Hello. Tub spout recently replaced, as well as the showerhead (needed new ones of both anyway due to bad diverter valve, and I didn't like the old head).

Anyway, I find water pressure coming out to be very low. It's so low that when the shower is being used, and I turn the showerhead upside down, the water only goes a couple of inches in the air.

I started reading about repairing faucets and such. I got the handle off, and the compression nut, but I don't know where to go from here (in fact, I think I'm going the wrong way for this problem).

Behind the faucet are two valves that still let drips of water come out when fully closed (I hate that, old plumbing, etc).However, there are stainless steel supply hoses coming out of the valve and into a brass-looking body with 2 inlets and 2 outlets (hot/cold, tub/shower). After removing the hoses and aiming them into a bucket, and turning the water back on, I get a massive amount of pressure (that I would expect). This is true for both hot and cold. Also, not that it matters, but I get great water pressure out of the bathroom sink as well.

So I guess my next step is getting this brass body off. Am I correct? It appears the body is screwed into the tub's pipe, but the other three ports have the steel hoses and the shower pipe screwed onto them. The fitting on the shower pipe refuses to budge though, and I'm afraid of causing more harm than good.

It's an Aquasource single-handle faucet. If anyone needs pictures I can gladly supply them. Thanks!

If you can post a picture will be great, is the problem with tub and shoer both or only shower head if it shower head only remove the shower head turn on the water and check how is the pressure if it is good then the problem is with shower head check inside there is a restrictor remove it and toss it out, if it is both the tub and the shower the problem is with your valve and you don't have to replace the whole assembly just the cartridge/the seals or the ball depends on your valve, Thanks.

John

Hi afaroo.

I suppose I did forget to mention... it's low out of both tub spout and shower head. I took a couple of pics (excuse the water spots on the 3rd pic :()

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/4807/dscn1052sek.jpg

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/3509/dscn1053k.jpg

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/4231/dscn1054c.jpg

Tonglebeak...

I just saw the picture!!

You need to stop and remove the black iron nipples that are installed there... they are the wrong nipples for this job! Here, dissimilar metals are joined and that creates an electrolytic effect/depositing that will cause rust, cause water discoloration and quickly cause the pipes/valve to clog up with sediment!

You need to install BRASS NIPPLES here... ;)

While you have the valve out disassemble it and clear all ports... should be quick easy job! If you want the best VOLUME you can get pipe this all as 1/2" solid copper or brass pipe from the shutoffs forward... get rid of the flexible connectors.

MARK

PS...the piping below the shutoffs isn't black iron pipe too is it...??? Let me know.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by massplumber2008

Tonglebeak....

I just saw the picture!!

You need to stop and remove the black iron nipples that are installed there.....they are the wrong nipples for this job!! Here, dissimilar metals are joined and that creates an electrolytic effect/depositing that will cause rust, cause water discoloration and quickly cause the pipes/valve to clog up with sediment!!

You need to install BRASS NIPPLES here...;)

While you have the valve out disassemble it and clear all ports.......should be quick easy job! If you want the best VOLUME you can get pipe this all as 1/2" solid copper or brass pipe from the shutoffs forward...get rid of the flexible connectors.

MARK

PS...the piping below the shutoffs isn't black iron pipe too is it...??? Let me know.

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Hi, here's a pic of the pipes below it (this house is 102 years old by the way lol):

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/5494/dscn1055w.jpg

What do you mean brass nipples? And how do I remove the valve to begin with? I thought loosening the fitting that leads to the shower would help, but the fitting will not budge at all.

Sorry for the stupid questions, but I'm a complete noob when it comes to plumbing. I can follow instructions nicely though and learn :)

Great pics... thanks! Brass pipe is a threaded pipe/fitting that is compatible with the brass valves in place at your tub/shower valve... you could also use copper pipe and fittings which are in place below your shutoffs. Those black nipples are primarily used in fitting gas piping or boiler piping... replace as suggested! Clean the valve thereafter... bet it fixes all this!

From the hot water shutoff forward, you need to replace all in brass or copper pipe for maximum volume.

For the cold water I believe the nipple before the shutoff is also black iron and needs to be replaced. You can use the old shutoff, but need to replace that nipple before the shutoff as mentioned.

The shower pipe is all set, but the pipe feeding the tub will also need to be replaced.

To make this work you need to shut off the main water shutoff into the house, remove the flexible connectors at the valve and then install all new fittings and pipe to the tub/shower valve. While disconnecting all the black pipe you want to clean all inlets/outlets to the valve to clear of any sediment as mentioned.

Otherwise, I recommend all the above but I recommend replacing the tub/shower valve completely as most common brands are only $100.00 or so... I recommend the symmons allura series (1st pic.) or the s-96-2 (2nd pic.)... ;)

If you are not comfortable with all this hire a local plumber... get 2-3 estimates and go with person you are most comfortable with. Do not pay the balance in full until you are satisfied with the job!

Let me know if you want to discuss more...

MARK

What sorts of nipples? Like what sizes? I'm sure I can find them at Lowe's correct?

Any idea on how to get the fitting off that leads to the shower? And how do I actually remove the valve body itself from the faucet?

They are 1/2" I.P.S. brass nipples by whatever length you need.

Easiest would be to replace the black iron nipples exactly with the brass nipples and then reconnect using the flexible connectors (use teflon tape). Leave the shower piping alone as it is already copper!

If you want to connect all together with solid piping then that is a bit more involved...


Please reread post #6 as I added more while you were posting...thanks!


Let me know...

Thanks for the response :) I'm quite comfortable with giving it ago. I'll cry more if I can't figure it out :)

Thanks again!

Hello Tonglebeak,

I agree with Mark 100% like he says dissimilar metals are joined and that creates an electrolytic effect/depositing that will cause rust, cause water discoloration and quickly cause the pipes/valve to clog up with sediment!

Follow his instructions and I am sure your issue will be resolved, good luck.

John

Hey all...

Just noticed that BOTH nipples below the shutoffs are black... so both need to be replaced... ;)

I don't know why I thought the hot water nipple was brass, but it's not! Sorry I missed that!

I'm betting the real issue will be at the shutoffs themselves being choked down by sediment/deposits when you open all this up. Let me know... OK?

Good luck Tonglebeak

PS... You should also put some caulking around the tub spout. In your picture I can see where water has dripped from around the tub spout and down onto the plywood and finally onto the tub waste... just more F.Y.I... :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by massplumber2008

Hey all...

Just noticed that BOTH nipples below the shutoffs are black....so both need to be replaced...;)

I don't know why I thought the hot water nipple was brass, but it's not!! Sorry I missed that!

I'm betting the real issue will be at the shutoffs themselves being choked down by sediment/deposits when you open all this up. Let me know...OK?

Good luck Tonglebeak

PS...You should also put some caulking around the tub spout. In your picture I can see where water has dripped from around the tub spout and down onto the plywood and finally onto the tub waste...just more F.Y.I...:)

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There is.I just bought the house as-is and I'm finding a lot of the work was half-assed. I Had to replace the tub spout and it is indeed sealed. You're probably seeing some residual water that came out of the flex lines when I unhooked those.

I think to save time I'll just cut the pipes, because I now have a different issue where the pipes are held down on the other end by a strap and screws. Only accessible if I remove the wall in the tub...

With that said, what are everyone's opinions on compression fittings? Seems like it's easy enough to do so long as the surface of the pipe is clean. I'll need to probably do so anyway, due to how the shower and the tub are connected.

Thanks.

If you remove the wood going across the stud bay you should be able to pop the whole valve out in one piece.

After that, I would suggest that you purchase some SHARKBITE push-fit fittings instead of the compression fittings... see images. These fittings just get pushed onto the copper pipe with no need to solder them afterward.

Sharkbite or gatorbite fittings are usually available at all home supply stores. You will also want to purchase some 1/2" copper tubing (type L), some plumber's sandcloth to clean the ends of the pipe before pushing into the sharkbite fittings, and a copper tubing cutter to make clean cuts to the copper tubing.

Remember to use some teflon tape or pipe dope on all threaded fittings.

Hey, just thought I'd give an update...

I went and bought the brass unions at Lowe's ($3 for each one? Wow.. ). At this point I'm a bit intimated about replacing th stainless steel flex. But god almighty what I've found so far (still in the process of doing this). Every union: filled with crud. The smell of iron was strong. The shutoff valves were also filled with iron. The input fittings are filled with crud (but thankfully it looks like it's confined to just the iron to copper connection).

Update: unions are on. The shock of turning water pressure back on (whole house) must've knocked some crud loose in the pipes. Out of the bathtub faucet was loads of black sand-like material (iron perhaps?) I had lost hot water in the tub at one point but now that's back. However, I somehow managed to lose hot water in my bathroom sink now (it was originally working just fine before I shut the main valve on the output of my well pump).

:(

I guess tub wise, I still have to replace that black elongated union as well as the elbow going to the tub spout. I must say, pressure still is the same out of the spout, but out of the shower it's noticeably better. Still not fantastic by any means... I suppose I can remove the valve body totally once I get an elongated union and an elbow for the tub spout pipe.

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/5894/dscn1063.jpg

You done a great job, when you remove the valve make sure that you replace the black pipe and the elbow, see the picture below, Thanks.

John

Hi Tonglebeak:

If you purchase the sharkbite fittings and some copper pipe the rest of the job will go quickly and easily... ;)

As you mentioned, it will be a good idea to replace the tub spout piping even though pressure is normal because it will also clog up with sediment as the other fittings did never mind that the rusty water that you barely see now will start to stain that tub sooner than later.

The hot water at the bathroom sink will require you to shut the main off again, remove the hot water stem and then pulse the main water supply on (rag over faucet) and clear the line of any sediment. Otherwise, the shutoff below may be clogged.

Good job!

MARK

More of an update (this has been in bits and pieces due to my crappy motivation to get anything done).

Well... my new tub spout has a bunch of crap in it now, because... the original tub spout pipe was iron (so I have to go to Lowe's yet again when they open tomorrow). I have everything removed from the faucet EXCEPT the shower pipe. Looks like I'll need to spin the faucet off that, but the problem now is the faucet handle stem and body is protruding out, so of course the wall will not allow the faucet to spin. Any ideas on how to remove the rest of the faucet so I can pull the valve body out and unscrew it?

Hi again Tonglebeak

The pipe going to the shower is a COPPER pipe with a male adapter... no need to change this! I'll bet you're glad to hear that... huh??

If I missed something and there is something I can't see in the pictures above then let me know and I'll post a reply soon.

MARK

Thanks for the reply, but what I'm asking is how to get the faucet disassembled so that I can untwist the valve body off the shower fitting. The faucet is still protruding through the wall, into the tub, and I don't know hwo to disassemble it further. I can't untwist it off the shower pipe because the faucet protrudes through the wall and obviously cannot turn since the wall will stop it.

Tonglebeak... why would you unscrew the valve.. The pipe is copper pipe so no need to remove it..?

If you still want to remove it for some reason, you can shut the water off, remove the guts from the valve and then pull the screws from the wood and you should be able to spin the valve off. Hold the copper fitting against yourself as you spin the valve. You may need to cut the wood... ;)

Finally, worst case, you would ned to cut the copper pipe and then use a sharkbite coupling to rejoin later.

MARK

Mark nailed it, no additional commentary needed here...

Perhaps one: Are you sure that body is NOT UPSIDE DOWN ? There is a sticker on it ( 1st photo) . It is upside down. Usually, they paste stickers on bodies in correct position.

I was going to remove it so that I could thoroughly clean it out... but... now that I think about it, I could just use a fitting brush and try to brush out as much as I can.

... Ok, I was born a blonde. Forgive me >_>

EDIT: Upside down? >:( Oh boy >_>

Remove all the guts and then flush everything by pulsing the water on/off. There should not be any real buildup here as there was not dissimilar metals joined at the shower... so bet you there will not be a major issue there.

I see the lettering now... valve could certainly be upside down... although, as long as the shower diverter is on the tub spout I think you will be fine!

Good eyes, Milo!

MARK

Well, it's done for now I suppose. I don't want to even get into the reason why I had to go to Lowe's 3 times today (Let's just say I couldn't do things the way they were before)...

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/9163/dscn1069a.jpg

So, here's a few YouTube videos of the water coming out of tub, shower, and showerhead hose. I think it's bad out of the hose because it's one of those "water-saver" showerheads. But the other two videos... what are you opinions? Should there be more pressure coming out? I would've expected more but that's just me...

Tub - YouTube - Water pressure - tub pipe

Shower - YouTube - Water coming out of shower pipe

Shower hose - YouTube - Water coming out of showerhead hose

The work looks great!

The shutoffs are completely open... right?

How about chasing the pipes downstairs to a place where you can see the pipes that feed this bathroom.. Then, see if there any more shutoffs associated with this bathroom.. The water volume/pressure is low, for sure.

Chase this out a bit more... could be more mickey moused plumbing.. *UGH*

MARK

Hello Tonglebeak,

You done an excellent job it looks very nice but you still have low water volume/pressure, as Mark's says follow his instructions and I am sure you will find something, Thanks.

John

Well the piping is straightforward. Here's some more YouTube goodness...

YouTube - Piping in Basement - this comes right off the well pump

YouTube - Bathroom sink water - Ignore the toothpaste

Looking at the You Tube the bath room sink faucet flow is OK.
One other thing I may be wrong, there still may be dirt in you supply lines and you valve, I would suggest to close both S/O valves disconnect the supply lines I have marked for you on picture below, get a bucket open one valve a time and see if there is any dirt coming out, I may be wrong but you may try it, Thanks.

John

Here's a very loud video of the cold water side... I'm just going to assume the hot water side is the same at this point... my faucet is severely clogged, isn't it...

YouTube - Cold water supply hose

I think you are hitting on something here John (Afaroo)... I think those flexible supply lines may be reducing the volume at least in some manner.

However, I think the volume of water at the sink is an illusion... ;) I think if you were to install an aerator at the sink volume would be low.

Tonglebeak... you have a flexible connector in the basement... I would replace that. That could definitely reduce the volume available to both the cold water to the house, and maybe also the cold water feed into the water heater!

When you have a chance, someday, it may be a good idea to finish this job by connecting all together with copper pipe. At a minimum... replace the flexibel connectors... they definitely aren't helping you here!

MARK

Tonglebeak...

I think it's what I suggested just before you posted that last video (great stuff by the way).

I'm pretty darn sure that you are seeing a reduced VOLUME as a result of the small flexible connectors... reduces the pipe size to like 3/8"...something we feed toilets and sinks with.

Replace ALL felxible connectors with solid 1/2" piping and then let me know what happens. Sharkbites are your friend here!

Let me know what you think...

MARK

Ok, I can try that... but... a gallon of water weights 8.34 pounds right? That bucket held around 21 pounds of water, and it was all put in there within a minute. Nearly 3 gallons in a minute, is that too low?

Most shower heads are restricted to 2.5 GPM today so fine there, but at the tub 2.52 GPM (21/8.34) is low. And since you are testing this without the shower head in place... problem is house wide.. I suspect.

I would still change the flexible connectors at the shower valve and in the basement!

PS... what pressure does you pressure gauge suggest at the pump?

MARK

Tonglebeak,

Mark is correct those flexible supply lines may be reducing the volume, proceed with his advice, but before you do that I would suggest to clean the shower valve and see what happens, I am spending my 4th of July in the hotel here in Winston Salem NC, Thanks.

Regards,
John

I completely understand. I'm not trying to argue with you, just trying to learn more :) And I definitely am going to change the hose, because I see that they also have some rust in them.

But if I got 3GPM out of the cold water supply, why am I not getting that out of the tub faucet unless the faucet is bad?

Just tested, got 2.15GPM out of the tub faucet. Did some recalculating, and got 2.9GPM out of the supply (52 seconds is how long I had that valve open). Clearly there's nearly a 1GPM loss through the faucet...

Also, my pump shuts off at 51PSI. It kicks on at 40.

Again, I'm not arguing, in fact I'm very happy you're still responding to me, I'm just trying to learn.

Ahhh...

What we have here is probably a case where the pressure balanced tub and shower valve delivers cold water at one pressure/volume and the hot water delivers a lesser pressure/volume. In this case, the shower valve, being pressure balanced, would deliver the lesser pressure/volume...

My point is that the shower valve has a job that it performs.

I wonder if your hot water will deliver the same volume as the cold... care to test for us..?

Besides the cartridge assembly.. there just isn't much to clog up after all you have done here. You did FLUSH all pipes and the valve body/piping... right?

PS... I will respond as long as you do... :) Glad to help...

MARK

Sure, gimme a few minutes...

I got 2.84GPM out of the hot water side of the supply.

It's enough to get a shower, for sure, but if someone else uses any fixture in the home while someone is showering you're only going to get a trickle of water at your shower.

Last request... OK? I want you to try the volume test at an outside faucet... that should tell us if this is isolated to the bathroom or is system wide.

If confirmed low then there will be no question about those flexible connectors being the culprit.

Let me know and I think we will be able to draw final conclusion.

Out of the outside faucet, I had 34 pounds of water in one minute. Roughly 4GPM.

HOWEVER, something I had missed was that the pvc piping off the well pump actually splits BEFORE it gets to the flex hose. One leg of the split feeds the outside faucet, and the other leg feeds to rest of the house (goes towards the flex hose).

Looking at the tag, the flex hose is 12" long and is 3/4". Anything else you want me to try before going further?