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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michelle0410
Ah! I see... Doh!
Thanks for all the comments, but here is a thing. You say not to give up, which is fair enough but if :
Your not receiving indications of interest back should you stop.
If she goes with someone else whilst your trying to win her over (so to speak) should you stop.
It feels like a very fine line between liking her, pursuing her or making a fool of yourself, no one wants to make a fool of themselves.
When you say you are pursuing her, have you told her that you are interested in her or are you just sitting back and waiting for her to tell you she likes you?Quote:
Originally Posted by onlineguy
I know you don't want to make a fool of yourself, maybe she assumes you are just frineds and has no idea about your feelings for her, sometimes we are blind to things like that. You don't want to stalk her but of course if she is not intrested you don't want to make things awkward and you odn't want to mess up the friendship, so just use your best judgement, if she blows it off the first time you bring it up, stay her friend but don't give up until you honestly believe that there sin't a chance for you to be together, then move on...
Yes because then you become that weird stalker guyQuote:
Originally Posted by onlineguy
Yes. Because then she is not interested in you she is interested in the person she is dating and you should never try to break up a couplingQuote:
Originally Posted by onlineguy
If she does any of the above then move on. If she is not responsive to you then she is not interested. If she has a boyfriend move on.Quote:
Originally Posted by onlineguy
U are not a fool OG, the ones that have never tried are!:)
There is really nothing you can do expect for asking her out again. ( no more then 3 times)
If she doesn't tell you what on earth is going on with her, do u have any chance.
She is too complicated then, unless you like to keep the mind game.
If I were you, I will problly drop my interest on her.
If she tells you eventually, she would like to go out with you then that's is perfect!:)
As a man I want a woman who has certain qualities of taking pride in her appearance, making and effort to look good, a good friendly personality and who is interested in me. --- If she demonstrates these qualities of value to me then you will want her.
If she does not demonstrate these qualities then I do not want her.. She is not of value.
Therefor I look for someone who is demonstrating these qualities. That is what I look for in a mate.
The girl who demonstrates these qualities the most is who I will chose.
=========
A Woman wants a man who has certain qualities. If He demonstrates these qualities of value to her then she will want him.
If he does not demonstrate these qualities then she will not want him.. He is not of value.
She looks for someone who is demonstrating these qualities. That is what she looks for in a mate.
The Man who demonstrates these qualities the most is who she will chose.
======
My question is this.
For me to chose a woman I need her to display these qualities of value to me, but women do not do this. (initaite)
Instead they wait for men to Initaite and display these qualities of value that she wants. (Hence pick up artists !). (Jerks etc).
What is it that makes the woman more of value than the man ? We both want fundementally the same things. So why does a man have to do the initiating? Why is it not equal - women generally don't do it.
The only thing I can think of (theory I have) is that men are more visual than women and go for looks as a quality of value above personality as a quality of value (initially) so they have a desire to initaite and be interested in a good looking woman.
Whereas women go for attractive personality qualities of value, over looks first and therefore will only initiate or be interested once they have recognised these personality qualities of value.
---- Therefore if a guy does not initaite and display these personality qualities of value that she likes (Peacocking) she will have no interest in him. Because his appearance is not a priority. Even if he is really the most suitable partner for her.
Therefore if this theory is correct that is why women do not have time for shy guys ! And prefer Guys who are able to demonstrate these qualities of value. Even if the guy is one for sleeping around or is giving her a lot of bull to sleep with her.
(Most guys look at this situation with disbelief ! They know the guy is using her for just sex and that the shy guy is really into her and they cannot understand why she choses not to see this and then complains about being used).
What are your thoughts on this. Girls as well as guys
Does this theory make sense and is there some evolutionary aspect of this.
Fertile woman = looks Stable provider = personality traits.!
Men iniate with women based on her looks, because instinctivly the better looking the more fertile.
Whereas women appear to go for the attraction to the personality traits in men above the physical attributes. And don't initate or show interest until these personality traits have been demonstrated to her by the man.
If that is the case, then why is that ? Or is it a case of women will simply go for the man who shows her the most interest and attention.
Isn't this basically the same question you asked in your previous post?
You realize (hopefully) that the question(s) themselves are not accurate? You can't summarize the actions of either sex so simply?
Don't fully understand the question but because way back when the stronger fitter males survived and were the bread winners, I think it's a instinct in women to look for the top dog to provid healthy kids and a stable life (i.e. good income, a good provider, protection) and men do the same to women the better they look I guess they think we could bear kids and take better care of them cook better please better in bed etc... is that close to the question you were asking?
If a women fancies the person then they will go for them! Same with men.. Surely no/
Not if they have some already
Ahh this is true! Unless... they are serial cheater! < BAD person
The reason is that for a long time women were considered the property of men. When you go the store to buy a toaster you don't let the toaster pick who it goes home with*. So it was never proper for the women to choose the man because of this and despite huge advances in women's right we still have elements of claiming women as property in our culture.
*Disclaimer: I don't feel women are property or a toaster. Just trying to explain what how things were.
True or if there are interrelationship issues or they may not cheat they could swing or 3- sum, a women will not always go for the hunk now a days he is perceived to be the arrogent, self centered, arse hole, and stuck up women are high needs if they are even remotly pretty
I know some woman who would make great toasters!
I feel that the big thing, is for people to hook up, and HAVE some one, and sometimes, we don't take the time to make a good choice, or we move to fast making the choice we made, the ONE, without taking the time to really find out. Some times we convince ourselves of having more than what is really there, and get so hurt when we find out the truth. Most of us screw up early, just because of experience, and that sucks as we learn about our feelings and the feelings of others. Too often we have preconceived notions of what we want, and make all kinds of demands, and have such high expectations we put on others, and have no clue, when they can't meet the standards we set for them. Men chase and women are chased, is what society teaches, and we catch hell trying to figure out the right way to do things. There is nothing in stone, so the best way is do the best you can, and try to be happy with the results. If not, don't be afraid to try it again.
There is no such thing as a cut and dried answer for humans and there feelings.
Sure we can be initially attracted someone because of how they look but as we get to know people those feelings can change. I know if I meet an attractive man and as I get to know him I see that he is unintelligent or mean or has any myriad of negative personality traits that person becomes significantly less attractive. I would imagine for men it would be the same. I couldn't see a man staying with a stupid, racist, mean women just because she was attractive.
You can never speak in generalities when it comes to explaining human behavior. Unfortunately we are not so simple.
Yes, do you best anyway. U do it for yourself, not for the woman.
w00t go complex
Quote:
Originally Posted by michealb
There are some very good replies here and I agree with all of them, but it would appear to me that woman's selection process is flawed !
By this I mean. I woman has pressure on her to look good to attract the attention of men. However when I put myself in a position of wanting a mate for other than sex, i.e. relationship, family etc then the conclusion I come to is that I want to get to know a person to see if that person has the qualities that I need / seek in a mate. Therefore the common sense, natural thing is to look around from the 1000 of women and select those that appear to have the qualities I seek, then initiate communication and check if that is the case before entering into a relationship.
However women do not do this. Instead a woman will make her self look good so she will attract the attention of males. She will not initaite connections/ communicaition with suitable males. Now males are attracted to physical appearance and have the desire to sow their seeds. So males who are interested in the girl just for sex will say anything she want to here to get into her pants, then they are gone.
However a guy who is genuinly interested in her will not just say anything to get into her pants and therefore she will actually dismiss him because he does not meet her selection process.
Your thinking way too much about things.
Gee online, if a guy is interested and says nothing he gets nothing. Females cannot read minds, so if you don't let them know of your interest how are they supposed to act, they sure can't start interviews can they? The one thing you left out is the fact that females like to be attractive and love the prospect of males coming to her and the final decision is hers. That's the point to keep the final say in her court, so a guy has to come with it or stay home.
Time have changed - PLENTY!
Have A Random Sight Gag
There was once a day when women were considered more servants than partners in life. I think we've evolved.
I think that's a pretty bold statement that women sit around like peacocks waiting to be picked off. I personally find that extremely offensive that you believe that women think they should have nothing going on other then looking hot.
Our outsides are what attract us to someone. Women are the same as men. If we see someone who is attractive we will want to talk to them to see if they meet our standards. People don't walk around with a sandwich board that says "I'm funny, smart and sensitive". The truth is that if your face looks like a foot chances are a woman isn't going to see all the wonderful things about you through a glance. Yes maybe if a woman met a man and became friends with him she'd find him more attractive but I imagine the same thing happens with men.
Again. You cannot speak in generalities when it comes to human behavior.
I agree with Onlineguy's theory, it really gets to me when I'm out I get girls looking over but I don't make the move, I'm too shy and it does my head in.. I don't know what to say to start the conversation with someone I don't know and fancy as well, I'm too scared of making a bum of myself... I need to be more forward and I bet you next weeknd I do the same thing... "GIRL LOOKING OVER THINK SHE LIKES ME I DONT DO ANY THONG ARRRRRRGHHHHH LOL"
The man who catches MY attention is the one says" You are so kind/intelligent" instead of "You are hot/attractive".
Again as Glinda has mentioned we can't speak in generalities when it comes to human behavior.
Yup. That kind of thing is a definite turn off. I think most women would prefer to be treated as people instead of sex organs in high heels.Quote:
Originally Posted by nicespringgirl
Quote:
Originally Posted by GlindaofOz
Now isn't this a contadiction ! And you wonder why we say that we cannot figure you guys out. I mean
To attract a man you go out looking like a sex organ in high heels instead of (initiating) talking to a guy and getting to know him. Taking charge of the process.
So a girl looks like a sex organ in high heels, men are naturally looking to sow there oats and they see a girl looking like a sex organ in high heels, so he rationalises if this person was not looking for sex she would not be dressed / present herself in this mannor that clearly turns me and other guys on. The fact that she is presenting herself in a mannor that inidicates sex means she will atract the guys looking for sex ! Common Sense.
i.e. Women" dont look at my breasts when you talk to me", but I will still wear a revealing low cut top that will show my cleavage which I know is a erotic turn on for men... All men.
Alternative. If I wear an ordinary sweater that does not highlight my sexual organs then men will not look at my sexual organs.. Common Sense. If a guy walks up to you with a g string on and no pants you will look ! Its natural, you know it, I know it everyone knows it. If you don't want to be seen in a sexual way don't present yourself in a sexual way. Common sense.
So if you want to meet a man who does not view you as a sexual object 1. don't present yourself as one. 2. Make an effort to get to know these men.. . Oh but I forget, your saying this but you class these men as Geeks and the guys who view you as a sex object as Alpha Males and go with them anyway !
Please Please Please, do and say what you mean. It would be so much simpler. And yes I know a woman should be able to wear clothes that make her feel sexy, all for that. I should be able to wear crothchless underpants when I go out and women should not look.
Your not going to not look though are you !
How does a guy start a conversation with a stranger then without coming across like this, the las thing I want to di is go up to a females and be sleazy... I isn't got a clue how to start the conversation, something stupid always comes out??Quote:
Originally Posted by nicespringgirl
Tyne26, very good question.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyne26
I will try my best to give you a detailed list on that:
Ask her about herself, her ambitions, her life. Be interested. It's a rare woman who wants to sit around all night listening to a man talk about himself. And the more you try to impress her with your tales of adventure, the less impressed she'll be.
Be presentable. Women are notorious accessorizers, and whether she'll admit it to you or not, you are an accessory. Other women will judge her on her choice. A clean, good-smelling man with well-fitting clothes is a real prize.
Make eye contact. A lot. And smile - in a friendly way. Don't leer.
Be a gentleman. It's a myth that chivalry is dead, right? There are just a few women out there messing it up for the rest of us who really do like to have doors held open for us.
Be funny without being crude. It's an art.
Compliment her. Notice her shoes or her watch - something that shows you're paying attention. We'll change our clothes six times before we leave the house; it's nice to find someone who appreciates the final choice.
It's hard for a woman not to be impressed with a man who is impressed with her. If you really like her, tell her so. You don't have to make a big deal about it, just let her know you admire her.
Warnings
Don't stare at her - or other women. ;)
I hope this will help you but again we can't generalize human behavior, each woman is a little bit different. Some of them are just that hard to get, they might have high standards at their age when they are young... please undertand them:D
Hello.
I can agree with many of your ideas if your picking ladies up in bars or clubs but if your meeting ladies in a real life places you can tell the ones that enjoy life and feel good about who they are. It shows in the way they walk and talk not just by how they dress. If looking sexy to attract a Man as in bars or clubs is all they have to do then all a Lady has to do is wear a low cut top and short skirt and she can have any man she wants... WAIT that does work hehehe maybe it comes back to the fact Men after puberty think with their lower head as soon as they see a low cut top or short skirt and the upper head goes blank hehehe.
OK back to reality. I think you need to find your Ladies in real places and stop looking at the local sex displays. Sure at clubs the Ladies dress sexy and they do show off what they have and want the Men to beg a little before they will pay any attention to them. It's a game but not a real life game it's the club game. If your not into the game find a new one but the drinking and sex games have been going on as long as Man has been on the earth.
Dennis777
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicespringgirl
You make good point which I will take on board... At the weekend I go to nighclubs socialising with friends, yes we can talk to a lady about these things you mentioned but I can't just walk upo and say "tell me about yourself" lol its how to appraoch them and what your first question should be is what I struggle with??
EXCUSE ME? I do not go out looking like a whore and yet you presume that I do so. I am saying that the OP was presumed that are all empty headed pretty dolls and that is an unfair statement. YOU do not know who I date or how I behave when I got out. Some men dress like tramps and become angry when men treat them the way they dress. I however do not go to bars to get picked up and yes I approach men and start conversations with them without looking like a prostitute.Quote:
Originally Posted by 4answers
AGAIN NO GENERALITIES HERE. You don't see me saying that men only think with their peckers and are incapable of having a legitimate relationship.
Don't take your frustrations of being a substandard human being on women
Hello Tyne:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyne26
Try to say something that will draw out details about her. "Your friends seem nice--how did you get to know them?" is a compliment and a window into her past. Forming a bond will release dopamine, a mood booster in her brain.
Another crucial conversation tip: Talk at the same pace she does and she'll consider you intelligent, kind, con-fident, and ambitious.
The good ladies you are looking for are not in bars or clubs, they are busy working and wondering where their Mr. Right will show up. So my suggestion is only to help you talk the right lady. It's your choice who you want to talk to, but be wise who you want to talk to!:)
Good luck:)
First off Tyne you have to be comfortable and make them feel comfortable and a good way is to learn in real life with real females and to start get in the habit of speaking to everyone you have eye contact with. A smile, and a simple hello, how are you, will get you into the habit of greeting strangers and speaking to those you come in contact with at stores and banks and places of business, will give you some practice at the people skills necessary to approach any one in an easy comfortable fashion. Eye contact will take you far, so don't waiver or look away and smile.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GlindaofOz
Hi GlindaofOz. Like all the post on here, none are meant as a personal attack against a person, if you feel that then please accept my apology. This is a different and valid point of view in exactly the same way yours is.
It would appear that the signals women give out are not the signals men interpret.
It's just that no one can speak in generalities. Its not fair. If something does not apply to everyone then do not apply it to everyone. That's all I'm saying. Its offensive to women who do not appear like that to be treated that way. Too many men walk around with the opinion that all women are cold hearted ball busters who dress like tramps and act like a tease.
I'll let the guys answer that one. Lol
Guys that don't want to get in girls pants aren't considered pick up artists in my opinion...
As individuals we can sometimes only consider how certain situations affect our emotions and don't look at how it affects others. Also because we don't want to show our lonliness and heartbreak to the world we put on a mask / shield / act that everything is OK.
As we grow up we realise that this is not just us but everyone does the same.
Here is a thought: In looking for a partner and being rejected it makes us feel bad due to the negative feelings.
In being dumped it makes us feel bad due to the negative feelings.
Now in both these curcumstances we are caught up in our own emotions and sometimes do not look at the emotions of the other person involved.
Now the person who rejects someone or dumps someone is / or appears to be on the emotional higher ground. And yet sometimes when the rejected or the dumper moves on and finds another the Rejector / Dumper can feel a sense or regret, jeolosy or loss.
So when a relationship ends or you are rejected try to act like you were the person who rejected or dumped. = Higher emotional ground. You may be hurting in hell like side, but don't give them the satisfaction and arrogance that they have hurt you. Much better to let them think F*** what have I done... This helps you to heal ! And lets face it, since the rejection was from them and they don't care about you, then why care about them anymore. They do not deserve your caring or love, only someone who genuinly appreciates you does...
Never let them see you cry ! Always leave on the emotional higher ground. Let them do the regret ! (Or at least let them think it)
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