toilet fill valve etc

There's no shut off for the water between the tank and the house. If it's a check valve problem, can it be fixed from inside the house?

Oh and will having the magic marker wedged in to keep the lever from moving too much, so that I don't lose all water pressure, hurt my system?

For goodness sake remove the magic marker! If you are doing what I think you are doing, you are wedging the reset lever on your switch to the on position which would cause your pump to run 24/7... not good.

First of all, you have a submerged pump so you are not losing prime. Submerged pumps don't lose prime since they are located towards the bottom of the well actually IN the water. If the problem is a checkvalve, then you will notice the pump will pump up to cut off pressure and shut down. If will watch the pressure gauge, you will notice it fall fairly rapidly down to the cut in pressure point. Then the pump will come back on and the cycle will repeat itself. The same thing will happen if there is a leak somewhere between the tank and the pump, but probably more slowly.

When you move the lever on the pressure switch, you are not priming the pump, you are simply turning it on. If that is the case, then the problem sounds more like the switch. When your pressure drops to 40 pounds (I believe that is what you stated your cut in pressure was), then the dual points in the switch should close and activate the pump. When it reaches 60#, then the points should separate and shut the pump off. It sounds like the points are not closing and you are having to do this manually with the reset lever.

Also be aware that your switch might have a pump protection setting that will shut down if pressure drops below 20#. This is done because the switch assumes that the water level has dropped below the pump and shuts it all down to protect the pump.

It may be that your water level has dropped and the pump no longer has sufficient water to pump consistently. It may also be that your switch is bad... hard to say with what you have described. However, the switch only costs $25.00 or so. Replacing it is fairly simple. This site does a nice job of showing you how. Can be done in an hour or two if you have even some experience with the electrical side of things. If it's not the switch, then all you have lost is $25.00. If it's the pump or the water table, then $25.00 will look small.

Replacing A Pressure Tank On A Residential Water Well System

Well, having reread your posts, I am assuming your pump is submerged since you stated it is deeper than 75'. Is the pump above ground? If not, then it is submerged. At any rate, the reset lever on the switch does not prime the pump, it just resets the switch and closes the contact points to turn on the pump.

jlisenbe,

Thank you for your time. The pump is submerged and from what you describe, it definitely sounds like a check valve problem.

Without the magic marker wedged in, there is no water coming out of the taps at all. I think it's time to call the pump people.

I wish you well. Just be aware that the magic marker thing really points to an issue with the switch, at least in my mind. With a faulty check valve, the pump will cycle on and off frequently but the switch should still turn the pump off and on properly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I wish you well. Just be aware that the magic marker thing really points to an issue with the switch, at least in my mind. With a faulty check valve, the pump will cycle on and off frequently but the switch should still turn the pump off and on properly.

You also said that that would keep the pump running 24/7. But the pump isn't running continuously. You'd hear it in the pressure tank, wouldn't you? I'm not saying that the switch isn't also the problem. I'm going to have the holding tank replaced tomorrow, too.

I'll post back here after everything is fixed to let you guys know the final score.

P. S. Please tell me that you could be wrong about the '24/7', before I go to bed tonight, so it's not on my mind.

My understanding is that keeping the reset switch jammed "on" will run the pump. I could be wrong about that. At any rate, you seemed to have checked that and it would seem the pump is not running. If you have any concerns about it, just turn off the breaker before you turn in. You can always turn it back on in the morning when you need it. And do let us know how the whole deal is resolved.

These sites are really good about switches/wells. Can be an interesting read before the pro arrives.

Boulder/GNC Water Well: How to reset a Square-D Low Pressure Cutoff (-M4) Switch

Green Road Farm ~ Submersible well pump installation & Troubleshooting

I'm an expert at resetting a pressure switch. :) The problem is that it won't go past 35 and without the magic marker being wedged in, the pressure drops in a hurry. Could this have something to do with the tank being waterlogged?

"Could this have something to do with the tank being waterlogged?"
You can check out the waterlogged deal by simply pressing the air valve at the top. If the tank is completely waterlogged, water will come out the valve. Even if the bladder is ruptured, you can refill the tank with air at the valve and reverse the waterlogged condition. I had an old tank for a couple of years that I would just add air to every couple of months until I got around to replacing it.

A waterlogged tank will typically cause the pump to"short-cycle", meaning it will cut on for a few seconds, then off for a few seconds, and so on. However, this will only happen when water is being used. The reason is that there is so little air at the top of the tank that small amounts of water being added or drawn from the tank causes big pressure changes. I have never heard of a waterlogged tank causing a system to stay at a low pressure and not pump up to cut off point.

"The problem is that it won't go past 35 and without the magic marker being wedged in, the pressure drops in a hurry."
Question: When you don't have the magic marker fix going, and the system will not go above 35#, does the switch cut the pump off at 35# (breaker points separate) or does the pump just continue to run but not go above 35#? IF the switch is cutting the pump off at 35#, then the switch would seem to be the problem. If the pump will not pump above 35#, then the pump would seem to be the culprit, barring a leak in the well pipe somewhere.

jlisenbe,

Firstly, the repair people couldn't come on Friday, but they promise to arrive first thing Monday morning. They assured me that my magic marker fix wouldn't hurt the pump.

As to your question: The breaker points do NOT separate.

P. S. Thanks for the links.

It will be interesting to find out. I wish you "well".

Please post the resolution of this problem.

I shall, my friend.

The holding tank was completely full of water and was clogged with iron deposits, as was the iron filter and salter. Fortunately, we had a spare tank in the basement that was better than the one being used. They were switched after the tank was drained and both filters have gone to the shop to be serviced. The pump itself will be checked after the ground thaws, because the water pressure is still at 35. It's a bloody good 35, though and the pump is under warranty.

Glad to see its been resolved. It will still be interesting to see why it won't pump up over 35#.

this worked great for me. Thanks! One quick note I counted the "turns" as full turns by 4- 1/4 turns = 1turn and three turns was too much over 70psi so I backed it down some. Mabye start with one full turn and go from there.

First locate the pressure control box. This will be a small 1 1/2" by 2 1/12" gray box the pump wires connect to.
I'm going to assume that you have a "square D pumptrol and that it has a 20 PSI cut in and a 40 PSI cut off setting, First turnoff the power at the breaker box, then pull the cover off the pressure switch and you will see two spring loaded bolts secured with nylon nuts. One tall, one short. To increase the cut in pressure, turn the nut on the tall bolt down. To increase the cut out pressure,(that's the one that will give you more pressure) turn the nut on the short bolt down. This should give you the additional preesure you desire. Good luck, Tom

Thanks so much for the expert advice. I turned both bolts 3-4 times complete which gave me the pressure I needed but then I had a leak from an open? Fitting below the pressure gague (which is full of water) is that good.. bad?

Quote:

had a leak from an open? Fitting below the pressure gague (which is full of water) is that good.. bad?

If the gage is full of water, replace it, If it's something else please explain. Regards, Tom

OK. Immediately beow the gage on the left is an open pipe (see pics) that leaked when I turned up the pressure and stopped when I turned it back. Any ideas? I really appreciate your help!! Can I email you the pics?

Could this "open pipe" be a pressure relief valve??

I think so... I stuck my finger in it and could push a plunger which caused more water to release.

Look at it this way. You have what is probably a malfunctioning pressure gauge, so you really don't know what your pressure is. That is not good, and your pressure might be higher than you think. You can read it with a tire gauge at the top of the pressure tank. The PRV is set to release pressure at some point, for instance, 70#. So, in that case, if the pressure gets to 70, the valve will release some water.

60# at the top end should be plenty of pressure. If you are higher than that, then turn the large nut ONLY. Turn it counter clockwise a couple of turns, then cycle your pump. Keep at it until you get to 40/60. That should be plenty of pressure and keep the PRV from venting. However, if you want to go to 70# at the top end, then it might mean replacing the PRV.

Just checked it and my tire pressure gage only goes up to 50# and it pegged out pretty quick. Should I replace the pressure gage that's bad? If I shuf off power to the pump and drain my tank will that be enough to remove the gage w/o water going everywhere??

Yes and Yes.

I'll try that. THANKS!!

I have never seen anyone have any luck playing with the adjustment screws on a pressure switch. Replace it with a higher switch(40/60)recharge the pressure tank to 38 lbs and you should be all set.

Handyman
Why you bring up all these old post? This one 7 years old.