Hi Tom,
Thank you for your reply.
There is something I still don't really get in your reasoning of using hot water because it freezes faster. If you argue that the hot water that reaches the freezer is no longer hot due to the infrequent draws and the line length, then I don't see there being any advantage of using the hot water line over the cold water line, since both would end up cold by the time it reaches the ice maker. Then they should both take the same amount of time to freeze. Drawing water from the hot water tank, then requires filling more water into the hot water tank causing the water heater to turn on more frequently, so it does consume a little more energy overall.
I don't cook with water from the hot water line, but I do shower with it. You also can swim in a swimming pool filled with chlorine and chemicals, but that doesn't equate to ingesting it.
I know that the thread started 6 years ago because I read through all of the posts, but the most recent post was less than a month ago. If I violated some nonverbal agreement about posting, then please accept my apologies.
Thanks.

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I don't see there being any advantage of using the hot water line over the cold water line,

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Then you haven't read the previous post where I laid out the reasons. #2 comes to mind.

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they should both take the same amount of time to freeze

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Not so! The hot water freezes faster and clearer.

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Drawing water from the hot water tank, then requires filling more water into the hot water tank causing the water heater to turn on more frequently, so it does consume a little more energy overall.

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SAY What? Do you really think that filling a ice cube tray (4 or 5 oz. of water) will cost you more? You say you've read all the posts and can still come back with the arguments n you've presented? Bottom line! Both cold and hot will work. I just gave you the reason that we hook our icemakers up to a hot water line. Good luck, Tom

Tom, here is what you said:

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If the icemaker line comes off the kitchen sink it will come to room temperature between draws. This, no matter if the water's hot or cold.. .
1) It freezes faster\

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If both hot and cold water lines come to the same temperature at the ice maker, then using the hot water line shouldn't affect the freezing time. Have you actually tried this experiment yourself, or are you just going off what others say? I don't question the fact that hot water freezes faster than cold, but if you say that the water is not hot by the time it reaches the ice maker, then it won't freeze any faster than the cold water. Another way to put it, how much time do you save using the "hot" water vs. cold?

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Do you really think that filling a ice cube tray (4 or 5 oz. of water) will cost you more?

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I agree, probably not much more.

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You say you've read all the posts and can still come back with the arguments n you've presented?

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I like to ask questions and think for myself. But I sense that you don't like people questioning things. Just do as we are told, right?

Hello Newfrige,

Welcome to this wonderful Plumbing website, I believe there is no need for arguments here, Tom is the most expert guy here and he has a lot of experience and he done a lot of these installation.
We give our advices to people for free and we are not telling them that you must do this if people likes our advices they are welcome if they don't then they are welcome too,Thanks.

Best Regards.

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Welcome to this wonderful Plumbing website, I believe there is no need for arguments here, Tom is the most expert guy here and he has a lot of experience and he done a lot of these installation.
We give our advices to people for free and we are not telling them that you must do this if people likes our advices they are welcome if they don't then they are welcome too,Thanks.

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Please tell me how I'm considered as arguing here? I'm trying to ask Tom to explain his answer in more detail. He claims that using the hot water line helps the ice maker work faster based on the fact that hot water freezes faster. However, he also claims that regardless of using the hot water line or cold water line, both lines become room temp by the time it reaches the ice maker. So I have trouble understanding why that would make the hot water line make ice faster.

Sorry afaroo, but Tom is wrong about hooking to the hot water line. His assumption is that it is only done for ice cubes. That makes everything all wet because the water is dispensed by many (most new) refrigerators as cold water. The comments that you get clear ice, hot water freezes faster and that the water returns to room temp between uses is In my opinion true. He continues to ignore, however, the bad taste of hot water and that the hot water does not turn-over (get refreshed) like the cold water side does. When you add to that trying to get a cool glass of water out of the refrig dispenser and it ends up hot or warm, that's enough for me - I want mine connected to the cold water line. Also, if you have trouble with the water line freezing, that is exacerbated by the hot water line freezing faster. At the time he has referred to, the refrigerators did not dispense water, they made ice cubes and the plan was more acceptable for that. Not true for water dispensing refrigerators - you probably will not find using hot water line for ice cubes unacceptable or dangerous. And if you want it that way, fine - do it.

Newfrige: The points Tom makes are true - hot water freezes faster for the same reason it makes clear ice cubes - oxygen is out of it. It also has fewer minerals in it. Hot water also feeds into a tank where little things can grow, but they are heated up so most of them die before growing. Cold water doesn't have that stagnant water problem and turns over faster because more of it is used. And cold water is not heated to kill that bad stuff. But cold water tastes better because of the minerals and oxygen in it. That is the main reason besides taking a cold drink of hot water that I would call the deal breaker. I want cold water supply for my refrigerator - I think you do also. For what he said, Tom is not wrong, but I think overall, he didn't give the full story for what you wanted to know. Am I successful at that?

Thank you jdubya. You've explained it very well. The missing piece of information about older refrigerators only having ice makers, and newer ones adding the water dispenser makes the picture more clear, pun not intended.

I don't dispute that hot water freezes faster, but I don't understand why hot water that has cooled to room temp freezes faster than cold water that has been sitting there all along. From what I've read, the phenomenon is only true for water that is hot (e.g. 35C), and doesn't mention water that has been heated, then cooled down. It's above me. I guess it doesn't matter.

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If both hot and cold water lines come to the same temperature at the ice maker

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STOP!! that's not what I said at all. I said the water in the iced maker linewill come to room temperature just setting there waiting for the next draw.
Juubya makes a valid point about ice water. My only defense is that in all the ice makers we have installed we have never had a complaint.

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I don't understand why hot water that has cooled to room temp freezes faster than cold water that has been sitting there all along.

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Because hot water deoxidizes if the hot water tank. N bIn other words cold waster has more air bubbles. That's why it freezes faster and the cubes are clearer.
But hey. This has been interesting and I'm sure nobody was converted.
Back in my day the refriduators furnished by the condo builder all had i.e. makers and no ice water dispenser. Ice water and frequent draws makes sense to me. Ican see where a thirsty family can drink all the ice water and pull from the ice maker line. Great point joubya!
Hey! It all boils down to personal choice. Knowing what I know now My advice will be to pipe with cold waster. Rewgards, Tom

Hello Jdubya,

Congratulation you explained it very well and everyone understand I personally haven’t connected any one to the hot side but have read a lot and Tom have done many and he claims no body complained, I hope that Newfrige is happy now and lets put this thread in to bed, Thanks.

Regards,
John

The freezing point of water is determined by impurities in the water that disrupt the crystallization process. Oxygen and minerals both affect it some by making it more difficult to solidify thus lowering the freezing point. The water in the cold water line probably freezes at 31.5 degrees or so, Hot water freezes at nearer to 32 where pure water freezes. The amount of difference is not large. As the hot water cools or the cold water warms, the dumping of water into the ice maker would be at nearly room temperature for either hot or cold and so the difference in time to reach the freezing point is not much different - the hot water would be slightly warmer and the cold water slightly colder as it entered the ice maker. Assuming that the latent heat BTUs required to freeze the water is the same for both, the freeze time should favor the hot water slightly because of the freezing temperature of the water. I went to the internet and was surprised to see discussions citing a high school student of the 60's who noticed this phenomenon, but according to the write-up, no solution was subsequently found. I don't remember where, but I remember seeing or hearing the explanation I gave above during my high school or college days - late 50's to mid 60's. So now I am not certain any longer that my description is correct - sure sounds logical anyway.

The chemicals from the hot water heater has to be bad for the health. Would you not think so?

What chemicals, rneal? Are you talking about minerals? If so, nothing unhealthy about minerals.

When water is heated the only real change is that it becomes deoxygenated which creates less kinetic energy... allows freezing to occur more quickly than for cold water.

Mark

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The chemicals from the hot water heater has to be bad for the health. Would you not think so?

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Then you don't use hot water to cook or do dishes. Interesting! Tom

I do not drink water from a water heater, unless they are kept at 140F minimum it is not wise.

Ice makers that are connected to the domestic hot water supply, may produce poor quality cubes. The sacrificial anode rods, found in most tank style water heaters, can react with latent bacteria and create odors in the hot water. Well water that has condition issues, and is treated via water conditioning equipment can be especially prone to hot water fouling.
Domestic hot water DOES NOT freeze faster than cold water; this has been scientifically proven by those a lot smarter than I, however, there are instances where a domestic hot water pipe has frozen before its neighboring cold water pipe - this has more to do with location, usage pattern, etc...

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Ice makers that are connected to the domestic hot water supply, may produce poor quality cubes

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I don't know about that, Mike. I have never seen a quality difference between hot vs cold water ice cubes. The only difference I have ever observed is that the hot water ice cubes come out crystal clear, but the quality is just fine.

I won't disagree about the hot water VS cold water freezing as I have observed that freezing pipes are dependent on many, many factors, for sure!

Mark

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Ice makers that are connected to the domestic hot water supply, may produce poor quality cubes

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Sorry Mike, but I disagree.

1- when water sits in the icemaker line it arrives at the icemaker, at room temperature.
2- hot water makes the ice cubes less cloudy because the water in the water heater has lost its oxygen content, leaving the water with less air bubbles to cloud the cubes.

This is why I recommend piping hot water to the icemaker. Cheers, Tom

Tom,

I respect you and your experiences, but here in the northeast we have well water with varying degrees of quality. Some well water will react to the action of the anode rod and produce foul water, that is why I never connect an icemaker to the hot water piping.
There is a website I frequent ( water heaterrescue.com ), that is administered by a well known dhw expert who explains this action in detail...

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we have well water with varying degrees of quality. Some well water will react to the action of the anode rod and produce foul water,]

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So you're saying that you live in an area that you cannot use hot water for cooking or bathing because of the foul smell. Is that correct? Let me know, Tom