Ask Me Help Desk - Moving a kitchen sink

Moving a kitchen sink

I want to move my kitchen sink to adjacent wall in my kitchen. My question is how to tie in the drain and vent to meet code. To make this easy I would like to go through walls instead of going down. I have a basement but it is finished.
There is an existing drain and vent pipe are 38 inches to the right of the new sink location and then a 20 right on the adjacent wall then it will attach to a vertical drain and vent.. From what I am reading as long as the vent pipe rises 1/4 per foot it is okay to tie into the existing vent?? But I am a little lost on the drain. Can that connect the same way? As long as I slopes 1/4 inch per foot I can 90 it over the existing drain?

It is called "dirt arm". If your new sink drain is 1 1/2" than 38" distance you have is just the max you need. Cut in San T into existing drain, run surface-mounted dirt arm towards the new sink, connect new sink drain. You are finished. No vent needed as long as you don't go over 42". If yo do - than you can install AAV vent on the new horizontal sink drain and as close to the sink as possible.

This existing vent you wish to connect to. Is anything draining into it from above? Let me know, Tom

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Originally Posted by Milo Dolezal

It is called "dirt arm". If your new sink drain is 1 1/2" than 38" distance you have is just the max you need. Cut in San T into existing drain, run surface-mounted dirt arm towards the new sink, connect new sink drain. You are finished. No vent needed as long as you don't go over 42". If yo do - than you can install AAV vent on the new horizontal sink drain and as close to the sink as possible.

The run will be 40 inches to the right of the sink and then a 90 degree turn to the right and 25 more inches. And I was planning on using 2 " pvc. Splicing into the existing drain with one of those rubber connectors.

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Originally Posted by speedball1

This existing vent you wish to connect to. Is anything draining into it from above? Let me know, Tom

This is on a ranch.

I asked

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Originally Posted by speedball1

This existing vent you wish to connect to. Is anything draining into it from above? Let me know, Tom

You answered,

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This is on a ranch.

Which simply tells me that you have a single story dwelling. I want to know about this vent you're planing on connecting back to. Unless this is a dry vent installed for the purpose of a future remodel tlhis vent has to be venting something. Something has to drain into it and I want to know what . Can you tell me what it is? Regards, Tom

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Originally Posted by speedball1

I asked

You answered, Which simply tells me that you have a single story dwelling. I want to know about this vent you're planing on connecting back to. Unless this is a dry vent installed for the purpose of a future remodel tlhis vent has to be venting something. Something has to drain into it and I want to know what . Can you tell me what it is? Regards, Tom

Sorry... the bathtub drains into it. However if I go another 2ft I can send it right back into the original sink drain??

Are wet vents allowed in your area? Will a permit be pulled and a inspection made?
If you say no there might be a corner or two we can cut. It's not too good a idea to drain something past a drain, such as a tub, shower or floor drain that's so low to the floor. A small amount of back pressure and you have backups form those types of drains. I think I would plan on connecting back to the old drain line. If the distance becomes a problem we can always turn a tee on its back and revent back to the kitchen vent.
Your thoughts? Cheers, Tom

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Originally Posted by speedball1

Are wet vents allowed in your area? Will a permit be pulled and a inspection made?
If you say no there might be a corner or two we can cut. It's not too good a idea to drain something past a drain, such as a tub, shower or floor drain that's so low to the floor. A small amount of back pressure and you have backups form those types of drains. I think I would plan on connecting back to the old drain line. If the distance becomes a problem we can always turn a tee on its back and revent back to the kitchen vent.
Your thoughts? Cheers, Tom

That is what I am thinking 2" i will take a picture later and use paint to draw in what i plan on doing......

its pretty much what was there exept the "dirt amr" will be about 8 feet long with a loing sweep 90 in it. I am going to make it pitch 1/4 inch per foot.

I live in the suburbs of chicago and I wouild like to make it pass inspection.

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I live in the suburbs of chicago and I wouild like to make it pass inspection.

Greetings fro a Rockford transplant. If you want to keep in code install a turned up tee about 5 foot down stream and revent it back to the kitchen vent through a inverted sanitary tee.
Cheers, tom

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Originally Posted by speedball1

Greetings fro a Rockford transplant. If you want to keep in code install a turned up tee about 5 foot down stream and revent it hack to the kitchen vent through a inverted sanitary tee.
Cheers, tom

Five feet down stream on the 2 inch pipe would be after the 90 turn I have to make. If that is OK that would be GREAT! (and easy).

More info...

This ranch was built a in the 60s early 70s

The kitchen and bath back up to each other and all the vents are tied together.

Thanks for everybodys help!

I installing thje revent after the 90, (I hope you mean short sweep) is going to be difficult then measure back from the trap 5 feet and install it there. Regards, tom

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Originally Posted by speedball1

I installing thje revent after the 90, (I hope you mean short sweep) is going to be difficult then measure back from the trap 5 feet and install it there. Regards, tom

I have attached two pics of what I am looking to do. Need to know if they both are possible. The one going through the wall will be possible because I will have space behind the lazy susan.

The other picture is an idea of going through the floor with 2 inch pvc then turning to meet the old sink drain. And venting through the wall with 1 1/2 inch

I plan on cutting the metal pipes and using ferncos to connect the pvc.

What do you think?

The upper picture caught my eye. A lot less labor going through studs then the floor.I would use a short sweep to get around the corner and we've already discussed the revent although I don't see it drawn in. Figure you have 5' from trap to vent take off on a 2" drain line and you have what looks like a loop vent all ready for you to tie back to. Let me know what you think. Tom

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I agree a lot less labor.
So as long as I vent (blue) from the "T" I have drawn in black over to the vent I have labeled in green I can tie my sink drain into the tub drain pipe or the old sink pipe?

It works for me. You're vented at the new location. I realize that connecting back to the tub would be the easiest but draining past the lowest drain in the system isn't a good idea. Why not connect back to the lavatory drain line with a sanitary tee.?. If wet vents are allowed in your area you could do away with the vent entirely. How's that grab you? Cheers, Tom

You don't need to go with the vent all the way to the new location. You can run Dirt Arm from tub location to the sink (4'). Vent could be installed before the wall turns corner and connected right there, too...

Question: what's the size of the framing in front of the pipes ? Is that full 2 x 4 ?

Thanks guys! Ill send the finished pics later

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Originally Posted by Milo Dolezal

You don't need to go with the vent all the way to the new location. You can run Dirt Arm from tub location to the sink (4'). Vent could be installed before the wall turns corner and connected right there, too...

Question: what's the size of the framing in front of the pipes ? Is that full 2 x 4 ?

Sorry Milo but I disagree. I don 't advise draining anything past the lowest drain in the house. It's just not good plunbing practice and I'm surprised that you would recommend it. As I've stated in a earlier post. He can tie back to the original sink drain and revent or he can forget the revent and connect to the lavatory raiser where it will be wet vented.
In my book, connecting the kitchen sink to a tub drain is not a option.
You must have had a reason for recommending it. Want to share? Regards, Tom

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Good morning Tom... That "dirt arm" can go through cabinets, surface mounted. No drilling across the studs...

Of course, I hope the plumbing wall is constructed using 2x4's not 2x2's...

Ya still don't like wet vents don't you? That's cool by me Milo. I like your revent back to the kitchen drain. It works for me. Now let's see how it works for him. Regards, Tom

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Originally Posted by speedball1

Ya still don't like wet vents don't ya? That's cool by me Milo. I like your revent back to the kitchen drain. It works for me. Now let's see how it works for him. Regards, Tom

Yeh Tom, I agree with you... as a plumber who works under UPC , you know what I think about wet-venting... even our dog is vented! :D:D:D

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Here is what I have so far. I will be finishing the rest when the cabinets arrive.

I love it! Your job should pass with flying colors! You have done a neat, professional looking remodel job. You can work on one of my crews anytime. Regards, tom

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Originally Posted by speedball1

I love it! Your job should pass with flying colors! You have done a neat, professional looking remodel job. You can work on one of my crews anytime. Regards, tom

Thanks for all the help. The offer is great but its too hot in Florida.

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thanks for all the help. The offer is great but its too hot in Florida.

I'll remind you that you said that next winter when you're up in " Yankee Land" freezing your buns off while I'm out at the beach catching rays. Cheers, Tom

Very Clean... Good Job..

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Originally Posted by speedball1

I'll remind you that you said that next winter when you're up in " Yankee Land" freezing your buns off while I'm out at the beach catching rays. Cheers, Tom

I have family in tampa, If I get too cold Ill warm up down there.

Any tips for when I finish triming up the water lines and connecting the sink?

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Originally Posted by handyMrFixit

I have family in tampa, If i get too cold Ill warm up down there.

Any tips for when I finish triming up the water lines and connecting the sink?

I worked in Tampa back in the 60's as a plumber but I built choppers on the side. As you progress you'll run into problems, that's when you'll need "tips".
Great looking job! Regards, Tom

Ohhh, how I hate to be the ball buster. But I will since I used to make the same mistake during the beginning years of my apprenticeship. First off, Great job, looks good, and will work awesome. Now, I do see one minor(and I mean very minor) code violation. And trust me, I don't think you would ever get called on it, so don't worry about it. Like I said, everything looks professional, except(and my eyes may be playing tricks on me, but) it looks like the vent tee direction of flow is backwards. The tee on its back should be placed with direction of flow going downstream on drain. Looks like its installed backwards. Like I said, not a problem, just thought I would mention it for any future remods you may take on. Once again, good job, you did it just the way I would have done it(other than the tee of course, lol). Take care. Lee

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Originally Posted by mygirlsdad77

Ohhh, how i hate to be the ball buster. But i will since i used to make the same mistake during the beginning years of my apprenticeship. First off, Great job, looks good, and will work awesome. Now, i do see one minor(and i mean very minor) code violation. And trust me, i dont think you would ever get called on it, so dont worry about it. Like I said, everything looks professional, except(and my eyes may be playing tricks on me, but) it looks like the vent tee direction of flow is backwards. The tee on its back should be placed with direction of flow going downstream on drain. Looks like its installed backwards. Like i said, not a problem, just thought i would mention it for any future remods you may take on. Once again, good job, you did it just the way I would have done it(other than the tee of course, lol). Take care. Lee

Thanks for the tip. I was curious about that.

I noticed the throat of the sanitary tee also but unless the inspector's a real d-ick head the job will pass. Nothing about that tee will interfere with the operation of the vent. When I worked in Fort Myers the inspectors were all good guys. Of course that was over 40 years ago. Regards, Tom

Hey guys!

Thanks for all the help.

I have another question.

For when I go up with my copper how far above the shutoff must I extend the copper for proper expansion?

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my eyes may be playing tricks on me, but it looks like the vent tee direction of flow is backwards

your eyes are just fine Lee. Then tee is installed backwards. I missed that little item. Good catch.

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when I go up with my copper how far above the shutoff must I extend the copper for proper expansion?

What "expansion" are you talking about? Would you be speaking of shock absorbers, (air chambers)? Let me know, Tom

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If this is what you are talking about, I say six to twelve inches. You can also purchase water hammer arrestors that are premade. Tom has a lot more experience than me in this area, so hope he can give you the best option. Lee.

We install air chambers oin all lavatories and the kitchen sink you can either purchase them ready made, see image) or build your own out of 12" of hard copper and a hard cap. They prevent water hammer and install like this,(see image) If you're referring to something else let us know. Good luck, Tom

That's it... air chambers. That picture is perfect. Thank you very much