Ask Me Help Desk - What are two absolutes that exist in eternity and never change?

Quote:

Originally Posted by worthbeads

The laws of time and space. Our interpretation of time and space may change, but the laws themselves will not.

Given the history of Einstein, Galileo, and Kepler I can’t help but be skeptical. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by worthbeads

The laws of time and space. Our interpretation of time and space may change, but the laws themselves will not.

Nice.

One thing though... I believe the bender quote in your signature was "Must be my lucky shades" in that episode (instead of lucky specs). Leela's old boss was the one who said "Oh my various gods, they're x-ray specs!" That's my favorite episode, especially since the title has the word "Requisitioned" in it.

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Originally Posted by Dark_crow

Given the history of Einstein, Galileo, and Kepler I can’t help but be skeptical. :)

Hes saying that the laws don't change. People used to think that the sun revolved around the earth. They were wrong, but that didn't make the fact that the earth revolves around the sun any less true.

People used to think leeches cured sickness. That didn't make it true, people were just wrong.

We may be wrong about what we think the laws of spacetime are right now, but whatever they are, they don't change.

So everyone, in all this meaning less/ful thread, what is the real answer that everyone agrees on ;)

Eternity does exist that much I know, but does anything other than the Creator exist before time,during time and beyond time?
As someone said the stars have a limited timespan, the universe itself seem to have begun with a Bang and that means there was a time when everything within the universe did not exist.

Is that philosophical enough!? ;)

And Chris,
"We may be wrong about what we think the laws of spacetime are right now, but whatever they are, they don't change."

I agree with the humans assumed as laws may not be correct, but as space and time was non existent long ago then how can we say they don't change?

"Comments on this post by firmbeliever
retsoksirhc agrees: You bring up a good point. I don't know that they existed, if, in fact, there was a devine creation. I can't discredit religions to make my statement."

Hey Chris,

Are you not agreeing with me in that time and space not existing long ago?:)
I thought it was scientific theory that the universe began with the big bang and has been changing since then and that it was non existent before then.

Would like to hear your thoughts.. :)

I think Change and Questions are two absolutes that exist and never change.

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Originally Posted by encyclopedia

I think [F]Change and [F]Questions are two absolutes that exist and never change.

Probably so. But, it all depends on what someone thinks about it. There can be many variables.

Quote:

Originally Posted by firmbeliever

Hey Chris,

Are you not agreeing with me in that time and space not existing long ago?:)
I thought it was scientific theory that the universe began with the big bang and has been changing since then and that it was non existent before then.

Would like to hear your thoughts..:)

As I understand it, the universe still existed, but in a very compressed state. I'm still not saying that time didn't exist, I'm just saying that some people don't believe in the big bang theory, and instead believe that God created everything out of nothing. While I maybe not believe so myself, I can't discredit their opinion, so I agree that if they're right, then the laws of spacetime did change when it happened. Not saying that it actually happened, just that it could have.

Chris
I agree the Almighty created the universe out of nothing with a Big bang...
How does that sound?

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Originally Posted by firmbeliever

Chris
I agree the Almighty created the universe out of nothing with a Big bang...
How does that sound?

It sounds like your opinion. I disagree, in that I think there was the same amount of matter before the big bang, but it was concentrated to a small area. Then a large amount of energy caused it to expand explosively.
That's what I choose to believe, though either one might be true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by retsoksirhc

Hes saying that the laws don't change. People used to think that the sun revolved around the earth. They were wrong, but that didn't make the fact that the earth revolves around the sun any less true.

People used to think leeches cured sickness. That didn't make it true, people were just wrong.

We may be wrong about what we think the laws of spacetime are right now, but whatever they are, they don't change.

We can no more be certain about the extended future than if we based our beliefs from reading the future in the entrails of pigs and the ashes of logs; that said: Just who wrote the Laws? To my knowledge language is part of social reality. What is really being said is that things are what they are, and although true, it is a useless truth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by firmbeliever

Chris
I agree the Almighty created the universe out of nothing with a Big bang...
How does that sound?

It sounds absurd.

Okay, from a scientific point of view, the two things that you MIGHT be able to get scientists to agree are eternal are Mass-Energy and Entropy Increase.

But, then again, nobody understands the physics of the first few fractions of a second of the big bang, so maybe these things were determined then and didn't exist before, so they certainly weren't eternal.

That's why I said MIGHT :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capuchin

Okay, from a scientific point of view, the two things that you MIGHT be able to get scientists to agree are eternal are Mass-Energy and Entropy Increase.

But, then again, nobody understands the physics of the first few fractions of a second of the big bang, so maybe these things were determined then and didn't exist before, so they certainly weren't eternal.

That's why I said MIGHT :)

I can buy into kinetic energy, but not sure about mass-energy, given the properties may change. As far as Entropy Increase; I think we need a better understanding of Entropy.

However, I can agree with the might!

Mass and energy are equivalent and mass-energy cannot be destroyed (in any scenario that we know of - i.e. it might happen in a black hole or something).

Kinetic energy can be created and destroyed, for example move your hand, you are creating and destroying kinetic energy, it is converting into or from other forms of energy. Energy is normally, for our human range of experiences, never created or destroyed. But einstein tells us that mass can be turned into energy. Thus the total amount of mass-energy in the universe is constant, but mass and energy can both change.

Entropy is often described as a measure of randomness. Heat flows from hotter to colder, in the universe as a whole, this is called the increase in entropy. The rate of entropy increase can change but it should never decrease, and so increasing entropy is eternal (maybe it might decrease in a black hole or at the big bang, nobody knows).

Does that make any sense whatsoever? :P

Is entropy causing global warming??

Not really firm. :)

Hello DC:

"What are two absolutes that exist in eternity and never change?"

I'm going to post my two and then go see who (if anyone) said the same thing.

In fact, I can't think of any more than two, or any less. Eternity 1) has no beginning and 2) has no end.

excon

Thanks Capuchin for clarifying I did not think so either but had to ask to be sure :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

Hello DC:

"What are two absolutes that exist in eternity and never change?"

I'm gonna post my two and then go see who (if anyone) said the same thing.

In fact, I can't think of any more than two, or any less. Eternity 1) has no beginning and 2) has no end.

excon

Ola excon

There doesn’t seem to be any proof of beginning or end.

Wait, I've got another smartarse answer for the original question.

I can name more than two!

E, R, and N.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capuchin

Entropy is often described as a measure of randomness. Heat flows from hotter to colder, in the universe as a whole, this is called the increase in entropy. The rate of entropy increase can change but it should never decrease, and so increasing entropy is eternal (maybe it might decrease in a black hole or at the big bang, nobody knows).

Does that make any sense whatsoever? :P

I would have agreed with you until a few weeks ago. I read on wikipedia (I know, not that reliable of a source, but it makes sense), that entropy is only true on a macroscopic scale. Picture two atoms. The idea of entropy is that eventually, the speed and motion of the atoms will reach an equillibrium. With as little as two atoms, however, it is possible that the atoms could bouce off each other in such a way that the slower moving atom actually gives up some of it's veolicity and the faster one gets faster. Granted, it's likely to happen the other way more often than not. When you add more atoms, you get to take the average of the progression toward equillibrium of all of them. The more atoms, the less stastical chance you have of moving away from equillibrium than toward it. Thus, it only works on a macroscopic scale, still with a teeeeny tiny margin for error, negligible though it may be.

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Originally Posted by Dark_crow

...

How would you answer that question crow ?

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Originally Posted by deist

How would you answer that question crow ?

What question:)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark_crow

...

The only thing that I find absolute and never-changing is man's spiritual quest, I believe it is eternal.

keenu,
That can't be right since many people care zero for spirituality.

That really nice Swedish vodka is one!

...

Oh no, that's Absolut...

*Gutted*

NK, even though many people appear to not care about spirituality I believe that we are each,all 100% of us, involved in our own spiritual quest. That is the basis of all that is, our spirituality, our spiritual being. All stems from that. If you go back in time what is it that you find consistently from the beginning? A search for the truth, a spiritual quest for what, how and why we are here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by keenu

NK, even though many people appear to not care about spirituality I believe that we are each,all 100% of us, involved in our own spiritual quest.

Just because YOU are involved in a spiritual quest does not mean all humans are. Of course you say that everyone needs to worship the Great Flying Spagetti Monster (tasty be his sauce) whether they know it or not, and that includes you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by retsoksirhc

I would have agreed with you until a few weeks ago. I read on wikipedia (I know, not that reliable of a source, but it makes sense), that entropy is only true on a macroscopic scale. Picture two atoms. The idea of entropy is that eventually, the speed and motion of the atoms will reach an equillibrium. With as little as two atoms, however, it is possible that the atoms could bouce off each other in such a way that the slower moving atom actually gives up some of it's veolicity and the faster one gets faster. Granted, it's likely to happen the other way more often than not. When you add more atoms, you get to take the average of the progression toward equillibrium of all of them. The more atoms, the less stastical chance you have of moving away from equillibrium than toward it. Thus, it only works on a macroscopic scale, still with a teeeeny tiny margin for error, negligable though it may be.

I realise that increasing entropy can be broken on a quantum scale, but would you say that the universe is not macroscopic?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capuchin

I realise that increasing entropy can be broken on a quantum scale, but would you say that the universe is not macroscopic?

I didn't say it wasn't macroscopic, I'm just saying that even though the chance of entropy decreasing in something as massive and macroscopic as the entire universe is so negligible that it's almost not worth mentioning, I'd still like to mention it... it was that word 'almost,' so here we are... heh.

So yeah, I agree. Universe=macroscopic, but decrease in entropy is still possible, though insanely improbable.

No beginning no end.

No beginning. No End.
Am I right? I thought about this all night .
This has to be it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Just because YOU are involved in a spiritual quest does not mean all humans are. Of course you say that everyone needs to worship the Great Flying Spagetti Monster (tasty be his sauce) whether they know it or not, and that includes you.

There are no gods to worship in my quest! Spirituality has nothing to do with religion. Spirituality is simply recognition that we exist outside of physical reality. That we exist even when we are not here in a physical body.

Quote:

Originally Posted by keenu

There are no gods to worship in my quest! Spirituality has nothing to do with religion. Spirituality is simply recognition that we exist outside of physical reality. That we exist even when we are not here in a physical body.

Hi Patty

I believe in Spirituality in the sense that it is a type of belonging; and that spiritualities exists outside of physical reality, but I am hesitant to believe, “ That we exist even when we are not here in a physical body.”

Bill:)

I know one is a human's disire to satisfy his own needs above that of others. Often when people join clubs like save the environment it is to satisfy their need to belong. To what extent we help others is the question. To help others feel to receive a sense of belonging is all right. But it isn't if it is for example if you help others because you feel it is the popular in thing to do. For example to join a club dedicated to cleaning up garbage at a local high school. You join the club because you feel like everyone is doing it and you want to flirt with the opposite sex and spoof around. The issue is not something you never have given very much thought into. This might be compensated by how great the act is. Politicians act in the name of self. But they do will do great things in the name of self people will remember them for. There are however many selfless deeds people take on themselves every day without regard for what they need. There is a fine line between what people really need and really want.

1) Everything is always changing.
2) Concrete is going to crack.