This whole thread has reminded me of a book on education I read many years ago. One of its chief points was that even if Johnny could read, that wasn't enough. One of the main tasks of the education establishment should be to give the students a ''built in, shock proof crap detector''' When I was studying tankless water heaters, mine went off. Anybody so equipped can take my suggestion they look before they leap and go from there, as upsetting as that seems to be. Intelligent, well informed people don't need me or anybody else to rebut other arguments point by point. If they are the type that swallows marketing hype without question, nothing anybody else or I say will make much difference. Others can even form their own opinion of Imgrowler.

I know, yada, yada, yada.

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Originally Posted by labman

This whole thread has reminded me of of a book on education I read many years ago. One of its chief points was that even if Johnny could read, that wasn't enough. One of the main tasks of the education establishment should be to give the students a ''built in, shock proof crap detector''' When I was studying tankless water heaters, mine went off. Anybody so equipped can take my suggestion they look before they leap and go from there, as upsetting as that seems to be. Intelligent, well informed people don't need me or anybody else to rebut other arguments point by point. If they are the type that swallows marketing hype without question, nothing anybody else or I say will make much difference. Others can even form their own opinion of Imgrowler.

I know, yada, yada, yada.

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>nudge<

>adjusts Labmans halo< :D

I have experience in installing the bosch tankless water heater. To raise the temperature you must slow the water down as it goes through the heat transfer chamber. This means your gpm [gallons per minute] is reduced. It has a 1/2" gas pipe. it also has a full 6" vent pipe. I am certified in rinnai. It has a fan forced vent that pulls fresh air in the tube within the 5" vent. it exhausts the same way. it takes a full 3/4" gas pipe because it allows as much water as possible to flow through. It has a patented fluctuating gas control valve. As the gpm demand increases it feeds more gas to the burner. The water flow is unrestricted. It also has filters to protect the unit.
The decision of tankless or not should be decided on the hot water demand as opposed to cost. If you have the demand and you want to fill that demand, then it will pay for itself in a few years.
You guys are arguing if a chevy vega is better than a ford escort, and the vega costs twice as much. Throw a mercedes in the mix. It changes the perameters. The rinnai is the mercedes. It costs more. It performs better. It lasts longer. And it will save in expense and maintanance.
If you have a demand for a tankless, you need a tankless.

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Originally Posted by doug238

the decision of tankless or not should be decided on the hot water demand as oppossed to cost. if you have the demand and you want to fill that demand, then it will pay for itself in a few years.

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I've always been a bit skeptical about the purported energy savings claimed by the manufacturers of the top four tankless heaters:

Rinnai

Takagi

Bosch

And Paloma

Their BTU calcs for filling a jetted whirlpool tub have always seemed a bit overly optimistic.

The savings are there, if you use the same amount of hot water. You don't though. When I found out I could fill both my whirlpool tubs, you know what I did? I filled them almost every day. My thing here is that I got all the hot water I want and I use it. And if I want to not use it I can save a lot of money on not running a pilot light or reheating a tank 8 times a day even if I am not using it.
That whirlpool soaking in the morning sure helped me with my old knees in the winter time. Now that it is warmer I don't need it but once a week.

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Originally Posted by Jammasta

I actually have a 2 15 year old AO Smith in my house. I was told they didnt make them anymore by my gas company. Is there any way you can give me the contact to that plumbing supply house? Maybe they can ship me 2 of them :) Any help would be appreciated. THanks.

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The place is called MR Plumbing Supply and in Crestwood, Il. a suburb of Chgo. The phone number is 708-385-8607. They are not real prompt at returning phone calls and you have to keep after them. I was under the impression that any plumbing supply house could order it for you.

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Originally Posted by mandelcr

The place is called MR Plumbing Supply and in Crestwood, Il., a suburb of Chgo. The phone number is 708-385-8607. They are not real prompt at returning phone calls and you have to keep after them. I was under the impression that any plumbing supply house could order it for you.

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AO Smith email me back and told me they haven't made a lowboy that short in years and they don't have any in stock. I've called one of the major suppliers here and they told me the same. I'll give your plumber a call and see, I think it was a electric one that he quoted you on.

Hi Mandercr- I just called them and they said they didn't have it. It was a electric one. I guess back to the drawing board and come up with a new gameplan. :(

Install a tempuring valve on the new 30gal and it will increse capacity by injecting cold water. Set the tank temp higher to 140.