I guess if you believe in the scriptures that makes sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by needinfo08
But it means absolutely nothing to many of the rest of us.
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I guess if you believe in the scriptures that makes sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by needinfo08
But it means absolutely nothing to many of the rest of us.
I can't argue with that. I wasn't interested for 2/3 of my life but when it hit me, it hit me hard.Quote:
Originally Posted by xxariesxx
Peace
I Understand you can not fear what you donot believe in.There are a lot of fears
In the world and it is very destructive. Fear is torment and has a paralysing control
Over people who become fearful. There are different degrees of fear.Most people
Do have fear of some kind at some time. I believe and know for myself that when
I became a christian I was deliverd from my fears. As a christian all my fears
Were gone, I knew for myself no matter what happens in my life I had put God in
Control and to me He is all knowing and in control. God said He is in control at all
Times and all things work together for good for those who love Him. If you do
Not believe and have fears you are on your own. Some fears people may have are bankruptcy, bullets, lightning, fire, bad health, it could go on and on. For many
People that believe in God most bad fears leave and love and joy come in.
This is peace and comfort to me but if others are happy with what they believe
In so be it. I am thankfull we all have a choice but we all live in a world that
Is controlled by laws. For all our good we need to keep the laws.
Maggie 3
How could any of us possibly know the answer to this question? After all, we are all still alive. You're going to have to go find a dead person and ask them.
It is the spirit and soul of man that keeps living. The part of you
That feels, hurts, has joy, loves or hates that's the soul and spirit. You can know a person by the way they live by the actions in their life this is the spirit that never dies.The body dies, it is made
Of clay but the spirit and soul never dies. If I have pain in my body you do not know
It until I tell you.There are lots of thing in life you can not see with your eyes but it is
There. How empty life would be not to see beyond what the eyes see
Maggie 3.
Magprob your answer rocked.
From my stand point no one really knows about life after death the bible can only speculate and that book was written by a bunch of dudes years ago. How accurate is that?
In my honest scientific opinion, your brain is made up of neurons that much like a computer uses electricity to store memory and information so your humble existence on the small ball of dust that floats in a vacuum more bearable.
My experience with Electricity however has been a most useful one, after you die your brain might not work but the memory and who you are would still be there due to stored electricity much like a capacitor, it will slowly drain away and activity will cease yet electricity never go's away it just changes into something else. You can't see it, it's just there.
You can thank Ohm, Boyle, Coulomb etc for all those wonderful formulas for understanding electricity, should be the first step to understanding life afer death. So after you die your electrical impulses are still there just in a different form. That's why tissue can be harvested and made to work in other body etc think about it.
In some cases there is life after death just not complete life it's fragments and disbursed.
Jesus said " I am the resurrection and the life. He who Believes
in Me, though he may die, he shell live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shaell
never die." John 11:25-26
This is hope for the world--resurrection. Paul said "I also count All things loss for the the
excellience of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the lost of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ...That I may know Him and the power of his resurrection...if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead" Phil 3:8-11. I choose joy and happiness over doom and gloom.
We all have our choice, eternal death and fire, or heaven with the joy of Lord!
Maggie 3
There is an energy that leaves the body, and freely joins other souls, on the other side.
It has nothing whatsoever to do with religion, bibles, etc.
There are many souls who remain earthbound, and they are indeed manifested as ghosts, in one form or another.
We know that spiritual (not religious) mediums can communicate with these spirits, and guide them to passing over. Some ghosts are confused, some are not ready to believe they are dead, some are earthbound for many other reasons.
Those that do pass over, are in a different dimension, and in a place where growth, understanding and nurturing prepare them to continue their journey.
Some return to be born again, we all know that people have lived many lives through studies in past life regressions, or they remain where they are, or they move onto higher spiritual development.
To believe in heaven in hell is a control mechanism, designed by religion, to guide the living the way a church decides it should be.
Death as we know it, is simply a continuation of life in a different form.
Do you know what your essence is? Your conscience? The "you behind the physical you?Quote:
Originally Posted by aaj2008
I know it sounds crazy and I am by no means a bible thumper, but I believe there is more to me than my physical form.
Eckert Tolle talks about the "egoic you" vs. the "I am" You are not your story, you are the observer of your story. Again, sounds crazy but he has a very intellectual view that won't turn the stomach of the skeptical.
I believe you think there is something to it or you would not be asking this question. You just want something that resonates as plausible to your intelligence and feels right with your heart. It was either that or you were just setting up some gullible people to get a good chuckle to entertain the ego. Think about it.
To believe in heaven in hell is a control mechanism, designed by religion, to guide the living the way a church decides it should be.
Death as we know it, is simply a continuation of life in a different form.[/QUOTE]
I agree that we are an "energy". Energy never dies, it just changes form.
Yes but don't you fear for the people you love who may be of a different religion or no religion. How could you ever have peace of mind with this ax ready to fall on them?Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggie 3
I'm a christian. Believe that there is a heaven and hell. Have you read the holy bible? It tells you all about that. When you die your spirit leaves your body and goes to a holding place until God calls for judgment. Then you go before him, then he will tell you if you go to heaven or hell.
Yes 2+2=4, 3+1=4, 7-3=4 10-6=4 8/2=4 √16=4 4x1=4 There are many many ways to arrive at 4. Just as there are many paths to " heaven". I believe that heaven is a state of consciousness not a location with lots of angles flying around.Quote:
Originally Posted by needinfo08
So... your 2+2=4 theory does not hold up.
You can read the holy bible all day long, but if you don't believe the bible too be totally factual, then what good is it? That is the important key that bible pushers fail to acknowledge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gift4rmG0d
I was writing my opinion. And that's how I c it.
I'm sorry. I thought you were writing it as fact, not just your opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gift4rmG0d
Cozyk,
You ask about fear I may have for my love ones that may not know the Lord.
As I have grown in knowing the lord I have learned to trust Him. He has said
"For God hath not given us the spirit of fear, but of power, and of love and a
sound mind" II Timothy I:13 "Trust in the Lord with all thin heart; and lean not unto thine onw understanding." Proverbs 3:5 As I have learn for Gods word I let go fears
And put my trust in God or Jesus because that is what He wants us to do. I may not
Know everything but I know when I put my trust in Him I have peace when I was
Fearful. When a thought comes into my mind that would cause me to fear I remind
Myself what Gods word says. All kind of thoughts come into our mind and bad ones
I choose not to think on because I believe they are from the evil one. God is always
In control, but He gives us the choice to choose what we think no. "Be ye trnsformed
by the renewing of your mind." Romans 12:2 We need to think right and if we know
Gods word we can call upon His promies He has made to us. It has taken a lot of
Prayer and learning Gods word, to come into a good understanding of Him and knowing His
Love, and caring for us. "I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be
content." Phill. 4:11 This is what I believe Gods wants in our life.
" God causes all thing to work together for good to those who love God,and those
who are called according to His purpose." Rom 8:28
God Has called us all. This is one verse I say a lot " Be strong and of a good courage;
be not afraid, neither be dismayed; for the Lord thy God is with you wherever you go." Joshua 1:9
I pray this can help you understand why I do not fear but I do pray about everything
And give all my cares to the Lord in Jesus name.
Maggie 3
I understand, that you turn your cares over to the Lord. That you have peace when things are bad, because ultimately, God has your back. I feel this way too. BUT, I could not be at peace, no matter how "rosy" heaven was for me, if I thought that the wonderful human beings in my life, that happen to be atheist were going to end up in some horrible eternal hell. Every day, that I walk this earth would be consumed with thoughts of those I love and their eternal damnation to come. Good for me that I don't believe good spirits go to hell. But, if you believed your atheist friends were going to hell, how could you have a minutes peace?
I know that when fearfull thoughts come into my mind it is from the evil one, not
From the Lord. I am not trusting in the Lord if I give into evil and fearfull thoughts.
"Peace I leave with you, My peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not let your heart be troubled, neither let it be afaid."
Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding"Pro.3:5
"Come unto Me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest"Matt.11:28
I pray you can trust and believe in Gods word and have peace over fear.
Bless you, Maggie 3
In a nut shell this says, "I don't worry about my atheist friend's souls because God instructs me not to. He says be at peace.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggie 3
Let me put it in more earthly terms.
You are driving on a bridge. The car ahead of you is swerving, getting awfully close to the edge. You are not worried or frightened for him because YOU have YOUR peace and trust in the Lord. You see him eventually crash through the guard rail, go over the edge and fall hundreds of feet in the water. Oh well, he will go through an agonizing slow death of being trapped in a car under water, BUT he knew the rules. Drive straight, sober, within the lines, etc. He had his chance and blew it, so I am not worrying about his agony because God said for me to have peace.
Now, imagine that the driver of that car is your son. You still have that peace?
Hello hee:Quote:
Originally Posted by hee
Nahhh. You just go into the ground where the bugs'll eat your eyeballs.
excon
LOL Damn! Not the eyeballs!!
Cozyk, "God is always in control", "and all things work togeather for good for those
who love God and is working according to His purpose". We do not understand why
Things happen the way they do but God does and that is why we must trust Him.
There is a reason for everything Gods does, we may not Know but it is the best
For us and evryone, because God sees the big picture. Worry is the opposite of
Trusting in God. And trusting in God is refusal to giving into fear.
2Timothy 1:7 "God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of
a sound mind." 1John 4:18 There is no fear in love; because fear involes torment. But
He who fears has not been made perfect in love." I was bound in fear for many years,
I new the Lord but not the way God wanted it. I called out to the Lord for help and
Read His word and did not let up until I was delivered and had peace and it took time
But I was so bound up in fear I could not do muc any way. Call on the Lord and keep
Asking He will hear you and answer you. PERFECT LOVE CAST OUT FEAR
Maggie 3
There is something in all these bible verses just makes me irked. :mad: Let me put it in even simpleier terms. According to the bible and the christian beliefis this is how it goes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggie 3
Believe that Jesus is the son of God and you will be saved and go to heaven.
Don't believe this for any number of reasons, you will burn in hell.
It's absolute, it's black and white and the most absurd thing I can think of.
BECAUSE, You can live a hate filled life doing harm to others, but as long as you believe and ask forgiveness, Welcome to heaven.
You can live the most generous loving giving help to others life, be born into a jewish family or been born in another part of the world that is not christian, even die giving up your life for another, and go to hell.
Is this not the bottom line for salvation according to the bible and the christian belief?
Tell me if I am wrong, but please don't give anymore scripture to me.
There is something so terribly wrong with that bottom line concerning what happens after we die. It makes no sense.
[I] respect other peoples choices. We all have a right to believe in what ever we choose
I have not and will not judge other people .I am a christian and believe in the bible as truth for me.I do not judge others I do tell people what I believe and what has helped
Me through my 77 years of life . What is thruth in my life does not mean it can be true in your life. I am sorry if I have offended you, God is the judge of all, and He is the only one that is qualified to judge. Thank the Lord we all have choices.
Have a good life.
Maggie 3
Cozyk – I wanted to add my two cents to the discussion. I feel that I agree with you about some of the things you noted above.Quote:
Originally Posted by cozyk
First off, I cannot speak for other Christians but I can speak for myself. To your question “Can I live a hate-filled life, doing harm to others and in the end just ask for forgiveness and be welcomed to Heaven?” I agree that if this were the case, it would be absurd because it is absurd. I agree with your judgment about this, definitely. I know you don't believe the bible but please allow me to quickly summarize what I believe it has to say about this subject. Basically, real faith—in order for it to be real in the bible's sense of real—will be accompanied by a radical change in the way I live my life. Certainly, the most profound example of this radical change would be in the way that I treated others. If I was never seeking to love others and never seeking the good of other people but I claimed to be a Christian, I personally would wonder if any claim I could make about being a follower of God would be credible. At the same time, I may inwardly desire to be loving and really try to do that in my life but I may fail at it…but hopefully in time I can learn the wisdom to love others as I ought to. In other words, I may desire to love God and love others but do a poor job of it at times but during my life, I can really demonstrate that I truly do love God and others by the consistency of my words and deeds. Ultimately, cozyk, none of us does these things as we should. But as a matter of principle, a real “Christian” is one who has understood that faith isn't just about saying a prayer and acting according to a “Christian” script; a real faith must reach deep down into my heart and transform me and the way I go about my life in order for it to mean anything to God…certainly with respect to eternal life in heaven.
Secondly, will people who live in another part of the world that is not Christian, or born into a Jewish family go to hell? No. To me, it's not a matter of strict affiliation—it's not a matter with God of not being born in the right place or under the right conditions; origin of country or familial ties are not disqualifiers with God. That's a myth. One need not necessarily ever hear the story of the bible to be saved, in my opinion. First off, people in the Old Testament never heard of Jesus and yet Hebrews Chapter 11 says that God honored their faith and granted them mercy. The point with God isn't about what we know or do not know, the starting point is believing first of all that God exists and that he is good (Heb 1 – “he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him). Now, I would want to qualify what I mean by that. Basically, the story of the New Testament is a story that will ultimately sort out people. I may live in a remote village somewhere and never hear the story of the bible, but if God has opened my heart and eyes, when given the chance to respond to the gospel story, I would believe it. But hearing the story and hearing about Jesus is not a requirement for eternal life because God could choose to be merciful to a tribesperson somewhere in the remotest part of the world and never give that person the opportunity to learn the bible.
Lastly, the problem that exists with human beings isn't ultimately a problem that exists solely between you and I. Like you said, people can spend their entire lives serving others and seeking to do good to others. We may be impressed with that and conclude that surely such a person would have favor with God, right? Ultimately, the issue is with that person and God. I may love others but really hate God. To me, my beef isn't with you or the next person, my beef is with my creator. The bible says that we are hostile towards God. We are more interested in seeking the approval of others than we are with God. We will sometimes go to great lengths to ensure our reputation in the eyes of others is intact but never seek to look at how God sees us. The greatest tension in the bible is whether we will really take a good look at ourselves and acknowledge our guilt before God: we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.
Cozyk, I have reflected back on some of our earlier conversations and I really feel that I have been unloving…listen, I really mean that, OK? I'm not blowing smoke or being condescending. Please forgive me. I do, however, stand behind what I am saying here. I stand behind some of what I did say earlier but I think that my attitude and heart were not in the right place with how I said those things. Again, I know you do not believe the bible so if you are offended by it, I will not apologize for that. In that case, I think it is between you and God. But as far as you and me, I would want to be free in my conscience in knowing that I have personally apologized to you.
Sincerely.
What was prior to when you were born ?
Can u know it then certainly u can know what will happen when u die , or life after death?
You seem to be implying that anything invisible or intangible doesn't exist! How about your mind? Or freedom, justice, equality, truth or love?Quote:
Originally Posted by aaj2008
You are equating "you" with your body. Will the bugs eat your mind as well?Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Hello tony:Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyrey
They are eating my mind as we speak.
excon
They must be intangible bugs :) I'm sure it's nothing to worry about...
You're spirit is you. You are in a body. When you die, you leave your body. If you believe in past lives, then you come back and start new. If you are a Christian, then, you got to wait till Jesus comes back... And to the guy saying you die and that's it. Well kid. You'll find out the hard way. Because faith is an idea, and you cannot touch it. You know it.
Nah you just die.
The end:
Oh and @tonyray: The thing is toney that justice, equality don't exist and although love and all those emotions exist they are in no way intangible they are just the sum of experience, genes, hormones and possibly pheromones and the mind is just a side-effect of all the neural functions in your brain and that side-effect disappears when your neural functions stop functioning.
Ive been in three different religions and read many "revised bibles" and I have noticed its all the same, there's some type of everlasting "greater being" that winds up invisible and has the power to do a great amount of good which is supposedly his mission. And eventually you die but if you were NICE and not NAUGHTY u would get presents errr, I mean go to some kind of paradise. Im not saying a god doesn't exist I'm just saying he's been little help except starting a few religious wars, and has the charicteristics of an imaginary friend. So tell me why when one man has a imaginary friend he's considered insane but when millions of people worship one they're considered "enlightened". Also if there isn't a god doesn't that mean that all religious citizens including the pope have simply wasted their lives but uif there is one then I guess all atheist have an ironic surprise awaiting for them. Basically all I'm saying is that every religion is wrong and if there is a god we know nothing about him, I mean for all we now he/she could be an alien.
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