Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

How sick can a person be, comparing an 'animal" to a race of people, this is the most racist comparision I have heard on this site.

---

I agree, that was a really racist comparison! Dogs and people are not the same thing at all...

I was involved in a hold-up once, when I worked at a convenience store in high school. The two men who robbed us were of a different race than myself. I was also bit by a dog 2 years ago. The difference is, I don't hate everyone of that race, but I AM frightened of strange dogs now. As much as I like nice friendly dogs, a dog isn't a person, and if it's not well-trained you never know what it's going to do, it's unpredictable. But I don't judge people by those same standards... that's saying that all people of that race are wild animals or robbers or out to get you... ugh.

For the record, I'm not against pit bulls though, as long as they are controlled and well treated.

Pittbulls are so adorable with their cute wittle face. I don't find them scary at all. In fact if one attacked me I wouldn't notice cause Id be laughing my hiney off at the cute little dog trying to get rough. I agree with you chuck and orange. That all sounded racist to me. Why should it be amazing that someone can walk down the street with another race? It sounds like dude thinks they're something to be afraid of and we should all applaude him for this great feat of courage his wife has shown. Toon in next time to see what amazing feat she does next. Tickets go on sale now.

Sadly I live in an area of the country ( not that it may not be everywhere)
Where people fight dogs. They are trained and breed to kill each other.

They tie chains to the dogs and have them pull large truck tires around for building strength, they beat and abuse these dogs often. And when they are no good anymore they kill or abandon these dogs.

These are the often the poor quite "doggies" you may see wondering down the road.

They can tear and do serious damage to a person in minutes. Not just a bite, but even then if you are biten and the dog has not medical records, you can be in for some painful treatment or if the dog is caught the animal will be destroyed for testing.


*** they do basically the same thing with roosters also, but you don't see many of them wondering down the street

This post drives me crazy!
It is not the breed it is the people that breed them!!!!!!!

I have a KILLER PIT BULL in my house; her name is Miss Piggy, a rescue off the streets of Newark NJ. She spends her day in my home with our bunny Christopher Robbins and two cats Peek-a-Boo and Peatoo, running around the house loose and the most she has ever done is lick them to death. She also baby-sits the guinea pigs that come into my home that are abused abandoned and neglected by the human race.

Miss piggy when found was emaciated and dehydrated. When further examined by the vet she was found to have an enlarged heart and a heart murmur, the vet said it was from breeding her at an early age, the reason they feel she was left on the street to die was she also had a prolapsed uterus from over breeding, she did not ask for the life she was handed, it was us, the human race that does this to this breed. Any animal can be made to be mean. She sat in a NO-KILL shelter for two years before we adopted her. They are not KILLERS, the people that train them are.


CHAINING a dog with a heavy chain is cruel, if you have a dog that gets loose, build a kennel that will hold it or better yet give it to some one that can handle it. Miss Piggy stays in her home, in our home and is hand walked because we care and love her.

If you can not care for your dog the way you would want to be treated you should not have a dog or a cat, horse rat, hamster or anything else.

The people that train the pit bulls to be a fighter should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and not allowed to plea it down to a simple fine and walk a way with a mister meaner.

Only when we change the laws for people that do this, will the pit-bull be allowed to become the loving family member it is.

Quote:

---

Why is tethering dogs inhumane?
Dogs are naturally social beings who thrive on interaction with human beings and other animals. A dog kept chained in one spot for hours, days, months, or even years suffers immense psychological damage. An otherwise friendly and docile dog, when kept continuously chained, becomes neurotic, unhappy, anxious, and often aggressive. In many cases, the necks of chained dogs become raw and covered with sores, the result of improperly fitted collars and the dogs' constant yanking and straining to escape confinement. Some chained dogs have collars embedded in their necks, the result of years of neglect at the end of a chain.

---

Please read the following link about chaining your dog

http://www.unchainyourdog.org/Facts.htm

http://www.badrap.org/rescue/owning.cfm

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

Sadly I live in an area of the country ( not that it may not be everywhere)
where people fight dogs. They are trained and breed to kill each other.

They tie chains to the dogs and have them pull large truck tires around for building strenght, they beat and abuse these dogs often. and when they are no good anymore they kill or abandon these dogs.

---

OMG that's sick! Isn't it illegal to do that to the dogs? I'm sure it's illegal here, although if it does happen here at all, I don't think it's often... at least I've never heard of it. And that's something that would be on the local news for sure, if it was occurring. Cock-fights are illegal here too, as far as I know. And you don't ever see dogs wandering around in my city, unless they've gotten loose by mistake or something. Same thing with cats actually. The city has gone a bit overboard and there is a by-law saying that all animals, cats and dogs MUST be licensed and must not be allowed to run loose. If your animal (cat or dog) is picked up, you have to pay a $200 fine to get it out of the pound. The animal control officers even had a door to door campaign, where they'd come and knock on people's doors at random and ask if their pet was licensed. If not they would be told to license it within a week or else face fines! Anyway with all this freaky control I don't think people are being attacked by animals much.

Oh and when I got bit by the dog 2 years ago, that was on a farm, and it was a sheepdog. Actually I don't think I've ever seen a pit bull in real life, but I agree with crankiebabie they have cute faces. :)

Yes they are cute and I have even know a nice one. A fellow priest here in town had one. He had to get rid of it under the new city rules since he could not afford to build an approved pen and he would not be able to ever let it run loose around his property which is not fenced.

But believe me first there are few police in most rural areas and outside city limits there are no animal control at all. In the city there is one young boy who likes to use his dart gun to catch strays.

I got a dog off a sheep farm about a year ago. I had a neighbor who disliked my racially mixed marriage and perhaps my political views, so ( OK I can't prove it was him exactly) but someone tried to poison my dog twice and then finally shot him with a gun.

Well the sherff office did sind a patrol car over, he took some notes, did not take any evidence said a detective would be out in a week or two to investigate. Yep, about 3 months now and no one has came out, I was told they could not report it as a race crme because they did not want it to sound serious. Just shooting my dog was not that big of deal.

My dog was never out of its pen and not on a lesh.

So like many things in the rual area, the officers being paid 7 or 8 bucks a hour with no health inisurance benefits are not going to make their good ole buddies mad and stop them from just hurting some animals.

You can merely drive down a lot of the roads and see the roosters tied with leg ropes in rows and rows using old 55 gallon plactic containser cut in half for a house.

Of course criminal behavior is always there, in Alabama when I used to live there, we had a dry county ( no drinking) but if you went to the correct place and went into the back room , anything you wanted.
Everyone knew it was there, but no one wanted to do anything.

Laws are not worth anything unless enforced. I will change this slightly, take illegal immigrants, police do not even hold them when they find them, because no one want to do anything in our courts with them.

DUI, when the courts only slap their hands, are we really trying to stop it?

As with these laws

After reading my post again and also reading those in response I do see that it was not only a bad analogy but wrong altogether. My apologies to all offended. I never meant it to be racist or to have a racist overtone but it did. Again my apologies...
But to eliminate a specific breed altogether simply for how it was taught by its owner... That's sick outright and beyond ignorant. I could teach a labrador to attack other dogs as well - should they be tagged aggressive Fr_chuck? Lhapso ahpso's are notorious for disliking children but because the bite pales in comparison to the "pitbulls" are they spared from your outlaw? Nowhere in your post did you speak about how wrong the owners had been in teaching the dogs to be aggressive towards other dogs. Simply that they are bred to be aggressive (an owner made trait). Maybe its just a common mindset in your town that even if you teach the dog it should know better than to attack people.
As others have said leave it alone - if you do not like a specific breed then do not own one. If it makes you uncomfortable to walk on the same side of the street with a specific dog, bird or fish for that matter than so be it - no harm done.

Also Fr_Chuck rather than petitioning the outlawing of dogs spend more time petitioning for a stronger police force, along with better animal control and possibly a crack down on animal fights and cruelty in your town rather than being ignorant and acting like it's the dogs fault alone and banning them altogether. Turning a blind eye towards those that bred the animals to be aggressive will not solve the problem unless maybe YOU don't want to make anyone's good ole buddies mad because they are hurting some animals. Pathetic to say the least.

Another thing please change your name you are NOTHING close to a Friar.

Okay its nice that you come back to apologize but to jump on Fr chuck is really uncalled for :mad:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pimpyfly

another thing please change your name you are NOTHING close to a Friar.

---

It stands for Father actually not Friar, and he's a priest, and "Father" is the correct title for a priest.

Father-friar what was I thinking:confused:

Anyhow his stature in life makes it OK? -- you got to be kidding me.

My apologies are for my ignorance in posting without thinking - I didn't do it to earn anyone's approval simply to acknowledge right from wrong.

Father Chucks supposed wisdom should allow greater insight in the matter yet it shows a complete lack of. Should I repent now?? PLEASE

To outlaw a breed of dog? Would our lord almighty allow this -- I truly think not! Lets do the math. If all the American states outlawed "pitbull" breeds what do you think would happen to those dogs found?? Exported to another country? I think not... only death awaits those dogs. And for what... fear breeds ignorance and ignorance can inflict anyone Fathers included.

Well I don't personally think pitbulls should be outlawed, but if someone else (such as Fr Chuck) thinks they should be, then that's his opinion. You have the right to disagree with him, but you shouldn't attack him personally for his beliefs.

Daz right you tell them. I don't think its all about the beliefs its all about someone getting on somebody who got on them. If anyone understands my language here. I just learned it today.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starman

To me the pit bulls are pests.
I can't walk down an alley without worrying about getting bitten. When I see anything resembling a pit bull on a leash I am forced to take evasive action. In my opinion, they should be bred out of existence.

Why aren't they?

---

Animals have natural instincts that can either be nurtured or altered by humans. I'd rather live with a dozen four-legged 'family members' than be accosted in the street by an unleashed two-legged thief, murderer, rapist, child-abuser, terrorist, etc. (who I wish could be made to become extinct - but that's only my opinion). We have a policeman and his dogs live in our street, and also a few rottweilers, and pitbulls, who all get along better than their two-legged neighbors who constantly have something to complain or gripe about. None of these dogs ever bother our cats in the neighborhood either, even though most humans think that cats and dogs don't mix well. Those humans who train their dogs to be mean do it for profit or are just plain evil. And as Labman said, if pitbulls no longer exist, there will be other breeds that these humans will use as an extension of their own meaness. I would suggest you think again of what you should be scared of more.

You are right Orange

To clarify I am not attacking his beliefs regarding his stature. Ive only responded to his belief in outlawing a breed of dogs, and given his stature, more thought should be put into community development to prevent the mistreatment and abuse of dogs and roosters alike rather than condemning them. In a previous post I took the name Fr_Chuck simply as that a name therefor did not apply any credibility to it (its a forum for crying out loud). But seems as it may, he is a priest (still no credibility but ill play along) yet my opinion stands strong.

Good ole buddies... lol


The problem in Fr Chucks town is not stray dogs attacking hapless children or adults -- its no COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lilfyre

This post drives me crazy!
It is not the breed it is the people that breed them!!!!!!!

I have a KILLER PIT BULL in my house; her name is Miss Piggy, a rescue off the streets of Newark NJ. She spends her day in my home with our bunny Christopher Robbins and two cats Peek-a-Boo and Peatoo, running around the house loose and the most she has ever done is lick them to death. She also baby-sits the guinea pigs that come into my home that are abused abandoned and neglected by the human race.

Miss piggy when found was emaciated and dehydrated. When further examined by the vet she was found to have an enlarged heart and a heart murmur, the vet said it was from breeding her at an early age, the reason they feel she was left on the street to die was she also had a prolapsed uterus from over breeding, she did not ask for the life she was handed, it was us, the human race that does this to this breed. Any animal can be made to be mean. She sat in a NO-KILL shelter for two years before we adopted her. They are not KILLERS, the people that train them are.


CHAINING a dog with a heavy chain is cruel, if you have a dog that gets loose, build a kennel that will hold it or better yet give it to some one that can handle it. Miss Piggy stays in her home, in our home and is hand walked because we care and love her.

If you can not care for your dog the way you would want to be treated you should not have a dog or a cat, horse rat, hamster or anything else.

The people that train the pit bulls to be a fighter should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and not allowed to plea it down to a simple fine and walk a way with a mister meaner.

Only when we change the laws for people that do this, will the pit-bull be allowed to become the loving family member it is.




Please read the following link about chaining your dog

http://www.unchainyourdog.org/Facts.htm

http://www.badrap.org/rescue/owning.cfm

---

All of us real animal lovers know that it's the human beast that uses the poor animals as an extension of their inner weaknesses and hate, even to the hidden racists within them. A four-legged stray will love and protect you when treated right. A two-legged would rob you or kill you in your sleep - so guess who's going to be welcome in my home.

This might not be the appropriate thread for this post of mine, But, after reading your post, it made me so mad and sad at the same time. Humans, not animals are the worst beasts on this earth. They show no loyalty to a family as the normal animal instincts do, and it's the human factor that destroys everything that's good about them. In Georgia, we had a neighbor who had an albino boxer and he trained this dog to hate all people that were not caucasian. Was this animal initially born with this hatred? I don't think the human owner was born that way either, but was also trained to hate - through spoiled mother's milk filled with hatred and fear of anything different. Here we are, it's almost 2006, and humanity has not changed much, except instead of using not only other religions as a scapegoat for their failures, but also helpless animals to harm others due to the hatred and frustration within. I agree that the law enforcement agencies worldwide are not paid enough to protect their people - but that too is due to greedy and currupt humans, not animals. You, in your profession teach love and caring for your fellow-men, and it makes me sad that there are some that treat you and your family ill just because of their fear, stupidity and hate. When I encounter people like that, I wonder if their souls are even worth saving and laud you for your strength.
I'm getting off my soapbox now, and wishing you and yours a Happy New Year and many more in peace and tranquility.

Chery

okay, well I own a pure bred german sheperd who weighs 130 lbs. Anyone who thinks that german sheperds are vicouis or mean dont know anything about dogs. Ive been mauled by a pitt bull and once a golden retriever, but that doesnt keep me from loving dogs. I still love both kinds of dogs, but mostly german sheperds. I have grown up with german sheperds since I was born. My parents would lay me down on the floor on my belly when I was a newborn and our german sheperd back then watched over me. She was very nice and she never harmed anyone, except for the time she bit the cows ear off, since we lived on a farm. Now I have a 5 almost 6 year old german sheperd whos name is Esko. If you think hes overweight, hes not, hes actually a little bit underweight, since hes a pure bred, long haired german sheperds. I can do whatever I want with him. Ofcourse if strangers come on his property he barks and growls but he has never bitten anyone, or come close to it. When my dad tries to take his food away, he growls and shows his teeth, but thats just a game to him, otherwise he doesnt eat. Like others have said, it all depends on how you raise the dog(s). it doesnt matter what breed they are. I still love pit bulls and golden retrievers. I hate it when people call my dog a beast cause hes not.
He lets our neighbors kids do whatever they want to him, one time, one of the kids shoved their fingers up his nose, and started poking at his eyes, and all esko did was wiggle his nose and close his eyes, but that was it.

Did you know that the mosquitoes are responsible for killing more people on the earth than any other one thing Malaria is responsible for more than 1 million deaths a year. Malaria is carried by mosquitoes they also carry Dengue fever, West Nile. More people are killed each year by donkeys, than in plain crashes

I am sick of this thread, or at least the people that have their mind made up and disregard the facts showing banning Pit Bulls would only hurt the good owners, and do nothing to help the problem. There are people out there that will process new information and reach logical conclusions.

I decided the next time this thread came up, I would suggest a way for the good dog owners to be more persuasive. It will help with some people if you can say your mean, nasty, man eating Pit Bull is an AKC Certified Canine Citizen. It is an easy test, and the dog doesn't have to be registered. I took advantage of test session to have my old Lab certified. If I quit wasting so much time here, I could maybe do more visits to nursing homes and so forth, and the CGC might make it easier. Likely your local kennel club does testing at some of their events. For more information I even took time to dig up a specific link,
http://www.akc.org/events/cgc/progra...RCH_BUTTON.Y=0 I have already suggested this to lilfrye.

Any properly trained, socialized dog should be able to pass the test. I dislike, well maybe, hate and despise mean dogs of any breed, and more so the people that train them or even tolerate them. If you can't train your dog to pass the CGC test, you should at least spay/neuter it and complaint to the breeder. There is no excuse for breeding or owning aggressive dogs. Since it is difficult to sort out genetics and early socialization, the best thing is to spay/neuter all aggressive dogs. That security dogs need to be aggressive is another myth. It really upsets me when I have my dogs out in public and encounter people that are afraid of them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by labman

I am sick of this thread, or at least the people that have their mind made up and disregard the facts showing banning Pit Bulls would only hurt the good owners, and do nothing to help the problem. There are people out there that will process new information and reach logical conclusions.

I decided the next time this thread came up, I would suggest a way for the good dog owners to be more persuasive. It will help with some people if you can say your mean, nasty, man eating Pit Bull is an AKC Certified Canine Citizen. It is an easy test, and the dog doesn't have to be registered. I took advantage of test session to have my old Lab certified. If I quit wasting so much time here, I could maybe do more visits to nursing homes and so forth, and the CGC might make it easier. Likely your local kennel club does testing at some of their events. For more information I even took time to dig up a specific link,
http://www.akc.org/events/cgc/progra...RCH_BUTTON.Y=0 I have already suggested this to lilfrye.

Any properly trained, socialized dog should be able to pass the test. I dislike, well maybe, hate and despise mean dogs of any breed, and more so the people that train them or even tolerate them. If you can't train your dog to pass the CGC test, you should at least spay/neuter it and complaint to the breeder. There is no excuse for breeding or owning aggressive dogs. Since it is difficult to sort out genetics and early socialization, the best thing is to spay/neuter all aggressive dogs. That security dogs need to be aggressive is another myth. It really upsets me when I have my dogs out in public and encounter people that are afraid of them.

---

I agree, security dogs are not trained to kill, but to protect, and if they have to drop a person down and hold them to do so, then so be it. I hate the humans that purposely train dogs to kill, and think that not only the dogs, but owners should be neutered, but that's only MY opinion and I don't think that they should be allowed to pass on their hatred and fear and insecurity to their children - maybe that would stop the vicious chain.

3 year old girl in Philly got attacked by a pit. She's in the hospital, should be OK. When the cops and SPCA showed up, the dog was wagging it's tail and obeying commands. They all said they were surpised by how friendly and obedient the dog was. Dog was put down today. Owner was fined for not lisencing the dog and no rabbie shots.

I hate tis post would you all please view this link. All dogs are capable of biting... the only time the press covers a dog is if it is a Pit Breed that has done wrong.

This search took me less than 3 minutes to find copy and paste, for every pit breed attack there is another breed doing the same thing.

Baby Girl Killed by Family Dog

Los Angeles, Oct 9, 2000.

An uncle baby-sitting the newborn left the child on a bed unattended while he went to the kitchen to prepare a bottle for her. When he returned, he found the family's Pomeranian dog on the bed attacking the baby.

http://www.dogexpert.com/FatalDogAtt...lifornia00.htm


Child mauled by huskies

Police: Girl, 2, dies after apparent dog mauling
5/6/2005, 2:01 p.m. ET
The Associated Press
WATERFORD TOWNSHIP, Mich. (AP) — A 2-year-old girl appears to have been mauled to death Friday by her family's two Huskies, police said.
Police in this Oakland County community said the dogs were taken into the custody of animal control after the attack shortly before 9:30 a.m. EDT.
The child's mother and grandparents were in the house at the time, police said, and her mother called 911 after the child was found in the backyard. The parents were interviewed, police said, and had not been charged.
Additional information wasn't immediately available.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1398183/posts

SANFORD, Fla. -- Sanford police have launched a criminal investigation after a 7-year-old girl was mauled by a dog in her own back yard this weekend. Police said Harley Baumgartner suffered more than 240 puncture wounds, WESH NewsChannel 2 reported The German shepherd that attacked her has been quarantined by Seminole County's Animal Control. Police are crediting the quick action of an 84-year-old neighbor whose yelling got the dog to back off.
Dewey Reedy said he had just gone outside Sunday afternoon when he heard his neighbors' dogs barking "wildly."
"So I walked out there and this dog was shaking something on the ground. I thought it looked like a rag doll from where I was at. So, I said, 'Well I better walk on over and take a look.' I got over a bit closer to the fence, and by golly, I could tell it was a kid," Reedy said.
He said the child was covered in the blood. He said the dog finally stopped attacking from his and his neighbors' yelling, but he said it took several more yells to finally get the adults who where in the home to come out and help the child.
Investigators want to know why the parents left the child alone to see if there is evidence of neglect.
The girl is in fair condition at Arnold Palmer Hospital but she will need to have extensive plastic surgery.
http://www.wesh.com/news/4345160/detail.html


Death by dog—again

TWO OF THE MOST unpredictable creatures in the natural world are dogs and children. Ask any photographer. On Sunday, alas, that unpredictability erupted in tragedy when 4-year-old Robert Shafer of Orange County strayed too close to the family mutt. The Rottweiler-German shepherd mix, chained up inside a fenced area, killed the boy--the second death by dog hereabouts in recent days. Last month, three roaming pit bulls horribly mauled Dorothy Sullivan, 82, in her Spotsylvania County yard. So what are we to think about man's best friend now?
Despite a deluge of letters to the editor arguing otherwise, some breeds, including Rottweilers and pit bulls, command greater wariness than others. Humans developed specific breeds for specific purposes, and those bred to guard or fight will tend more toward belligerence. To repeat, people don't get dragged down by marauding Yorkies. Within a breed, of course, any individual animal can be placid or mean, but anyone with young children in the home should play the odds and choose a family pet from a breed whose original job was non-confrontational.
Also, dogs don't do well chained up. The Humane Society of the United States explains, "Dogs are naturally social beings who thrive on interaction with human beings and other animals. A dog kept chained in one spot for hours, days, months, or even years suffers immense psychological damage. An otherwise friendly and docile dog, when kept continuously chained, becomes neurotic, unhappy, anxious, and often aggressive." The U.S. Department of Agriculture adds, "Our experience in enforcing the Animal Welfare Act has led us to conclude that continuous confinement of dogs by a tether is inhumane."
A chained dog becomes hyper-territorial, and when a person invades its space, the dog, unable to flee, may, in classic fight-or-flight mode, attack. That could have occurred Sunday, when little Robert Shafer moved within range of "Chance," a pet thought gentle. Localities should seriously consider outlawing the tethering of dogs. After all, if chaining is both (1) cruel to the dog and (2) dangerous to human passersby, why countenance it?
Dogs will always play a big role in human society. As companions, helpers, herders, and protectors, they are first among beasts. But we allegedly smarter creatures must respect their breeding and their psychology. "Children and dogs," said Harry Truman, "are as necessary to the welfare of the country as Wall Street and the railroads." The law should change to help them safely coexist.
Date published: 4/13/2005
http://www.fredericksburg.com/News/F...132005/1731632

This thread is really getting to me too. Our Belgian Shepard, who we adopted at two years, did not like children under the age of 4. She would not attack them, but growl at them and it took me a while to finally figure out what happened. She had full papers and I wanted to bread her at least once. She needed the full credentialing to be able to sell the puppies or even register them. When she got her medical checkup - we noticed that she had a permanent back injury and therefore incapable of being bread. This angered me to no end, and not because of the potential financial gain, but because we found out the previous owners let their little kids use her as a pony! That was the reason of her not liking little kids and ruined her for life. She was a very protective dog though, in our family. Every time my mother tried to beat me in front of her (although I was already 19- and that's another story), she had my mother's arm in her mouth, but never broke skin. She did the same for my bothers. This dog was the sweetest natured one of the larger breeds I had and was really sorry when she died. After her, I stuck to poodles, and bread some beautiful appricots.
This is just another story of what humans make their poor animals go through - a dog is not a damn pony - and not something to train to dislike certain races or train for dog-fights.
I really am sorry for the children that are mauled by dogs, but people must also understand that dogs are the type that have to accept their surrounding as part of their 'family' and non-threatening. Until this happens, the children must always be supervised every second when around these dogs. Once a dog accepts you into it's life, they will even give their life for you - I can't always say the same for humans. Period!

There is also a myth about cats - they do not harm newborns. Cats have to investigate everything that enters their territory (just as dogs) and familiarize themselves with the smell - therefore eliminating stress and accepting into 'their' household. So, I still maintain, that it's the humans that are naïve and paranoid and need to be more educated.

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_1_23.gif http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_2_26.gifIf animals were so dangerous, why do they do more therapeutical benefit in homes for the elderly than those obligatory visits from humans that have already written them off??

One of the reasons for keeping an eye on children and dogs is to protect the dog from the child. There is a limit to the abuse you can count on the dog taking. Children need to be supervised.

Of course we want to eliminate as many hazards as possible. Even simple things like eliminating draw strings on children's clothing has saved lives. Yes we need to eliminate vicious dogs. Banning Pit Bulls is not an effective step. I also would hate to see a ban on tethering dogs just because it is often misused.

There is an excellent article in the current New Yorker magazine (2/6/06, p.38) called "Troublemakers, What pit bulls can teach us about profiling," by Malcolm Gladwell. It is about stereotyping -- which is what the anti-pit bull posters are doing.

Mr. Gladwell presents factual information on dog violence such as statistics on the number of deaths various types of dogs have been responsible for, as well as the results of some other associated studies. You really should read this very thoughtful and well-researched article, but I will try to summarize its findings:

Many different breeds of dogs have been involved in fatal attacks. What most of the attacks had in common was not type of breed, but type of owner, and the type of care (or lack of care) the dog received. The dogs were often chained, hungry, ill-trained, neglected; and their owners often had a history of violence. Some years Rotweillers killed more people, some years Dobermanns -- mostly the numbers seemed to reflect what breed was currently popular with those people who wanted to own a mean dog. Also significant were gender and neutering -- male dogs and unneutered dogs tended to be more dangerous. But in short, mean violent people raise mean violent dogs -- of almost any breed, even Pomeranians.

Hi there to all who read this. Seeings how I am "the light" let me shed a little bit of light on this subject. I, myself was terrified of all big dogs for most of my life. It wasn't until I moved in with someone who owned a Pitbull that I found myself friendly with any big dog. Because I, like a lot of you, no offense, ignorant, people didn't understand how great of creatures big dogs can be. All dogs have a possibility and the tendenacies to be "mean" but what detemines how the dog will be, is the way that it is raised. And there are some people who can not handle raising pitbulls, or any other big dog for that matter. They are very intellegant creatures, that are incredably loveable and affectionate when they are trained and treated right. Unfortunately, there are people who have abused the power of a pitbull for there own personal benefit. You can't blame the behaviors of people with pits on the pitbulls themselves, It's not there fault. And it also unforunate that the same people also "in-breed" them which does cause them to be unstable, but once again you can't blame that on the dog. The actions to stop "aggressive dog behavior" needs to be addressed towards the people who are causing the aggression. Every living thing has the ability to be "aggressive" if it finds that it is nessassary to protect itself and there's. I am now the owner of a 9 month old female pitbull, and I won't lie, she is sometimes a pain in the ***, but what dog isn't. But I knew what I was getting myself into from the get go. Because the are so smart they require extra attention and extra training, it is the people who don't know this and who can't handle it that make these dogs the way there are. I love my little mamma with all my heart because she shows me nothing but love, and only once in these 9 months have I ever seen her even bark aggressively at anyone, and that was simply because this male was threatening my well being. She loves everyone and everyone who meets her loves her, even those, who like yourselves, think that pitbulls are the enemy because once they actually get to interact with her they realize what a great dog she is. So the next time you see a pit, take a second look, and you too just might see how great of a dog they are. But I will also say in the same breath do be careful to not make them feel threaten, let them smell and get fimilar with just like any other dog. It is because of all the close minded people in the world that these great dogs are being banned from so many places, and people like me are forced to move becase other people are simply "scared". I hope that I have helped to open some of your minds to the reality of "aggressive dogs" in general not just pits. And always remember: "Ignorance is bliss, but bliss means nothing without knowledge"

It is common knowledge to everyone except dog fanatics that Pit Bulls were bred to be aggressive and still retain that trait. As for children being a threat to dogs, I never heard of a child ripping a dog's face off with his teeth. Have you? The woman who was recently forced to have a facial transplant is yet another victim. The lady killed in the hallway of her own apartment building some years ago was killed by too large pit bulls. On the Internet, there are sites which tell us which breeds are more prone to bite. Even the Dog Whisperer on the Discovery Channel who is an expert on dogs refers to pit bulls as having a tendency to be very aggressive.

You want to talk about pests? Why don't you talk about the humans:
http://www.realpitbull.com/abuse.html
We're worst than pests, we're monsters, pit bulls are animals and must be taken care of as such, they may bite some one, but we have done much much worse, what they do in instinct we do in cruelty, instead of being so pompous and ignorant and cruel to think that you have the right to say that they should be bred out of existence you should take into account who is the real victim in this tragic reality. You fear what you do not understand, but don't you ever dare to try and think that you have the right to say that an entire species should be eradicated, congratulations, you've adapted Hitler's mindset on Jews



Edit: I'm sorry if I come on rather strong, but I feel very strongly against such horrible treatment of these animals

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Style

You want to talk about pests? Why don't you talk about the humans:
http://www.realpitbull.com/abuse.html
We're worst than pests, we're monsters, pit bulls are animals and must be taken care of as such, they may bite some one, but we have done much much worse, what they do in instinct we do in cruelty, instead of being so pompous and ignorant and cruel to think that you have the right to say that they should be bred out of existance you should take into account who is the real victim in this tragic reality. You fear what you do not understand, but don't you ever dare to try and think that you have the right to say that an entire species should be eradicated, congratulations, you've adapted Hitler's mindset on Jews



edit: I'm sorry if I come on rather strong, but I feel very strongly against such horrible treatment of these animals

---

No need to be sorry since you are entitled to your opinion. : )
In any case, I am NOT advocating the infliction of physical or emotional pain on these animals. Where you get this concept I don't know. Neither am I attributing evil to animals. Furthermore, Pit Bulls are not a species. They are simply a variety which occurs within a species due to human manipulation via breeding. So it does NOT involve the extinction of a species. It involves the changing of a variety.

Yes, I agree that humans can be and have been monsters.
What you fail to mention is that such monstrous acts are condemned by society and considered punishable by imprisonment or execution.
As a matter of fact, the Bible tells us that humans who insist on behaving that way will eventually be removed from the earth. Read Revelations.

As for the Jews, there was absolutely no moral justification for what the Nazis did and it shouldn't be placed on the same level as the refinement of a
variety of dog in order to make it a better animal in relation to human society. Why you as a pet owner would want to keep these animals in the form that they exist right now speaks volumes about your values.


Excuse me if I came on a bit strong but when I see a young child's face entirely ripped off, or a woman being savagely bitten on the breasts it kind of bothers me to see you say these are just minor inconveniences. I strongly doubt that you would be singing the same tongue-in-cheek-pro-Pit Bull song if it had been your face ripped off or if it had been your son who was killed or your wife, sister, or mother whose breasts had been bitten simply because the dog was bred to be a bit too aggressive.

I have been mauled by a dog before, granted it was a Chow, not a pitbull, but same concept. Never once did I use the term "minor inconveniences" in my post, and granted there are some vicious attacks, but frankly these are animals, not sentient creatures like ourselves, we do cruel acts to these creatures with little regard for them, whereas their attacks are based off a combination of instincts and memory of past experiences, sure some pits are just bad, some weird chemical set up in their brain or something that makes them nastier than usual, but you can not use the minority to judge the breed.

The application to the mindset of Hitler was in relation the idea that Hitler had no justification for mass genicide, neither would someone who wants to exterminate the entire species simply because they are afraid of the minority that is nastier than usuall.

For a man who claims to know dogs it seems rather strange that you should insist on calling pit bulls a species. In any case, my suggestion is the reduction of excessive aggressiveness through breeding. What was bred in can be bred out as has been proven with other formerly excessively aggressive dog breeds. Why you would find that an inconvenience or offensive is way beyond me. On the other hand, there are some dog owners who find this breed's intimidation factor useful. But there are other breeds which can do the job much more efficiently and without the unnecessary danger of the dog's losing control due to INBRED aggressive tendencies and ripping someone's face right off.

No, you don't say right out that such incidents are a minor inconvenience.
Yet you generally come across as pro dog and anti human.
It is not essential for you to be anti human in order to be pro dog.
Yet you repeatedly keep making the dog/human comparison as if to justify
Dangerous dog behavior. This reminds me of a recent event that took place locally at a Farmer's Market Show where a cougar got lose and clamped its jaws on a child's neck.
All you could hear the cougar's owner say as they tried to help the child was was--"Don't harm my cougar!" In short, the cougar's life was to him more valuable than this kid's. Rather weird don't you think?

You say that the minority of Pit Bulls are responsible for the mangling, disfigurements and deaths and that because it is the minority no effort should be made to change this breed's aggressive tendencies? I say that if it will save one child's life or save one human from the agony of disfigurement, then it is worth the effort. If indeed this aggressive tendency is of no use to you, why are you so against it being bred out??


BTW

Dogs are sentient.



Merriam Webster's Dictionary

Main Entry: sen·tient
Function: adjective
Pronunciation: 'sen(t)-sh(e-)&nt, 'sen-te-&nt
Etymology: Latin sentient-, sentiens, present participle of sentire to perceive, feel
1 : responsive to or conscious of sense impressions
2 : AWARE
3 : finely sensitive in perception or feeling
- sen·tient·ly adverb

Quote:

---

If indeed this aggressive tendency is of no use to you, why are you so against it being bred out??

---

Do you honestly think it's possible to breed out a specefic trait? You would have to eradicate the species if you wanted to change an entire breed's disposition, furthermore you mentioned breeding out the entire species, not the trait in the first place

Quote:

---

To me the pit bulls are pests.. . They should be bred out of existence.

---

I'm not pro-dog or pro-human, you have your perception of my character wrong, when there's an animal attacking a human child, well it may have perfect justification such as the child getting in the dog's personal space, but in my mind the child must be saved by whatever means possible, preferably with no harm to the dog, but I'm not above harming an animal to save a human. However I AM against attacking the entire breed when the majority of the breed isn't bad natured... that's like attacking Russia because we know that they could be an aggressor nation and have the power to inflict harm, even though the majority of the people have no designs against the US.

My apologies for phrasing it in that manner.
I am not against the breed itself. I am against the strong aggressive tendencies. Yes, I believe that aggression can be bred out because it has been done to other aggressive dog breeds. In fact, they look more or less the same as they did when they were aggressive. The only difference is that now they are safer pets. So since it is possible, and this tendency is causing horrendous tragedies, why not do it? Better yet, why are you against it and describing it as an attack? I don't think that because most are well behaved we should keep playing Russian Roulette with our children by assuming that the Pit Bull we give him as a pet belongs to the docile majority you keep mentioning.

BTW
If Pit Bulls were a species they would either be unable to breed with other dogs or else their offspring would suffer from degrees of sterility as happens when you mix a donkey with a horse and get a mule. But such is not the case since you can cross a pit bull with any of the other varieties of dogs.

Ah yes I'm aware of my earlier misnomer, calling them a species, luckily we're working on evolution in my bio class so I got a nice little reminder about that, my apologies for the misnomer. And to clear things up if you think that you can get rid of aggressive tendencies through breeding without killing any of the existing animals or changing the appearance of the breed, then by all means do what you will, I have no problems with that, do you have any information about this having done in the past? I just find it hard to believe that that is possible.

Hi,
The previous answers are very good and interesting to read.
I do agree with laws banning Pit Bulls, as I have said earlier in this thread. The reason is the Owners; not the dogs. Most owners need to be trained, so they can know what they are up against; but the Owners will not seek out help, guidance, classes, or even buy a Video showing how to train their dogs. Pitt Bulls are not the only aggressive breed. There are Chihuahuas, Dobermans, German Shepards, some Terriors, and others that are just as aggressive. But, the Pitt Bull seems to have gotten the most media coverage.

I thought it was interesting that in our local area, about 200 miles from where I live, is a community (small town) that is soon to adopt a "community" ordinance; saying it is against the law for any family with children under the age of 8 yrs old, to have a dog!! This particular community has had a significant number of dog bites to children, being treated by a Doctor.

If you wish to view a Great Dog show on TV, it's on NGEO channel (National Geographic), on Friday nights, and some other days sometimes; called the Dog Whisperer, and features Ceaser Millan, based in CA, and has now written a book, and also has a Video about aggressive dogs. He is a Dog Behaviorist, and Trains People! This points out the necessity of "people training", to know what to do with aggressive dogs, of which there are many pure breeds, as well as mixed breeds.
Best wishes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Style

Ah yes I'm aware of my earlier misnomer, calling them a species, luckily we're working on evolution in my bio class so I got a nice little reminder about that, my apologies for the misnomer. and to clear things up if you think that you can get rid of aggressive tendencies through breeding without killing any of the existing animals or changing the appearance of the breed, then by all means do what you will, I have no problems with that, do you have any information about this having done in the past? I just find it hard to believe that that is possible.

---

There was a documentary given on Comcast Cable Service here in the USA which compared the different breeds of dogs and mentioned how some previously aggressive breeds had been toned down via interbreeding. I could easily get this info for you on from the net if my computer were functioning properly but it is barely functioning at all. All I get is the following message whenever I try to surf to more than one site.

Action canceled
Internet Explorer was unable to link to the Web page you requested. The page might be temporarily unavailable


So I'll see if they still have the documentary available on Comcast and if so will post the breeds that they mentioned.

I have a Pitt that I adopted at a local shelter.. she was only 4 months old when I got her, and normally, Pitts are not adopted out there. She was within 12 hours of being euthanized... Luckily, I had just happened to go that day, to take some bags of dog & cat food to donate... anyway, "Alexis" is now 7 yrs old, and she has been nothing but a joy to me and my family. She even raised 2 kittens, along with her 3 pups a few years ago. (She has since been neutered). I wouldn't take anything for this dog, and she has never been aggressive towards anyone. I get very angry when people make remarks like "I can't believe you'd have a Pitt Bull in your house" , or "when she turns on you, you'll regret having her", etc...

I don't believe that Pitts are the right dog for just anyone.. a Pitt owner needs to have common sense, as well as "dog" sense, but to imply that these beautiful, intelligent dogs should just be exterminated, is totally ignorant.

Alexis is a member of our family, and she is one of the friendliest, gentle dogs, that I have ever owned

I feel really sorry for you that you are so narrow minded. Please do everyone a favor and read up on this breed. I cannot stand people like you and I usually wouldn't even take the time to talk to someone like you, but I feel it is necessary to teach about this breed. I work at a petstore and a vet and am around every type of dog breed every day. The pitbull terrier is one of the friendliest and smartest dogs out there. It would be a shame to get rid of this breed (though it isn't possible) because they bring so much joy to peoples lives. There are therapy and canine good citizen pitbulls that are very popular and have hundreds of cases where a pitbull has saved someone's life! Just because humans have made SOME pitbulls aggressive, does not mean that they all aggressive! Continuously breeding is the reason for such aggression because ignorant people are always trying to make them bigger and meaner for security reasons. Also half the supposed pitbull attacks aren't even pitbulls. They are labeled pitbulls if they resembled them or are mixed. If the news sees that it is a lab-pit mix, they say it's a pit! I read a story earlier today actually that made me sick to my stomach. A boy was being attacked by a rottweiler and a pitbull went after the dog, saving the boys life and had the dog (twice his size) pinned to the ground until help arrived. The news didn't even acknowledge that the rescuer was a pitbull, but there was a picture and clearly, that was the breed. No one knows unless they have experienced living with a pitbull or being around them. I agree that there no reason that anyone should ever get attacked by ANY DOG, but the reason for it is humans and their breeding! And your comment about getting rid of the breed. It is impossible. There are too many across the world, and mixed in almost every dog you see at the shelter. People love them too much and I don't see them ever going anywhere but up. One day they will be back at the top of breeds like it used to be when people like you stop being so ignorant!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starman

To me the pit bulls are pests.
I can't walk down an alley without worrying about getting bitten. When I see anything resembling a pit bull on a leash I am forced to take evasive action. In my opinion, they should be bred out of existence.

Why aren't they?

---

There are no bad dogs. Just bad owners.

This post is so old and I wish it had stayed buried. I am tired of looking at it and a few others like it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starman

To me the pit bulls are pests.
I can't walk down an alley without worrying about getting bitten. When I see anything resembling a pit bull on a leash I am forced to take evasive action. In my opinion, they should be bred out of existence.

Why aren't they?

---

The pit bull problem is a people problem. End of story. I think the people who refuse to learn about what it takes to be a responsible owner should be bred out of existence.

So, Starman, what kind of alleys are you walking down and why are you purposefully putting yourself in harm's way? Doesn't sound like you are making smart choices in where you choose to wander. Maybe you should be more careful about what part of town you hang out in. Come by my place. I will introduce you to a pitbull that has been properly trained. The black flies hanging around my property will be the only things you have to worry about biting you.:cool: