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Should I put a cardboard sleeve around the PVC coming up so the concrete doesn't touch the PVC?

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We use Armoflex (see image) to insulate our pipes coming through the slab. Good luck, Tom

So do you piece it together so it covers around the whole pipe?

Just so you understand what I am talking about, I want to wrap the 4" and 2" pipes.

I am moving along with the plumbing. The pitch was fine, after I connected the length of 4" pipe it turned out to be 3/8" per foot. Below is a picture of the rest of the job. How does it look?

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/u...r/BsmtPlbg.jpg

I'd make a few changes to this... have you installed this yet? Let me know... if not, I'll post a new drawing up and show how I would do it... O.K.? Let me know...


PS: Cardboard will be fine around the PVC coming out of the ground... ;)

MARK

Mark -

I have only installed one 10' piece of 4" PVC just past the 2-Street 45s. I haven't done anything in the bathroom or kitchen. Any help would be great.

Hey hey...

Need to end the run in a 4" elbow into a 4" cleanout... run a 4"x2" wye to pick up the kitchen sink.

In terms of the bathroom you want end on the toilet with a 4" elbow and use a 4" elbow and use a 4" wye (rolled above center line) to wet vent both the toilet and the shower using the vent for the sink. You will need to increase the vent to 2" as directed in the drawing below.

A 2" wye (rolled above center line) to wet vent both the toilet and the shower using the vent for the sink. You will need to increase the vent to 2" dandy clenaout are required as below, etc.

Let me know if all this makes sense...

MARK

Mark... the layout I had isn't going to work because my measurements were incorrect. Measure twice, cut once right. Sorry you made the layout for nothing, my apologies.

Anyway... unfortunately my measurements were on the long side so I had to rearrange the bathroom. Do you think this layout is acceptable? I realize its tight, but I can't change the dimensions. And I really didn't want to go with a smaller shower than a 40" corner unit. Also, I will be using a pocket door.

Here is a revised pic of the bathroom.

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/u...r/BsmtBath.jpg

No problem on the measure error... I've gotten pretty quick at drawing these up... ;)

I don't blame you on the 40" minimum shower....you won't regret that, but it is a tight space, for sure! The toilet is tight, but it fits within the 30" minimum toilet space required by code.

I've attached a new layout... let me know if it makes sense. Review post #45 to be clear on additional information.

MARK

PS: You are installing a properly ventilated fan at bathroom... yes?


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When you say to roll the 4x2 wye above center, is this what you mean?

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/u...khkr/Drain.jpg


I have to say, I can't wait until I don't have to break up anymore concrete:)

Exactly what I mean...

I have all the concrete trenches done, but now I am confused about how to get the 2" shower pipe to come up in the exact spot where the shower drain is. I bought the shower pan, an americh 38x38 corner neo angle. I know where it should be... but I am just worried that when I concrete over the trenches/pipes, and something shifts I am screwed. Is there a trick to this. I read in another post about a DAPOUT box, should I do this?. This morning I made a template out of plywood with the hole in the correct spot. I think that is going to take any error out of the final location.

This is the drain that came with it... if you click on the link it is in the shower base manual section.

Downloads | Manuals

Should I get another drain that is easier to work with, if there is such a thing? This utilizes a neoprene ring that expand against the pvc pipe as a seal.

Where the toilet comes up... do I use a regular 4" 90 degree elbow with the 4" PVC coming up through the concrete? Then I would flush cut the PVC with the top of the concrete when its cured.

The link didn't work Adkhkr... but the neoprene sleeve type is the easist to work with.

In terms of the dapout box... yup! That's the trick with showers... ;)

A plumber would rough in the ptrap and stub up a riser about 6 inches above the floor, and then install the dapout box, cover with dirt, pin it tight with stakes and then add concrete to the surrounding floor. When the concrete dried, the stakes and dapout box are removed and the dirt is cleared away to about 4 inches below the floor. Then the shower pan is DRY FIT (just placed over the stubbed up pipe) and lkeveled in all directions to see how the rough in went. If all is OK, the plumber proceeds to install the strainer assembly, install a structolite (or mortar) base and then sets the shower pan and levels from side to side and from front to back (use shims as needed to keeep pan where it is wanted).

You can try to do it as a plumber... OR, you may want to DRY FIT the ptrap and riser, making sure you like the rough in and then remove it all back to the horizontal pipe and just cap it for now. Place the dapout where it will work nicely for the drain and then fill the dapout with dirt and stake it off and then add concrete to trench and let all dry, etc.

Then, pull the dapout box, remove all the dirt, and start cementing the ptrap and riser up and into place. Check the fit with the pan leveled as mentioned above as you go and you should be able to get a good rough in without too much trouble.

After the drain is roughed in correctly, you will fill the dapout hole to within 2 inches of the concrete floor and you will install the shower strainer and once again, DRY FIT the base and level to be sure all is good! Once all is confirmed good you will want to install a base or structolite or mortar and set the shower pan level from front to back and from side to side.. again, shimming overnight or so to be sure the base doesn't move even a little bit!

Be clear that an 1/8" off on the base will translate to 3/4" off on the shower doors (6ft vertical x 1/8" off horizontal = 3/4" out of plumb on door). There is some adjustability in neo angle doors, but not a full 3/4"... usually! My point is simply that you need to be sure the shower base gets set perfectly... ;)

Let me know if you need more...

MARK

Thanks. Two additional questions:

1) Coming up for the toilet, should I use a standard 4" 90 degree elbow and glue a piece of 4" PVC so it sticks out of what will be the top of the slab?

2) On the 4"x2" Wye that is turned up, does the 2" section that comes out have to be completely vertical as in the previous picture? The problem is that I will be getting too close to the slab. I can really only turn the WYE slightly. How much turn do you have to have?

1) Use a regular 4" 90 and DRY FIT the stub up for now. Later, when all is tiled you can put the flange on the tile and measure the piece you need to join the flange to the elbow. Then you can prime/cement the flange/pipe into the elbow easily! When tiling, be sure to leave enough room around the dry fit stubbed up pipe so that it acommodates the new closet flange, but not so much room that you can't screw the flange down through the tile.

2) As long as the wye rolls above the centerline of the drain pipe it will work for me at any angle.

MARK

For the length of 4" pipe that connects to the toilet, I had to stake it into position because the natural position was shifted a bit from where I wanted it.

I didn't force it to the point where it was going to snap at the joint, but I did need push it a bit and stake it in to prevent it going back.

Obviously you aren't here, but can PVC, such as in this case be pushed into place and not have to worry about having a joint fail in the future?

PVC joints are welded and not glued. If you primed and cemented the joint correctly and didn't put too much strain on the fittings you should be just fine Good luck, Tom

Down to my last couple of fittings under the slab and I ran into a bit of a problem. One of the fittings doesn't want to weld. After I weld it, with a little bit of force it pulls apart. I tried cleaning it with primer and glueing it again but it doesn't want to take like a normal piece. If I twist it, its strong but any vertical force and it pulled out.

I thought I would be done tonight and I run into this. I really don't want to have to put a new piece in because it's the wye going to the shower and I would have to dismantle the pieces going to the sink. Any ideas or am I just losing it?

Hey hey...

When this pops up you want to do exactly what you did... reprime and recement, but then you need to hold it tight... and I mean tight!

Takes a few minutes longer and you may need to strain a bit beyond normal, but on occasion you run into that certain fit/joint that just wants to pull apart. You need to stop it from doing so, up to a minute or more. Then it will weld to the point that you can let go. It could slide out again, so want to check it for first 4-5 minutes... and be sure you are NOT the first person this has happened too... ;)

If you reprime, recement and hold, the joint will take.

Any more questions, let us know...

MARK

Its been awhile, but I am finally looking to finish this project up. I am going to run the vent pipe to an existing vent... see attached. My question is... is it OK to run an existing vent pipe with 3 90s and a horizontal length of approximately 30'.

Can the vents be connected the way I have shown?

Thanks.

Hi Adkhkr... been awhile... ;)

You can use the 90s, but most codes allow only 1/3 of a vents overall developed length to be run horizontal.

For example, on a vent with an overall developed length of 60 feet, only 20 feet of that run would be allowed to be horizontal. Here, if the horizontal run exceeds 1/3 of the developed length, say 45 feet in our example, then you must increase the pipe size of the entire vent by one pipe size.

What is the overall developed length of the vent from the basement floor to the roof? Let me know... OK?

Mark

Looks like I might have a problem with this... the overall developed length would be approximately 50', with 30' being horizontal.

Could I get away with installing an air admittance valve as the vent?

I would suggest that you simply increase the size of the vent to 2.5" if you can find it. If not, 3" pipe on the horizontal will work just fine as well. Be sure to pitch the vent at about 1/4" to the foot back toward the drain.

Finally, you could combine the vents and use a 2" AAV... if they are allowed in your area! The AAV must be "readily accessible" for change out in the future should the AAV fail.

Mark

Are you better off going with a regular vent? Should AAVs be avoided if possible? This horizontal vent pipe will be installed in a 2x4 wall so the smaller the pipe the better. Will a 2.5" pipe fit in a 2x4 OK?

I suppose I could go straight up and put in another vent through the roof for these fixtures only. I am going to be opening up the wall on the first floor for a window anyway.

Regular vents are always best... no mechanical parts to fail!

If you can even find 2.5" pipe/fittings then a 2.5" pipe would just barely fit inside a 2"x4" wall and wouldn't leave much wood behind.

Most likely you'll need to pipe this up 3" and in that case fir the studs out 1.5" using 1.5" studs or maybe that vent straight up and through the roof will put this all to rest for you... :)

Back to you...


Mark

Going the route of a regular vent through the roof. Should I use 2" PVC for the whole vent, including through the roof?

2" all the way and through the roof 18"-24" if you have snowy winters or 6"-12" through the roof if you are from sunny areas like Florida or California... ;)

Mark

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I was thinking of putting the PVC under the footing in a cast iron/steel sleeve, what do you think about this? I can't see how this method could be rejected because its seems like a good solution, at least to me.

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NOT NECESSARY!
Most of the big box guys aren't plumbers. Yours was assuming you were going THROUGH the foundation. But you're not are you? You're going UNDER it.
Run PVC all the way with no cast iron sleeve. Good luck, Tom

When I run the 2" vent pipe, is it OK to use the short radius 90s? Is there a limit to how many 90s I can use when installing the vent pipe?

There are a few tight 90s I need to install to get it up the wall.

Use 2" regular 90s where needed.

In terms of limiting the number of elbows you are definitely looking to use the fewest elbows possible.

If needed, they also sell short pattern vent 90s... ;)

Mark

Here is a quick and dirty sketch of what I am intending on doing... does this look good or would you vent it differently?

The arrow indicates where it will penetrate the floor and go into the 1st floor wall. The pipe in the wall can be arranged any way.

Here's how I'd do it... ;)

As always, pitch the vent as previously mentioned and connect the horizontal vents together at 42-48" off finish floor.

Mark