Is it simply a human convention?
|
Is it simply a human convention?
It is wrong to want to end LIFE! It is right to want to protect it!
It is as you stated, human nature. Taking someone else's life away is wrong.:mad:
Startover22,
Why should the life of a person be considered more valuable than the life of an ape?
rankrank55,
You still need to explain why it is wrong to take life. The fact that most people believe it is wrong does not mean it must be wrong. The majority are not always right!
:pQuote:
Originally Posted by tonyrey
No one is better than the other. Killing except in selfdefense is morally wrong. You can't take someone's life simply for the killing. Because life is precious and no has the right to decide when someone has to die just because they want them too.
I don't think it is more valuable, a moswuito maybe. I guess it is all opinion and I would have to say my opinion has to do with rules of the heart. There is something inside us that tells us it is wrong. What is your opions I am wondering why this is even a question that you would ask?? I can't seem to answer this how you want me to. I really think it is inside us to know it is wrong!
startover22
I agree with you. Of course, but to base our conscience on feeling without bringing in reason seems unsatisfactory. The crunch comes when we have to decide, for example, if an unborn child has the same right to life as an adult.
Oh jeeze, I guess I should just get off this post ASAP cause I don't think I can get into a debate about babies (if they are or aren't) Being that I have no REASON to base my feeling on, you are right it is a crunch, I don't like it! It makes me feel uneasy. There I go feeling again. Sheesh!
Tony,
We can expand that to legalized death sentences, assassinations, dropping bombs on civilians, etc..
In the Bible it states "Thou shall not kill" . I honestly think that one that kills will go to hell eventually.
1. human rights... If that person doesn't want to be killed... by showing it in actions or words then it is wrong... if the one that is going to be killed say it is OK to kill them then I guess the one doing the killing has done nothing wrong... 2. " is it simply human convention" I don't understand this question. However I find this to be a rather strange questionQuote:
Originally Posted by tonyrey
I have to agree with the question. Not saying that I think killing people is right but realistically, what gives us that feeling in our hearts to think it is wrong.
Imagine, if you would, a world where killing someone was considered a way of worshiping your god. I know that is hard for many to imagine.. but say in another dimension a so-called Bible taught that the act of taking life was a good thing and was to be done on a semi-regular basis.
Those who protest this now would likely be the ones that advocate it there.
It is a very interesting way to consider right vs wrong. We all feel we know but that is only because we have been taught, or bred rather, to believe what is right or wrong. Those "feelings" in your heart are really only there because they have been ingrained in all of us.
This is so crazy to even think about. I am going to slow down and really put this into my own perspective. Like Karma said what about death sentences? Do these people really deserve to die? I have to say that in the past I though some of them did, I just don't know now? Or maybe they do but do we have the right to kill them? As for war and suicide bombers, I don't know, I just don't...
Species of animals kill each other all the time in nature and we see it as a perfectly normal instinctual thing. Look at what they will kill over...
A mate: This is how the dominant male prevails in many animal societies and is simply a way of life. In our world when a man kills for a woman, that man is jailed or even sentenced to death.
Territory: This is a normal way for animals to control what land is their land or to take over another packs land for their own gain. We do this as well but most of us will protest these wars.
If it was really such a sin, would the sinless creatures of the wild be created to act this way on a daily basis?
No, I don't see animals the same as I do with civilization. I mean we can make our rules known and they can't really make rules, you know what I mean? If they could then I am not sure it would be the same for them anymore, they would make rules on finding their own mate without killing (like we do)
The other side to it is we kill for land as well. It has always been.
We also used to carry guns and use them at will way back when. What about that? (maybe a cowboy movie takes it too far, but that is what popped into my head)
I had a teacher once who brought this subject up but with an even stranger twist on it. It goes hand in hand with some of the other posts above stating what makes us think we are the higher life. In the wild, animals kill each other to survive. They also kill other species to survive, we call it the food chain. So what if we didn't evolve and learn how to "hunt" so to speak in a more human manner. We have canned foods, chicken, beef, pork etc is all packaged for us and even killed as humanely as possible before it gets to the grocery store. What if we had to fend for ourselves and hunt food like our ancestors did or like some of the indian tribes still do. Then would we even be talking about whether taking another life is right or wrong? It would be a matter of surviving. Makes me feel like we take so much for granted.
Yes, and I would grow a huge a-- garden!
I don't necessarily think it is wrong to kill a person. Of course murder is wrong, taking someone's life like that, but I definitely think the killing of another is defendable sometimes. I don't think assisted suicide is wrong, if someone is in so much pain and are going to die sooner rather than later anyway, why should they be forced to live against their wishes? I am all for the death sentence in the right circumstances. If someone takes away someone else's human rights in that way, they deserve to lose their own. I have no sympathy for most cold blooded murderers. Same goes for child rapists and paedophiles in general. But that's just my opinion!
I would be helping you startover, I don't think I could take another persons life even if it meant surviving. I guess I wouldn't make it then...
Yes I think I would need a lot of help, I go to the store for everything even the seeds for my garden out back. Thanks! I think a garden is what it would take for me to survive. I can squish a mosquito but I cannot be-head a chicken, let alone wound an animal. I would eat the chicken or big game that someone else killed but I wouldn't kill it. Isn't that weird...
I don't think I could have enough adrenaline to kill, but you never know what we might be able to do if we were out in that position. Scary, huh?
Hmmmm... many animals follow a set of rules and can even deter from those set rules. They still have the ability to do as they please... to a point. True, they are more driven by instinct and cannot reason.. but what I meant was exactly that... since they can't reason, why are they left on the side that so many of us see as evil or sin? Why wouldn't these otherwise sinless creatures get along without killing each other? Why would God allow this one and only sin be okay for all other creatures?Quote:
Originally Posted by startover22
I'm sorry... that's what I was trying to say is that yes, we DO kill for land and territory. And yet, do we, in our hearts, allow that as OK? Mostly no. most would protest such a thing. Imagine the US invading Canada because the US is becoming too big and simply taking over. But yet, this happens everyday in the wild (granted on a MUCH smaller scale).Quote:
Originally Posted by startover22
So then if at certain times killing one IS okay... who decides what is worth killing for and what is not? Someone said rapists... but what if that rapists was just a product of being raped his/her whole life by his/her parents... then shouldn't the parents be the ones who are sentenced to death? Welll, I guess that gets into a whole different debate.
{START}I do not know how to quote user but I think I did it if you look up?I believe that certain times it is OK, I believe that guy who took my daught raped her and then laughed in her face and then did it again deserves to die, actually, I think if there was someone willing to do that same thing to him, I would rather that be done to him than death! But death is all we as a civiliztion will allow. So be it. He goes! Not that any of that happened and I pray to God it won't to my daughter, but yes, he needs to go. At least in my own opinion he does! I wouldn't be able to pull the trigger so to speak, but I am glad someone has the guts enough to do it! Someone else on the other hand, might be able to pull it but not me, so this is where I am torn. You see?Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJizzle
How do you know when that lion is lying and watching gazelle lickin his chops... etc. that he is not plotting and planning.. I kind of think he is.Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJizzle
The rapists he can not be of sound mind, so how can we as humane people put him to death for doing what he was taught. Maybe murders are just releasing their victims soul so that they can re enter earth school on another plane or the criminal being put to death gets to come back to the school of earth and try again, to be a kinder more gentle soul. I wonder...
I don't think the lion thinks anything wrong of it though. We would as humans. I think that the rapist is a selfish a-- sometimes not of sound mind but I will not give him the benefit of the doubt.
It is from the Judeo-Christian values - the 6th commandment.
God created humans to be rulers of the world and in HIS image - Genesis - so that is why it applys to humans and not neceesarily animals.
Now if you don't believe that then :
There is no need to kill another for fear of retaliation from the victims family, kin, tribe etc.
unless... you are sure of victory or the goal [ food, land, property etc... ] being worth the risk.
Grace and Peace
yes! Exactly... or the young girl startover spoke of may have volunteered to sacrifice her life before it began to teach us all a greater good... whether it be now or it sets off a chain of events that will someday be of great value... or to simply bring that one who raped her to come to know the Truth.Quote:
Originally Posted by bushg
So who are we to judge what is right or what is wrong? What seems so wrong right now may be the single most important event (or even just a contributing factor) that brings exactly what this world needs...
It all brings me back to that "gut" feeling thing, and most people have the gut feeling that killing is wrong. Even if we think someone deserves to die, doesn't mean we will kill them. Yes, you have me thinking!
But what of those that lived before the Commandments were written?Quote:
Originally Posted by inthebox
what if nothing had a value... if everything was the same the only value to it was you need it annd you get it, not extra, only what you need.. nothing you had was valued if someone needs it they get it not extra, not one job paid more or one job valued more. No religion was better than the other it was just religion, no woman or man was more attractive than the other blond , black, red, big breast, small breast, tall, short, thin fat... everything was valued just for being... if a child cried it was feed, etc... do you think that human killing would even be an issueQuote:
Originally Posted by inthebox
All humans have egos, so I think we would think of something to hurt over, don't you?
It is human convention, and part of being civilized.
Humans have the ability to plan and rationalize, animals don't. Say you put 10 dogs in a kennel and don't feed them for three days. Then you feed one dog a plate of poison dog food and let the other dogs watch it die. If you take another dog out of the kennel and offer it a plate of dog food, it's going to eat it. So will the rest of them. They don't have the ability to plan and rationalize and conceive of the future in the same capacity as humans (capacity - that's the important part. I'm well aware that animals hoard food for the winter, etc).
Civilization is what makes it wrong to kill a person. In a civilized society, we don't take away or violate human rights, and the biggest human right of all is life. That's why people call Islam uncivilized, because (some) believe in honor killings. If we want to go back to living in the stone ages and flinging poop at each other, we can legitimize killing others, but I like toilet paper and would rather put up with my mother-in-law (joking!) than have to live in a cave.
Killing a person is wrong. But, can it be justified? Sure. When you put someone to death who has nothing left to contribute to this world, it's easy(er) to justify their death. That's why we don't execute people who shoplift; they stand a chance at rehabilitation. Now some might argue (correctly) that some people who are sentenced to death could be rehabilitated, but our society doesn't like to allow for the chance we might be wrong. You let a shoplifter back out on the street and he steals a toaster; let a murder go and he kills your sister. Which is worse? When you go to war with another country to fight for something you believe in, the war is justified, therefore deaths are also justified. You can't have a war without casualties (well, the Cold War, but whatever), and sometimes you can't fight for what you believe in without war.
Ok enough said, I am going to stay where I started and go with Jillian on this one! I think I have thought it through enough to come to the conclusion that I am not a debater. I never have been and I see things in a more "normal" aspect, or maybe I should say more "common" aspect. Whatever the word, you know what I mean. I have enjoyed coming back to the computer every once in a while and noticing new posts on this, and I am sure it will continue with you people who like a good debate. A lot of these issues were hypothetical so I am not sure if it really mattered anyway1
To some people its not. A good example is a soldier fighting in a "just war" is it wrong for him to kill a enemy? Or a convicted murderer being put to death?
Attachment 3682
I am not saying that I can't do it, it is just that the deeper it goes, the sillier it becomes to me. Some subjects are different and to tell you the truth I am completely awful at debates, I can't seem to get my thoughts into the right words to let you know how I really see something. I must need to take a writing class or touch up on my vocabulary. I just don't have it in me yet to go this far. I am only being honest, I know it sounds funny to some of you. I really enjoyed this thread and will follow it to see where it goes. I do believe that it is wrong to commit murder, and I don't know who's to say what killings are right and what killings are wrong. Please don't murder on my thoughts, they are pretty weak at this point. But you just wait, they will get stronger with the more threads I read like this. Watch out, I am learning! Look out for Startover!
Startover,
Philosophy is like that. I remember Steve Martin's famous quote (he majored in it): "If you're studying geology, which is all facts, as soon as you get out of school you forget it all, but philosophy you remember just enough to screw you up for the rest of your life."
:)
Lol startover... I was just giving a lot of for instances... but think what if we really did think that way, that everyone and everything was the same or on the totaally different end... I'm just saying a lot of people have ordered murder's (mass) they thought the were right in doing so... Hitler... hussein (insane)... I think you helped keep the ideas flowing as well as the other... thank's to the one that started the thread
Yes, thanks to tonyrey! It has been enlightening.
| All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:24 AM. |