I would still think it is better to face the reality of the situation and deal with whatever comes with it. Denying reality is unhealthy, psychologically speaking, and continued patterns of such behavior can really cause some problems down the line.

This does not mean one sits and cries for days on end and digs a hole and lives in it. No. It means to look seriously at what happened, learn from it and apply the knowledge to life ahead. You don't have to suffer in public, such as putting ashes on your face for suffering, but you are at least honest with your inner self. Every experience, even the very painful ones, lends to our maturity.

Learning to accept reality and move forward, will go along way in keeping you grounded and in control of your feelings. Saves a lot of confusion on what should I do next. That's why I always say give those exes what they want, and focus on you being healthy, and happy. Leave them alone until YOU feel better.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

keeping you grounded and in control of your feelings.

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Well said for the whole post. But this bit is very important. As we develop feelings for someone and attachment to someone, it can be very hard to deal with the emotions that remain once the person is closed off from us.

Regognising your high and low emotional states is important, because its in these states of mind that you act irrationally. Keeping grounded and of a normal emotional state is important. Allways try to Centre yourself...

Is it better to be friends with a girl first before you ask her out or is it better to pull her as soon as you meet her ?

No!

In saying that its great to be a friend but if you want to get in with a girl you have to be the right friend! If you thinkyou can be the friend who is like agirlfriend and get in NO WAY!!

But if you can be the guy friend who is not available for the crap shoulder to cry on but the FUN friend who she always wants to be around but is always busy then YES!!

If you wnt a girl don't ever become the NICE friend or she will see you as just that a FRIEND while some hrk off sweeps her from under you!!

Mckenzie said it perfectly. I speak from experience that you should not be a best friend to a girl before you date her. NEVER be the nice guy that she can spill everything to and you do everything for her. Be a man. There's a difference between being a boyfriend and being friendzoned, and once you are in the friendzone, it's very hard to get out.

Read some of my old threads and you'll find out all about where being a nice guy gets you. I'm learning myself that I need to stick up for myself more.

I agree completely. As a female voice here. The guys that have "pulled me" (lol that so funny to me) who started as friends were my crazy fun guy friends. The guy I could always call to go do something fun. That guy established himself as the guy who was into getting to know me but was not there as a shoulder to cry on. He was nice but not a doormat. The friendships were always high energy (its the best way to describe it). Lots of banter back and forth and flirting. They were also guys I could depend on which is important because that leads to a girl going hey, I have lots of fun with him, we flirt and I can depend on him maybe we should kick this up a notch!

However I would like to say that if the romantic relationship does not work the friendship dies. It always does and it is for the best.

Hello.

To be friends you need to get to know each other and the best way to get to know each other is to go out and do things together. When you ask her if she wants to go to a movie or to the mall, that is a date. All dates don't need to be romantic sexual dates. The best dates are relaxing dates that flow, where your both doing what feel right at the time. It could be holding hands as you walk around the mall or in a movie and that could lead to a kiss and so on. If it happens in it's own time it will be special.

In a nut shell enjoy being around her. If the two of you get along and start doing things together then let time lead you into a relationship. You can't force a relationship and make it work, it never will.

Dennis777

I agree with the others. Do not become one of her girlfriends or else you'll never get to the level you want with her.

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Originally Posted by onlineguy

Is it better to be friends with a girl first before you ask her out or is it better to pull her as soon as you meet her ?

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Friends because then she will feel comfortable being around you and when the moment is right you will know then you will ask her out but do not aask her out before then because I should know I am a girl it happened to me before

ATTENTION! : THE FOLLOWING POST IS A BIG SLAM ON WOMEN, IF YOU DO NOT WISH TO READ THIS, PLEASE, SKIP BELOW TO SOMETHING MORE SENSIBLE AND CREDIBLE.

I find that women don't really last too long single. They generally tend to hop from boyfriend to boyfriend, and usually its within a circle of friends. So my short answer is yes, you should probably be friends with her first.

A this isn't a race
B you don't know what you're getting yourself into
C this is mostly going to be her decision not yours
D have some confidence, she'll figure out you're cooler than anybody else for herself.

Women want what they can't have. I recently began seeing somebody new seriously, and all the girls that couldn't give me the time of day when I was interested are now looking for any excuse possible to call me. I don't get it. Women don't get it. They don't deny it either, so officially, nobody gets it. Be a disinterested friend for a while and see what happens.

ForeverZero - you need to add the caveat that this is how IMMATURE women act.

I know of no one who has ever behaved in such a fashion.

Whenever I become friends with a guy first I keep it that way. I have had guys start as my friend and then try to cross the line. This only results in them no longer being a friend because they crossed the friendship line.

I think you can get to know somebody slowly but always let it be known that you are interested in being more than friends. Of course it is usually easier if you don't get intimate while you figure things out.

I don't think you understood the original post. She state that I'm not going to date a guy best on looks alone.

Looks are important and even to women. There has to be an attraction of some kind for a women to consider dating you. Its not all about the looks if that is the question. The percentage based on the makeup and experiences of the woman in question. I don't think you understood the original post. She is says that I'm not going to date a guy best on looks along.

An attactive man comes in a room see this woman in nice black dress. He comes to her says have that dress looks very good on you, but it would look better on my bedroom floor. I doubt he would get anywhere with this woman.

Rewind the situation

Same guy comes in and instead of that stupid line he comes to her and introduces himself and ask her name and say a decent conversation. He has a fighting chance. (Even an unattactive person has a chance)

I have heard this from loads of girls, that they like a guy and don't let him know. Then complain about not being asked out or about the guy they are with that they don't fancy.

Guys can be just as shy as girls, nothing stopping them initiating. But why don't they ?

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Originally Posted by onlineguy

I have heard this from loads of girls, that they like a guy and dont let him know. Then complain about not being asked out or about the guy they are with that they dont fancy.

Guys can be just as shy as girls, nothing stopping them initiating. But why don't they ?

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Because men are from Mars and women are from Venus. Men and women different. Men don't think like women and women don't think like men. We are different. Girls don't tell a guy they like him because they are afraid of getting hurt. The same reason why it is hard for a guy to ask out a girl. They don't want to get hurt. Best advice to you is girls love confidence and take a risk. No risk--no reward.

Another reason I know is that men always do not cherish girls who make first move! And this is very commen in china!if girls make first move,maybe they get there,but in such kind of relationship,men always not serious as girls,and it seems they are always ready for break-up,because they think it is the girl who make the first move,if I found something wrong with her or found another girl more beautiful or more sexy or more rich... then break up with that girl easily without hesitation,if that girl don't want end-up,then men treat her like street girl,"easy come,easy go",something like that!such kind of things happened to several of my friends and classmantes! There is a story! A & B are best friends,C is my classmate,A fell in love with my classmate when he first saw her,when A decided to ask C for a date,he went to see C with B,but C like B at the very moment when she saw him!B confessed he has the same feeling for C after C made first move! They became boyfriend and girlfriend.but after several months later,C felt B was not serious with this relationship,and all of us can tell that from their activities,B always had to follow up B's schedules,no matter she likes or not.if B wanted to see her,then fine,if not,C had to stay away from him,can't bother him.lovers like to spend weekend together,but B don't think so,date out or not depends on his mood!sometimes they go to hotel for sex,B never pay for the hotel,B never bought gifts for C even in important days. All of us said B did not deserve C to do so many things for her,but C said she loved him,and always pretended she was so happy with him.another several months later,they borken up! And B was with another girl soon although C tried so hard to get him back!
Maybe such kind of stories do not happen in other country,but I believe this is very common in china! If girl makes first move,then man believe this girl must be very open,just like street girl,does not deserve their true love,they can have a try with this girl,but the ending always is unhappy!sounds unfair but it is true! So sometimes I think chinese men are totally ,I don't want to be rude,but it is true again!

You know what! In that condition, when girls ask guys for reason of break-up,guys said" it is you who make first move"!sometimes they think girls make first love,it means she must love me more,then I have no need to pay sepcial attention or show sepcial care to her,she is there,maybe always there!why not have a try?if found unsuitable,then break up without responsibility or guilty!even no need to make excuses for break-up.And men always think that kind of girls do not deserve their cherish and love! It is very true in China! I mean in china!Normally,men live in west world do not care about that!right?

Here's my straight up: If a man isn't confident enough to make the first move on me, he's not going to be able to handle me in the long run anyway. I have made the first move on guys, but long-term those guys just aren't assertive enough to deal with my personality. Everybody has a different reason for not wanting to make the first move. For me, it's because my first test to see if you'll have "the goods" to really date me is to see if you have "the goods" to make a move on me. Everybody's different, but I'm not the only girl I know who uses that as a screening technique.

Often girls that have made the first move are treated by the guy like they are T00 aggressive, a big flirt or tease, or 'they must be a slut' etc... And often when the girl has to make the first move she most likely isn't what the guy wants anyway... unless he does want an assertive aggressive woman

Its like this. "if he doesnt have the guts to ask me out, hes not worth my time."

If interested in someone, is it better to show a definite statement of intent that you want to be with them and suffer the possibility of rejection!

Or is it better to show indications that you like the person and wait to see if this is reciprocated ? If it is fine, if its not then you know and do not suffer any perceived rejection.

What are your thoughts.

I don't understand what you mean by "show a statement of intent". A statement, literally, is something you say, not show. Dating is a game and it really helps if you play with someone who likes you a lot.

I agree with George. Don't be too forward, at least not at the beginning. And also, the more the person likes you, the more forward you can be. Feel it out and test the waters a little bit. Good luck.

Like, you should write up a letter on your lawyer's letterhead..

In the first instances of meeting someone it is natural for us all to form an opinion about the person. The initial opinion is of appearance, i.e. do we find the person to be attractive or not. (It is said that this only takes seconds for this to register in our sub conscious).

If we find the person to be attractive we are naturally open to forming an emotional connection with this person. We are open to talking to them, getting to know them, flirting etc. We see them as a potential mate.

However if we do not find the person to be attractive then we are not open to forming an emotional connection etc. We see the person on a friendly basis. Friendship Only.

So if a person tries to connect with someone who finds them attractive then they have a greater chance of connecting with that person.

If a person tries to connect with someone who does not find them attractive then they will receive negative responses or rejection from the person who does not find them attractive.

So if an unattractive person wants to connect to an attractive person then they must demonstrate a value to the other person, other than their looks. Ie: sense of humour, personality etc (in some cases money / status). Once this is demonstrated then the person may fall for them because of these other qualities.

However my question is this ? How can an unattractive person, Male or Female be in a position to demonstrate their positive personality traits to the attractive person they desire, if that person is not open to forming an emotional connection with them and sees them only on a friendship level.

If the perceived attractive person does not view the person as a potential mate on a conscious or sub conscious level then they are not open to communication and naturally inclined to look for a different person who they find attractive as their potential mate. Not the person who they do not view in that way.

((It would appear that the dating game - relationship success and emotional happiness are all subject to the body beautiful and appearance image. We all would like the attention and love of the super model or the hunk)).

onlineguy writes: "However my question is this ? How can an unattractive person, Male or Female be in a position to demonstrate their positive personality traits to the attractive person they desire, if that person is not open to forming an emotional connection with them and sees them only on a friendship level."
This is also known as the physical attraction test and may be the most superficial assessment in the 'mating' game. But it remains the gateway, nonetheless. The other one, for guys anyway, is to get a good look at her mother.

An interesting commentary on today's Dating Game comes from the pen of the greatest romantic writer of all time... Shakespeare.

"Kindness in women, not their beauteous looks, Shall win my love:"
The Taming of the Shrew
Act IV, Scene II

I agree that the physical attraction plays a huge part in the dating game, but superficiality can only get you so far...

I'm going to disagree with you, as its easy to assume, what attracts people together, but the truth is we never know, whom we are attracted to, and for what reason.

Such a nice line from Shakespeare; don't you think he was in a quiet place contemplating verse and meter? And not on the scene or in a pub? Where did people meet in his day?
onlineguy's post speaks of "In the first instances of meeting someone...." And that is why I used "gateway". Unless one is either blind or separated by distance upon meeting, the first impression (or onlineguy's words, "initial opinion") is pretty-much dictated by what one sees.

It's the science of love. Think about it this way... you ever go to the mall... at a restaurant... or wherever you are, and you see a stunning woman (or man) and you think, wow... she/he's gorgeous. Then suddenly, you see the guy/girl next to them and you think, HOW THE..?

... you never know.

I think Shakespeare struck on a truth... The truth that looks aren't everything.

He also lived in a time of literary correspondence. Literary correspondence in which people got to know one another through lines of poetry rather than over the rim of a cosmo.

I'm not saying either method is more superior to the other, but I think we as 21st century relationship seekers/finders/upholders would stand to benefit from a little more Shakespeare and a little less Long Island Ice Tea.

:D That's just my opinion... yes... I'm a hopeless romantic!

Interesting Replies Guys

So for a naturally attractive person the dating game holds many opportunities.

But for a naturally less attractive person the dating game and future relationships hold fewer opportunities.
Their greatest chance of meeting someone is not pubs, clubs where they are judged on appearance first and dismissed without being given a chance to show their personality but by working with attractive people so their personality can show through.

I'm going to make an assertion that physical appearance is not be the key component of attraction. I think it is obviously over valued in today's society. Some people are attracted to the sound of another's voice, their actions, or their life style.

There are people who are not into looks, but are attracted by those other qualities.

I think the type of person who is attracted by those other qualities would be more desirable to have a relationship with. When your looks fade, your other qualities will still be there for you.

Granted, if you have the looks, then you have one more potential tool for successful attraction given that it takes different strokes for different folks.

A big problem with the visual factor of attraction is that what you see is not always what you get.

I can agree with almost all, but edited several words: "Granted, if you have the looks, then you have a tool for more opportunities given that it takes different strokes for different folks."

I was with a Good Looking girl whom I loved but she had a stinking attitude which I could not live with. So I ended the relationship and thought I would find another good looking girl with a nice attitude, but this did not happen and I suffered rejection and loneliness. This caused me to feel low and down and I therefore wanted the ex girlfriend. But she had already moved on to another.

However I did not realise that I am not as attractive as I once thought I was!!

I have since continued to not find another girlfriend and therefore, I now miss her terribly and it feels like I have lost the love of my life. When in actual fact it is the love of a good looking girlfriend with a nice attitude that I miss.

But this constant failure is making me feel severely depressed, and this loneliness is making me miss being with someone. Therefore all I think about now is her and the good times and I now can't remember the bad times or how bad the attitude was that drove me away.. Few years ago now.

This is really causing me pain and driving me insane, I don’t know how to deal with these feelings ….. Or how to continue on this lonely road. Oh I could make do with someone I do not find attractive just for company. But then if I was to make do then I should have stuck it out with the ex who I liked 90% of everything about her, except for her attitude which is a fundamental part of her personality!!

I can't even go back, the girl married and moved away years ago.

Help! I am so mixed up……

Hello again guy, sorry to hear about your problems coping with rejection. May I suggest an honest look at your own attitude, and choices, to point you in a direction of self improvement?

Your entire post gives evidence to the standards you put on others, and to be honest sounds very shallow. To find a good healthy partner, you yourself must be a good healthy partner, and basing that on looks, might not be the way to go.

I suggest friendly interaction, and knowing the person, and letting the person know you, a better idea, than the superficial method your using now.
Good luck!

I wouldn't take you not find a new girlfriend yet that meets your standards personally. It's not a reflection on you completely, part of that is just the randomness of the universe.

That's why you need to waste VERY LITTLE TIME being mopey and self-critical, and just stay out there.

If your list has "good looks" on it NEAR THE TOP, then that might need to come off completely for awhile. You don't fully realize this, but beauty is subjective. Think about it... you broke up with your previous good looking g/f because her personality was ugly, overall resulting in her being ugly.

You MUST realize the opposite is true as well... dating people or hanging out with nice, selfless, productive and giving people will MAKE them more attractive to you overall.

Just get out there, find some giving environments to meet people, probably places you haven't tried yet.

Stuck in a vicious circle now, see a woman I find attractive, either let my feelings know or ask her out - get rejected, confidence and self esteem knocked - feel depressed over the rejection and miss the ex partner who's value is now as high as when I was originally in love with her!! This is insane, I can't deal with this anymore ! My depression is getting severe as well as my value reversal.

All I can think about is the ex ! How **** up is that ! (Even have thoughts to contact her!! - Will never do that- ).

Can anyone help me through this ?

I would suggest seeing a therapist, depression is a terrible illness and almost impossible to overcome without professional help. The self esteem issues can be resolved by maybe working out a bit? I know after my break up, I felt a little down on myself, then I started going to the gym daily, and after awhile people were commenting how much better I got with my shape and health wise.