Ok, I talked to the architect and he indicated that the riser diagram was indeed intended to be complete (I thought maybe he sent it to me without realizing it wasn't finished - but no).

He says he oversized the drains and building sewer to increase the volume of air in those pipes, thus enabling the fixtures to work properly with fewer vents. Sounds strange to me, but he insists it's done this way all the time.

By the way the architect is in Florida (Tampa). Speedball - do they do it that way where you are?

Hi JR:

There are a number of systems that allow the pipes to be increased in size very much like what your guy did... but I have never seen a system like this that didn't vent every sink... except maybe under the SPECIAL WASTES section of the code book... but that is reserved for commercial application... and usually requires special approval from the plumbing inspector before you can proceed with it.

I guess what bothers me is that this is just never done residentially... maybe commercially with approval but never seen it residentially.

Finally, if this guy says he is a licensed architect and it is a common practice then maybe we are behind on some facts... can't hurt to check with your local plumbing inspector and see what he says. He is final word, after all!

I will be interested to hear what Tom and Milo think about this... :)

MARK

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By the way the architect is in Florida (Tampa). Speedball - do they do it that way where you are?

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Hell No!! I've plumbed in Tampa, we fall under the Standard Plumbing Code. And Chapter Seven, Section 703.5(b) of that code tells us under the heading of "prohibted Traps" that "Full "S" traps are prohibted." and I counted nine of them in his isometric drawing. I don't care how many degrees he has, " If it has a trap it MUST be vented. He also runs afoul of Section 1412.2 of the code which states that a 1 1/2" vent can service only 8 fixture units. On one he has 10 FU he's venting and 13 fixture units on the other. Run that set of plans past the Plumbing Inspector before you let out any contracts or break ground and let us know the outcome. Regards, Tom

He's a graduate architect, meaning he finished school and went directly to work as a draftsman rather than apprenticing. He often does commercial. He's very good with the structure and function of the building. I'm not too sure however of his plumbing and HVAC knowledge!

Anyway it seems like a compromise or workaround to just oversize the pipes and do without some vents. Whether the inspector approves it or not, I'm not convinced it's a GOOD idea to do it.

Jelly! He drew up a set of plans that didn't conform to the Plumbing Code in our area. Period! I even gave you the sections that he violated. Take the drawing down to the Building Department and they're going to tell you the same thing that Mark, Milo and I have been telling you. Do it! Tom

Speedball, I'm with you! I'm just relaxing until my new set of askmehelpdesk plans arrive... ;)

No problem Jelly,
I simply wanted all of us to be on the same page. Venting a trap is one of the basic rules of plumbing. A "S" trap is shaped like a horizontal "S", is unvented and is outlawed in all 50 states and Canada and his guy gave you nine of them. Hope your weekend was a good one, Tom

Hi Jellyroll...

I'm glad to draw up a plumbing schematic... honest! However, it would be nice to know that you talked to your local plumbing inspector and see what he thinks about all this.

If your inspector is in agreement with me, Tom and Milo then I'll draw up a plan... see what you and the inspector thinks... O.K.

Back to you...

MARK

Mark, I hear you. I will be pulling a permit as a homeowner, so the inspector can choose not to give me one if he doesn't think I'm capable.

It makes me a bit nervous if I walk in with this riser diagram - if it looks fishy to you guys then it will look fishy to him. I wonder what the best way to approach him is. Should I just be honest and ask his opinion? I don't want to make him think I have no idea what I'm doing.

Basic rule for plumbers. Always be up front with your inspector. Tell him you have reservations about the venting and ask his opinion. Let us know what he says. Good luck, Tom

I would go in assuming that your local architect is correct here... let him know that some online plumbers have gotten you worked up a bit and you just wanted to be sure that the guy that drew up your plumbing plan was correct. Heck, the inspector may have even worked with this guy... never know.

As much as I know me, Tom and Milo are right here I also know that each state/city/town has its own rules, too!

Check with the inspector... it will not show ignorance but instead it should show him that he has a guy that is doing his homework and trying to follow all the codes as required. Believe me, most inspectors want you to ask questions now, not later when you are finished and they have to tell you to rip it all out!

Let us know as soon as you do. Like I said, glad to draw up new plumbing schematic...

Good luck!

You might mention to the inspector that one of the "on line plumbers" who'se unhappy with the drawing Is a retired plumber who worked for Henry Gonzalez Plumbing in Tampa some years back and who knows the local codes. Hry! Can't hurt! Good luck, Tom